Can checked swing be a 'fourth out' appeal?

ctblu40

bob jenkins wrote
It might get confusing for BU if the pitch is in the dirt and PU asks immediately (as he's supposed to.) Now, BU should rule on the swing immediately and be turning for the play at second, and must recognize that it's now a force play and be ready for a throw-back to first if R1 is not retired at second. That's a lot, but that's why BU gets paid the big bucks.

Wow! In this sitch, BU has made three decisions without a ball being batted! Hat's off to this guy, he's on top of it tonight!

Personally, I can see myself kicking this play all to he11!🙁

ctblu40

LMan wrote
Your guys need to give back part of their game check. There is NO reason not to ask BU anytime, what position he is in is irrelevant. The BU can judge intent from anywhere. If the batter is LH and you are in "A"? Do the best you can with what you saw....if the teams want a better angle, they can pay for a U3.

I have banged out more than one batter from B and/or C, and I've never had a PU who was reluctant to ask me.

I agree 100%! Many times these guy's cover checked swings in pre-game by saying, "If they ask me to come to you, just agree with me. If I come to you on my own gimme what you got." My ususal response is, "If you don't want my opinion, don't ask, if you ask, I'll give it to you."

LMan

ctblu40 wrote
Wow! In this sitch, BU has made three decisions without a ball being batted! Hat's off to this guy, he's on top of it tonight!

Personally, I can see myself kicking this play all to he11!🙁

Heh. The other day I was in C, with R1, R2, no outs. Ball hit to F6, who swipes at R2 going to 3B:

"Safe!" (missed the tag)

then F6 tries to start a DP, throws to 2B:

"Out!"

then relay to 1B, not in time:

"Safe!"

...all in the space of ~3-4 seconds.

ctblu40

LMan wrote
Heh. The other day I was in C, with R1, R2, no outs. Ball hit to F6, who swipes at R2 going to 3B:

"Safe!" (missed the tag)

then F6 tries to start a DP, throws to 2B:

"Out!"

then relay to 1B, not in time:

"Safe!"

...all in the space of ~3-4 seconds.

But it all started with a batted ball😃

mcrowder

Add a wrinkle here - stealing R1, check swing, ball hits dirt, F2 fires to 2nd for the steal, but runner is safe. BR takes off, not knowing whether that was a strike or not, and F6 puts the ball in the stands, R1 awarded home.

Defense appeals the swing - yes, he went. The steal of 2nd is now, retroactively, a force play.

ctblu40

mcrowder wrote
Add a wrinkle here - stealing R1, check swing, ball hits dirt, F2 fires to 2nd for the steal, but runner is safe. BR takes off, not knowing whether that was a strike or not, and F6 puts the ball in the stands, R1 awarded home.

Defense appeals the swing - yes, he went. The steal of 2nd is now, retroactively, a force play.

My head hurts...:confused:

SanDiegoSteve

ctblu40 wrote
What if PU has a reputation for not checking with BU on these types of appeals (I know that he should, but many here won't if BU is in B or C)?

What makes some umpires afraid to ask the BU for help when they are in the middle? It makes no difference where the BU is positioned, he's watching the pitch for just that purpose. Otherwise, he could just stand out there and pick the daisies.

SanDiegoSteve

ctblu40 wrote
"If they ask me to come to you, just agree with me. If I come to you on my own gimme what you got."

Was this the guy who said this?😃

ctblu40

SanDiegoSteve wrote
Was this the guy who said this?😃

It wasn't him, but I'm sure they're related! 😉

Chukinrox

Rich Fronheiser wrote
We DON'T all know this.

I can call a check swing just as well from B or C as I can from A or D. Saying otherwise just perpetuates this myth.

If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle.

JJ

R1, R2, two out, two strikes on the batter. Runners stealing on the pitch, which is a check swing in the dirt. PU calls "ball", catcher throws to third to try to retire the stealing R2. Third baseman misses the tag, but he is touching the bag when he takes the throw. Defense appeals the check swing, and the BU says "Yes, he went".
Where is the out recorded? And who leads off next inning? As soon as it became a dropped third strike, it became a force at third base, and the third baseman WAS touching the base when he took the throw....hmmm....

I love this game -
JJ

GarthB

Chukinrox wrote
If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle.

If you can stand on the third base side of a field and not be able to tell a coach that his better offered on a legitimately close check swing, then you are looking for the wrong evidence.

Tim C

"If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle."

As I have intoned many, many times:

People that defend this logic either don't understand the checked/unchecked swing rule or do not have the guts to make a tough call.

A well trained umpire can easily make this call from either "B" or "C".

Regards,

mcrowder

JJ wrote
R1, R2, two out, two strikes on the batter. Runners stealing on the pitch, which is a check swing in the dirt. PU calls "ball", catcher throws to third to try to retire the stealing R2. Third baseman misses the tag, but he is touching the bag when he takes the throw. Defense appeals the check swing, and the BU says "Yes, he went".
Where is the out recorded? And who leads off next inning? As soon as it became a dropped third strike, it became a force at third base, and the third baseman WAS touching the base when he took the throw....hmmm....

I love this game -
JJ

JJ, what an amazingly unique and previously unthought of situation 🙄 (see above!!!) 🙂

LLPA13UmpDan

I would say, since it was not called a strike orginally (Appeal afterwards), the out would be by the guy thrown out at second, and batter is back up next inning. 🙂

SanDiegoSteve

LLPA13UmpDan wrote
I would say, since it was not called a strike orginally (Appeal afterwards), the out would be by the guy thrown out at second, and batter is back up next inning. 🙂

Then you would be wrong.🙂

mcrowder

LLPA13UmpDan wrote
I would say, since it was not called a strike orginally (Appeal afterwards), the out would be by the guy thrown out at second, and batter is back up next inning. 🙂

Do you have any rules basis for saying such a thing? Or any defense for it if protested?

Let's expand it a bit to further illustrate the point. Make it R1 and R3, a double steal. R1 holds up long enough for R3 to score, and R1 is then tagged. The defense then appeals the swing, and batter is called out. Do you score the run? (Of course not ... because the BR was the 3rd out ... same as if R3 did not exist.)

Rich

Chukinrox wrote
If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle.

Then he'll get ejected just like anyone else who argues balls and strikes.

Sack up and do your job.

DG

Check swing is easy call from A, B, C, or D. But some can't see a batter standing on the plate when making contact with a pitch. Holy cow!

Rich

DG wrote
Check swing is easy call from A, B, C, or D. But some can't see a batter standing on the plate when making contact with a pitch. Holy cow!

I'm not looking for it. There's a difference.

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