Clearing equipment at the plate..
 

Just curious......What is your opinion about clearing away equipment (bat, catcher's mask) when there is a potential play at the plate? Is it the on-deck batter's job? Does the level of play and age of players enter into your decision? Do you always do it? Never do it?

My college coach taught his catchers to toss their mask about five feet up the 3B line, so that incoming runners would have to avoid it during their slide.
It's been a few years since I've been on the field, but I do not remember ever clearing away equipment. If I did, I just don't remember.

I was taught that if the bat is in the way (of the runner coming home), and I have the time, to clear it. Your plays always come first. If I have no play and I'm just waiting for the ball and runner to arrive, I give it a "foot wedge" scoop kick, while keeping my eyes on the baseball. I don't bend over to pick it up. If I don't have the time, I just tell the runner to "watch out for the bat," if there is no play on the runner.

I always do it if its in the way. If i have time to that is... :o

what an idiot coach

That coach must have lost a lot of games.

But even if he had a 100% winning record...

WHAT A LOSER !

Yeah, it gotta be one hellava detour to slide around one of them there hockey type masks. Especially with some of the big ole' noggins some of dem ole' back catchers got. Right ma. Right pa.

does it need to be cleared out of there? i.e. is it in the way?

is it within your reach?

is it possible for you to clear it out of the way without infringing upon any of your other responsibilities?

if you answer "no" to any of these questions, leave it there. if you have three yeses, clear it out of there.

They actually taught at the UDP (PBUC) camp to clear the bat away if you had time. We were taught to bend over (while keeping our head up to see the action on the field), and with our right hand (since our mask is in our left hand!) slide the bat between our legs. In otherwords, like a football center, we "snapped" the bat between our legs, only instead of snapping it up into a quarterback's hands, we just lift it a few inches off the ground and give in a little chuck backwards. (Note I said "a little chuck". That is: enough to get it out of the way, but not enough that it goes flying into a dugout or on-deck circle.)

Personally, I think its kind of cool when a batter hits an easy stand-up extra-base hit and an R2 or R3 is able to trot home, to pick up the bat, if its in the way, and hand it to the runner as they trot by to score.

Of course, I have to be absolutely sure that the runner is going to make it home trotting...I've never seen it, nor have I ever come close, but it would be awful to have a runner slow up to take the bat from me (or any home plate umpire) only to have him thrown out at the plate.

I don't know, maybe that is an advanced mechanic and I shouldn't do it, but I do. If y'all want to get all over me, that's fine.

Just as Rich posted elsewhere that he's not a groundskeeper, I am not a bat-boy. Unless the bat is right on the line and there is time to clear it, I never touch a bat. It's a pet peeve of mine to see umpires playing bat boy, picking up bats and taking them over to the dugout after an inning change, and the like.

If a catcher is deliberately placing his headgear on or in front of the plate, I will kick it out of the way. Hard. To the backstop. I've never had to do it more than once in a game.

Say there is less than two outs and a runner on third. Easy ground ball to the shortstop. The catcher throws his mask up the third baseline a few feet. Runner comes home, throw comes home, runner has to dodge the headgear. Could interference be called on the catcher?

~Sigh~
 

Many, many great coaches (managers) have taught catchers to toss thier mask into the base line hoping to cause a runner to break stride. Does it work? Doubtful.

I am firmly behind clearing the bat. If done correctly it is a simple task that allows the UMPIRE less to worry about during a play at the plate.

Rich and Dave have continued their position consistently over the years and I respect that -- when you go to a professional umpire school you're trained and expected to clear the bat -- after awhile it simply becomes second nature.

I would never consider "even thinking" of attaching a penalty to the placement of a mask . . . it would make me rival Kreskin in knowing the "intent" of F2.

Regards,

Very true.

I always clear the bat if there is time.

When clearing a bat, make every attempt to use lawump's method. As an extra, try to grasp the barrel when sliding the bat away as the bat will be less likely to flip into the air.

I am with Dave on becoming a bat boy as well. After the third out of a half inning, I get up the line and stay there. I try to stay as far away from the dugouts as possible, taking a bat over there seems like it would only invite comments from the rats.

Three things to consider when or if you're going to clear the bat:

Is is Necessary?

Is it Accessible?

Is it Possible?

The acronym (sp?) is N.A.P.

As far as actually clearing it, law ump described it best, although we just slide it on the side of our body rather than through our legs.

I will only move a bat if I am in the vicinity. If the bat is up the line and I need to be TBLE then forget it - not my job! If I do move it, I just slide it with my foot into foul territory as far as I can. Why my foot? I just don't feel like bending over! But in most cases, the catcher keeps his "house" clean!

I also, am not a bat boy between innings. To be honest, the only time that I touch the equipment (other than the baseballs) is to pick up the catcher's mask if I am near it. He protects me so I don't mind picking up his mask.

For all the folks after this original post, I do clear the bat when possible and necessary. Dave was making an analogy to my comment about replacing bases.

Once I picked up the bat and had it in my hand as the play at the plate happened quickly. I watched the play, tossed the bat, and punched the runner out. Way cool.

I can't remember the last time I didn't have time to clear a bat that is clearly in the way of a runner. If not in the way I don't worry about it.

I always taught my catchers (including my two sons) to wear their mask on plays at the plate. Why remove your face protection? Someone might want to run into you. The only time to take it off is on popups then hold it in your hand until the ball is located and toss it away from the direction you have to go to get the popup.

1. "Catch - he might be coming, kick that bat outta there."

2. "Catch - Get that bat out of your way."

3. Watch the on deck batter clear it.

4. Use the side of your foot and PUSH it out of the way - that way you aren't bending down and can keep your head up. (The way I was taught in school.)

5. Forget about it - it's not your job to clear the bat! R3 and a high hopper to F4 - runner is off on contact and he is going to have to slide through the bat to get to the plate. Do you have time? No way, Jose...
Coach - Hey, Blue you gotta get that bat outta the way.
Me - Why?
Coach - Ain't no way he can be safe with it laying there.
Me - Okay.
Coach - So, what are you gonna do about it?
Me - (as I'm dusting the dish off)
I'll show up at your next practice and teach your batters where to
toss their bats. I get $60 an hour and I only take cash.

If you want to bend over, go ahead, but even the Big Dogs don't pick up bats any more. They use the foot wedge when the on-deck or bat boy is sleeping or when time demands. That is another reason we wear steel toed shoes.

By the way, if a catcher tosses his mask/HSM up the baseline, ignore it the first time. When he gets back to his position and there is no batter around, tell him to knock it off. If he does it again and you have time (and the inclination to piss off the guy protecting you from that fastball) kick it out of the way, but do it hard. He'll get the picture and enough people will see what is happening to prevent a s-storm from occurring.

If the bat is in the way and I have time, I will pick it up and hold it. Usually there will be no play at the plate, and I will hand it to the next batter or the guy who is scoring (with no play). If a play develops, I will toss the bat out of everyone's way - not very far, just out of the way.
I don't like kicking it because it can scuff my (very expensive!) plate shoes. If I'm going to expend the energy to pick it up, and I hold onto it, it lessens my chances of plunking someone with it. That darn liability thing...

JJ

Good to hear from you JJ - hope your enjoying your summer!

I guess I'll never understand why an umpire feels the need to do this. If there is no play at the plate, you don't need to remove the bat!!!

If a play develops and you are compelled to clear it because the catcher can't or won't, you should remember rule number one of umpiring - don't take your eyes off of the ball! Your foot wedge is the most competent tool for this because you don't have to look down, even for an instant. While you may scuff your shoes, it is far better than being hit by a thrown ball or lose sight of the play because you want to look like a bat boy. I don't believe anyone suggested picking it up and "plunking" someone with it, but we've all had our moments. Use whatever works for you; an umpire holding a bat while the ball is live just makes him/her look like a novice though.

Mmmmm,
 

"If a play develops and you are compelled to clear it because the catcher can't or won't, you should remember rule number one of umpiring - don't take your eyes off of the ball! Your foot wedge is the most competent tool for this because you don't have to look down, even for an instant. While you may scuff your shoes, it is far better than being hit by a thrown ball or lose sight of the play because you want to look like a bat boy. I don't believe anyone suggested picking it up and "plunking" someone with it, but we've all had our moments. Use whatever works for you; an umpire holding a bat while the ball is live just makes him/her look like a novice though."

I couldn't possible disagree with you more.

Regards,

:D :D Ha Ha Ha :D :D I can just picture an umpire holding the bat in his right hand and OMG here comes the throw. The umpire goes to punch out the runner and clocks him with the bat! :D :D Ha Ha Ha :D :D

Moral of the story - leave the damn bat alone!

Which part was that -

"...don't take your eyes off the ball!"?

"...anyone suggested picking it up and 'plunking' someone with it..."?

"...Use whatever works for you..."?

"holding a bat while the ball is live makes him/her look like a novice..."?

Which professional school taught you that it was acceptable to handle playing equipment during live ball conditions?

I was taught to watch the ball - except on foul pop ups - and use my foot to 'push' the bat out of the way. I've watched more MLB games that I can recount and cannot recall a PU holding a bat during live action. Those are the gentlemen that I consider professional role models. But as I wrote, if you feel compelled to glance away from playing action in order to do the bat boy or on deck batter's job, have fun. If you dress like a professional umpire you may want to try to perform like one. That wasn't personal, as I'm sure you are competent. They are simply words that most rookies learn at school. Good night.

He's Baaaaccccckkkkkk! chuckle, chuckle.

Could not agree more! Being a long-time golfer-turned-hacker, I'm very familiar with how to use the foot wedge!!!:D

Sorry
 

WWTB noted:

"Use whatever works for you; an umpire holding a bat while the ball is live just makes him/her look like a novice though."

Ozzy wrote:

"I can just picture an umpire holding the bat in his right hand and OMG here comes the throw."

Last night while I was tooling around I went to SportsCenter and watched highlights from last nights games.

In the Twins game:

r2 and a single to center. As r2 scored the highlight showed PU Paul Schrieber holding the bat in his hand. As r2 scored he handed the bat to the runner.

ANY umpire can clear a bat the "correct" way and should (if at all possible). Your eyes NEVER leave the ball if you simply squat like a catcher with the bat on the ground between your legs -- with your chin "up" and eyes on the ball you reach down, without looking, grab the bat and slide it backwards between your legs (somewhat like a center snap that never leaves the ground).

This is how it was taught at professional umpire school in the "good old days" and is evident if you watch the senior umpires at the MLB level.

WWTB sorry that I did not identify the exact statement that I took such umbrage too.

Regards,

It's still taught this way at pro school, as Tee knows.

I would emphasize that pro instruction is to clear the bat only when doing so won't interfere with your duties. Clearing the bat is a courtesy, and as such low priority.

I doubt, btw, that you'll ever see a MLB PU holding the bat during a play at the plate. The play Tee describes was a routine scoring chance with no play imminent.

We all know that MLB is not always the best place to go for our mechanics...

I've seen a ML umpire with a bat in his hand during a play at the plate. He watched the play, tossed the bat the the side, and punched the runner out.

It's amazing how much we argue over trivial things. I move the bat if I have a chance and deem it necessary. Big deal -- nobody's watching me at that point anyway.

Point taken...

If you feel the need to do the player's or bat boy's job, have fun doing it.

If you don't remove the bat and the player slides into it, then what? NOTHING!!!

You are not charged with or mandated to provide a safe, obstruction free playing environment while playing action occurs. The bat was put there by a member of the offensive team. If it impedes his teammate, so be it. If the throw is deflected off of it, so be it - that's baseball. What happens when you pick it up, slide it back and the off line throw now hits it and deflects into the dugout? What if the on deck batter isn't looking and you slide it back, he steps on it and breaks an ankle? C'mon...you guys should know better than this.

KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THE PLAYING EQUIPMENT DURING LIVE BALL ACTION!

BTW, as it was described by T. was not how it was taught at B-F years ago. We were shown the foot wedge - and only when necessary. Both of those guys still subscribe to that mechanic and they are responsible for a whole legion of professional umpires. Maybe Evans and Wendlestedt are teaching the bend and reach...how come Hunter doesn't do it then? Neither did his father.

I believe ..................................
 

If the opportunity presents itself to move equipment, then do it.

If it doesn't, then don't.

Am I missing something ?





Doug

Unless you are working a beeping ball league, there is no reason to do it.

Even at the youth instructional level, you should not concern yourself with equipment during live ball action. There simply is too much going on - in the case cited, a player easily scoring from second on an outfield hit, why would you feel compelled to pick it up and hand it to him? Brownie points??? A secret desire to be loved by bat boys worldwide???

Read my last post.

For those who insist that they saw a MLB umpire once do this, I believe that they also said a member of that same group once called an out with the wrong hand. What is it they say about two wrongs...?

Hahaha
 

WWTB post says it all:

I now know how he umpires.

Regards

Interference? No, but you've got a heck of a case for obstruction.

As for clearing the bat, I'll say what the rest of you won't. Many umpires can't clear the bat because they're unable to bend over to do so. Case in point: Just watch some of the blimps working the Little League World Series. We sometimes forget that baseball is an athletic event. And the fact that some of these rotund fellows are tilting the field, well, you might was well put a Pall Mall in their mouth and set them up in a Barkalounger. Mix in a West Vest Gold, and there's no way on Earth that these guys are seeing a bat, much less picking it up off the ground.

I suspect that's the reason some here won't stoop to being a "grounds keeper" or "bat boy". They can't stoop.

Wow!
 

Hooray for kylejet!

Regards,

Apparently when you can't argue the point well, you need to take a cheap shot...okay T., you win.

I thought that the purpose of our beloved board was to impart knowledge and correct mistakes. T. seems to take great pride in his journalistic abilities, so I suggest a column is in order. The title "Doing the Batboy's Job" seems appropriate. I've provided the counterpoint already...what happens when you don't choose to remove a bat from the field of play? As all of us know, 'nothing' would be the correct answer. Picking up a bat when it is of no consequence, just smacks of brown nosing. Maybe you can tell us all what the penalty would be if the umpire moves the bat out of the way, only to have the ball deflect off of its new position and out of play. You could follow it up with a query about legal coverage when you slide the bat out of the runner's way, only to have the on deck batter trip on it and break his ankle; ahhh, that would be splendid reading indeed.

I never questioned what level of ball he works or how he umpires. On the contrary, I complimented him and stated that I know him to be competent. At the level of ball I work, I can ask the catcher to move the bat if it poses a problem for him or ignore it. At youth ball, you may not have that luxury and may feel the need to create more liability for yourself by handling playing equipment during a live ball situation. You know what? That would be a great summary...how do I get insurance for acting recklessly?

I have friends at the two major schools and they don't teach the umpire to do the bat boy's job. They also don't instruct umpire's to pick up the catcher's mask. Do you do that too?

I thought we were talking about clearing a bat with a potential play on. If I have an opportunity to do so, I'll do it. And yes, if a catcher is fetching a foul ball at the backstop, I'll bend over, make the effort, and hand him his mask. After all, he is my new best friend. Would I teach that? Probably not. But I do it though.

On deck hitters retrieve balls at the backstop. First time a catcher tries to get one, I'll stop him and tell him he works too hard to be chasing foul balls. Then I'll make sure the on deck hitter gets it.

But I will agree with one thing you said. On a routine grounder, I'll trail up to the 45 foot line and will grab the catcher's mask on my way back to the plate and toss it to him.

It really doesn't matter if the play is imminent or not. Actually, I'll rephrase that for clarity - if the play is imminent, GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS SO YOU CAN MAKE YOUR CALL.

At some point in your careers you'll realize that while you can be friendly towards the catcher, being friends with him is never a good idea. Perception is everything when you are trying to be considered impartial. If you pick up a mask for one catcher, you now have to make every attempt to even it up and that is never a good idea for an umpire.

Come on...what is the point of picking up a bat when it isn't in the way? If it is in the way, the rule book covers what to do if the ball is deflected off of it. Are you worried about a runner sliding into it at the dish? Unless you are doing small ball, who cares? His teammate put it there and on an imminent play you don't have time to worry about stuff like that. Did the umpire grab Dusty Baker's kid during the playoffs a few years ago...no, he left it to the team and that was a hell of a lot more dangerous.

We've all laughed at the video of the small ball Smitty who manhandles the toddler who strolls to near the dish when a play is imminent. KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THE PLAYING EQUIPMENT AND PLAYERS WHEN THE BALL IS ALIVE. The liability is simply too great and perception is everything!

Right, I think we've got it now: WWTB says clearing the bat ahead of a play at the plate is unnecessary, distracting, and wrong, whereas pro instruction is to clear the bat when there's the need, ability, and possibility to do so.

That should do it.

Hey,
 

WWTB:

No cheap shot was intended.

I meant exactly what I said:

You are a "nuts & bolts" umpire that concentrates specifically on the job of umpiring.

NO batboy will enter the play area during a play in my game. Therefore this is NOT a "batboy" issue. This is, and has always been, about clearing the bat that lies in the area of the plate.

I have no idea who you are talking with about the issue but the instructors at Evans all still teach to clear the bat.

As I noted in my original post "in the olden days" we were taught to squat and clear it through our legs. I don't make this crap up.

Regards,

That is one of the most asinine and totally bigoted things I've ever read. One out of 3 Americans are overweight.

I'm a stout fella myself. I have degenerated discs from L-2 to S-1 from a bad car wreck in 1981. I have a hard time bending, but I have no trouble reaching down to the ground to clear a bat, dust the plate, or pull weeds. Plus, I can run around a ball field just as quickly as a little skinny Nancy boy can. What you said is patently false. And I'm quite certain that any fat umpire can see just fine over his West Vest.

Big people can be athletic. Haven't you ever watched pro softball or the softball HR hitters that tour the country. These guys are very athletic. How about all the tubby pitchers in MLB. Bartolo Colon comes to mind, and there are many fatties at the F1 position all around the league.

I like what John Kruk once said, "Hey lady, I ain't no athlete, I'm a ball player."

Way too much emphasis is being placed on being thin in this society, all due to the ideal "Hollywood" perception of what a person should look like. There was a time in the not-too-distant past where a man of girth was considered handsome and even sexy. This was before the big push towards anorexia we have seen in the past 30 years.

I will say it again. I am sick of people taking cheap pot-shots at overweight people. It's the moral equivalent to making racist or anti-semitic comments, and should not be tolerated.

John Goodman, you ain't..........
 

So taking pot shots at skinny little Nancy boys isn't the moral equivalent to making racist or anti-Semitic comments.

Would that be one of the all time ASSinine and totally bigoted things you ever read.

What we have here is an OXy-MORON........Lose the weight or deal with it.

SDS, one of the dumbest posts ever. "Moral equivalent of racism" :rolleyes:


Just ridiculous.

Steve,

I consider you one of my allies on this board, so I hope you don't take offense to this reply to you're quote above.

I agree with you to a point that there is alot of emphasis placed on being thin in today's society. However, it's the reason that the emphasis is there that is the problem. What I mean to say is that people shouldn't try to lose weight in order to conform to what society deems is attractive or acceptable, instead, the goal of any diet or weight loss program should be overall health improvement.

Well, If you went around making racist comments, people would get offended. The last group that we are allowed to bash without drawing the ire of every liberal group in the country seems to be fat people. Why aren't they afforded the same tree-hugger asylum from bashing that all these other poor baby groups out there are?

Many fat folks can't lose weight, short of going on a regimen like on the TV show The Biggest Loser, a program which is cost prohibitive for the majority of people, as are low carb and low calorie foods. Some people cannot do the physical excersise necessary in combination with a healthy diet.

Skinny people think, "oh, just excersise and diet, and the pounds will just drop off." That is just not the case. It is far easier to add the fat than it is to burn it off. That is why people struggle with their weight. Their metabolisms have suddenly slowed to a crawl with middle age, and they are then asked to unlearn all of their eating habits they developed in early childhood. Losing weight is hard, not easy.

PWL, your post does prove you are an oxymoron, minus the oxy. Why don't you go clear the batter on your way down the 1st base line. Holler back to him that he'd better start running. Sheesh.

LMan, what can I say. They're not all pearls of wisdom.

Or a case of "Do as I say", not "Do as I do".:rolleyes:

It kinda looks like people get offended at homophobic comments too.

Pot...kettle...black.

Careful, JR. The Tupperware in the kitchen just started grumbling.....

LMan, I've been married 40 years. My wife has every damn piece of tupperware ever made, I think. I also think that she's even got a tupperware coffin hidden somewhere, just waiting for me to go.

Did you know that there's a <b>Tupperware Hall of Fame</b> down in Florida? It's true, it's true....

And, btw, I think that anybody who officiates any sport should never be racist, homophobic or any other "ic". It's impossible to call a game fairly. Jmo.

What homophobic remarks? Homophobic would by definition describe remarks made as a result of fear of homosexuals. On the contrary, many of my friends over my lifetime have been homosexuals, and I have a good grasp on what is considered an offensive remark. For example, the term "fag hag" refers to a woman who enjoys the company of homosexual males. It is not considered offensive in any way by the gay community.

Had I said, "I hate these damn fags," then that would have qualified as hate speech, and homophobic in nature, because the people who make those remarks think that homosexuals desire them in some way, and that they are in danger of being "converted." These neanderthals are truly homophobic.

The words "Queer" and "Fag" are used liberally by the members of the gay and lesbian community, and are not offensive by themselves, only in the context in which they are used.

One question: Do the Pot and the Kettle get offended by being called black?:confused:

What about "fat-ic?" Still open season, huh?

It's still open season on people who make "short bus" and "retard" remarks too. That would be you also iirc.

I'm sure that more of your "ics" show up also in your internet wanderings.

When exactly did you go to pro school? How many years were you assigned to MiLB? It always amazes me how many people 'know' what is taught at professional umpire school, but never actually had to impliment it as a professional. Having been to maybe a dozen MiLB games locally this past year (Kane, Schaumburg, Lightning), I can say that I've not witnesses one of the newbies picking up a bat. Maybe your experience is different and they pick up the catcher's mask too.

Once again...put your money where your mouth is...what happens if you don't act like a bat boy? NOTHING On the contrary, too many things can go wrong if you handle the equipment.

So, mbyron - it's time to put up or shut up. Tell us all about your vast experience and what you would call when the batter slides into the bat and is tagged out. Methinks that umpires who know how to handles coaches and situations aren't afraid of the coach who demands that I move the bat so his kid can slide or not trip on it. Methinks you may need to move the bat.

WWTB,

As a Coach, I certainly don't "expect" the umpire to clear the plate area of any loose equipment (bat, catcher's mask, etc.). And the notion of COMPLAINING to the umpire for his failure to do so strikes me as beyond ludicrous.

However, I have, from time to time, seen umpires clear the bat from the immediate vicinity of the plate in a way that did not distract them from their real duties. It generally leaves me with a favorable impression of the umpire.

JMO.

JM

Okay, Coach...

From what I've gathered, you are involved mainly with youth travel leagues and such. If I'm mistaken, it wouldn't be the first - I'm working from memory here. Many instructional league (travel is still considered instructional) umpires find it necessary to insert themselves into the game and ingratiate themselves with participants and fans. We've all seen examples of shaking hands with the gang after a game, helping to carry the equipment to and fro, gabbing at the backstop, explaining calls to anyone who would listen, etc. All of these things typically endear umpires to certain coaches but make fellow umpires plotz (hey, a North Shore term!).

I'm glad to see that you don't expect an umpire to remove playing equipment from live (or even dead ball) action. On a board that is so prone to whip out the umpire manual du jour, no one can find the instruction or advice for doing this particular mechanic. When these books illustrate everything from dusting the plate to breaking up a pitching conference, no one can point to the recommendation for clearing playing equipment. Hmmm?

Umpires will continue to do things that they think are appropriate even though they should know better. We've seen examples of these learned responses in the LL playoffs. If you want to scream 'Foul Ball' for every foul, go ahead. If you want to bring your left hand up to your right elbow when snapping an 'Out' call, go ahead. If you still feel compelled to do the bat boy or on deck batter's jobs, go ahead. The world needs its Smittys, so that places like this board can chuckle at them.

Once again, you are attributing remarks to me that I never made. I have never used the term "short bus" in my entire life. My mention of the word "retarded" was in response to a rule, not in a personal remark directed at a person who's feelings could get hurt. Saying that I think that a rule is retarded, and calling a human being a retard are two very different things. Please get your facts straight before cracking back on me.

I am getting a bit trollophobic, actually.

Blow us a kiss.............
 

How about <i>"fudgepacky"</i> or <i>"God abhors homosexuality. It is an abomination unto the Lord..."</i>.

Guess who said that?

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...114#post323114

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...899#post320899

And you're not homophobic?

Nothing personal, Soupy, but I feel like washing my hands after reading some of your posts.

I hate the rain and I don't like pork reins. Once in a while I'll eat some pork rinds, however.

Don't start the religous aspect of a closed thread, oh wise one. According to my copies of the Bible, I was correct. I did not say that homosexuals are abominations, just homosexuality. Man, you really need to hire a fact checker before you post. No, I'm not homophobic. I am not afraid of homosexuals. That is what the word means. I know many Christians who are homosexuals. They just don't have sex with each other anymore!

Homophobic does not mean:

a) not liking homosexuals

or

b) thinking that homosexuality is wrong

It means an irrational fear of homosexuals, mainly by backwards people who are very insecure about their own sexuality, a group of which I am not a member. Quit trying to redefine the meaning of the word.

And one more thing, the Fudgepacky reference was a play on words in reference to the name of a trouble-making troll who was insulting everyone on our board. My remarks were in defense of our board, and nothing else. Why don't you quit bringing up the past, and stick to the present. Not a question, a request.

I boot the crap outa it, lets get real here.....F2 likes to keep his mask on the ground to blast the runner, not with me. Not too hard to handle this crap.......