Where to Draw the Line With Fans

[LMan]

Originally Posted by Uncle George

If the coaches don't take care of the fan, there are things as the plate ump you can do:

1) Strike zone for the fans team when at bat becomes larger and larger. While on defense it becomes smaller and smaller. Just lean over the catcher and tell him to silence the fan and things will get back to normal. I'd just say my concentration is being interupted by the fan and I can't focus on the pitch. By the time you toss the players for protesting the strike zone, you've got a forfiet. Game over! I know all of this is not ethical, but drastic times call for drastic measurers!

Oh, please. You must be that 'crazy' uncle that no one mentions at the family reunions

[PeteBooth]

Ignore them. If they start threatening, address it. But other than that, ignore it.[/QUOTE]

First off IMO we need to take a look at the Game itself.

This is not some High level College Game, HS playoffs etc. It is an adult mens league game no more no less. There is no security.

Therefore, the problem I have with the aforementioned is:

Why should we have to wait until threatened? By that time it might be too late. We do not know if the guy was drinking , doing drugs etc. Also, when a fan SHOUTS obsentities at the umpire for all to hear you never know when the ENTIRE crowd can become hostile especially in todays society. BTW I have seen it.

WE are not PRO Umpires at least I am not, meaning we do not get paid the BIG bucs to put up with fan obsentities.

It's one thing for a fan to say "hey Blue you cost us another one" or something along those lines, it's quite another when they start Cussing at the Umpire as in a major league ballpark.

Your association sounds different from mine because over the past 2 years our association has made it a point of emphasis not to take the kind of grief that was described in this thread. The "old" days are over at least in my area, so your statements about not moving up in your association etc. would not "hold water" in mine.

We are there to work a game not be a "punching bag" for some obnixious fan who may had a few too many and does not know how to control himself.

Umpiring is not my profession, it's a hobby.

Pete Booth

[mcrowder]

Well, honestly, it sounded like the OP was posting about a VERY minor amount of grief, and overreacted - your suggestions would have been an even stronger overreaction, to the point of being a problem bigger than the comments themselves.

[spots101]

"Hey, I remember my first beer, too. Are you having a good time?"

Now that's a good one!!

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Uncle George

JKUmp,

I feel your pain! For me, I'd call the coaches of each team to the plate during the break between innings and ask them to take care of the situation if that person is a fan of their team, which should do it.

i wouldnt even bring that much attention to the situation. tell each coach individually in the least intrusive way possible. when a coach is outside of the dugout telling john to go play right field, pull him aside and cover what you need to cover. as the 3rd base coach is making his way to the coaches box, say what you need to say as hes walking over and take a few steps with him. if you bring the coaches to center stage in the middle of the game, even though the situation might be handled for a few particular people who you are meeting about, everyone else in the stadium now knows how much it gets to you.

Originally Posted by Uncle George

If the coaches don't take care of the fan, there are things as the plate ump you can do:

1) Strike zone for the fans team when at bat becomes larger and larger. While on defense it becomes smaller and smaller. Just lean over the catcher and tell him to silence the fan and things will get back to normal. I'd just say my concentration is being interupted by the fan and I can't focus on the pitch. By the time you toss the players for protesting the strike zone, you've got a forfiet. Game over! I know all of this is not ethical, but drastic times call for drastic measurers!

are you taking the game hostage? "silence the fan and things will get back to normal"?
what does the strike zone have to do with some parent yelling? what does the catcher have to do with any part of this situation at all? he has no obligation to silence anyone, except for the pitcher on some occasions, but i probably wouldnt recommend to anyone ever in my life to have a catcher, or any player, "silence the fan"

[DG]

What fans?

[Pete in AZ]

I work a lot of what we call "beer leagues" each year. These clowns may have had a little talent once upon a time but can't let go. The guy in the stands usually never did and that is why he is there. It takes a lot to jar me and it's never happened from the stands. Unless the guy is standing there with a weapon, I ignore him and worry about the game. Pete Booth made a point that he could rile the others up and that worries him. I worry about what the rule book lets me control. The fans aren't part of them. Unless some MILF is flashing me, I'm watching the ball and listening to the players.

[bossman72]

Unless the fans are shouting threats, you should ignore- JMHO.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Dave, even these "fun" barbs to the fan are going to backfire on you one day. Said fan gets laughed at, humiliated, and decides to wait for you in the parking lot, for example.

I've said it before, I'll say it again...

Fans? What fans?

As I noted in my post, it is a high-risk strategy and I did not advocate it in the situation given. As with determining whether a runner is out or safe, it takes good judgment to assess whether any interaction with a spectator is likely to resolve or exacerbate a situation.

[Uncle George]

In the first post, the poster said this was a college-level adult league game! This is where my ideas started. College level, adult league game. These aren't high school kids who are subject to here's what will happen rules if you don't do as I say from the high school coach. I've done my share of these so-called "adult league games"! They all have one thing in common, they think they're pro ball players when in fact, the reason they're playing in this league is because no pro team would hire them! I'm there to enforce the rules of the game, not be someones friend. When umping this level, I call balls, strikes, safe or out! And more often than not, if you have problems with a player or coach, it's usually them and you! Usually the "league directors" let you deal with it your own way, within reason. Remember, it's an adult league so why can't the players act like adults, same for the fans. When they don't, that's when me as an Ump, in charge from the point of when I say "play ball", the game is in my hands and I don't put up with stupid stuff from adults! As a talk show host in St. Louis said, "you can't fix stupid"!
And by the way, I am the uncle that no one talks about at the family reunions...because most of the stuff they talk about no one can do a dad blamed thing about! Reunions are for those who want to find out who is sleeping with whom and who has the best gossip! About the only thing good about reunions is the food and desserts!

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by Uncle George

In the first post, the poster said this was a college-level adult league game! This is where my ideas started. College level, adult league game. These aren't high school kids who are subject to here's what will happen rules if you don't do as I say from the high school coach. I've done my share of these so-called "adult league games"! They all have one thing in common, they think they're pro ball players when in fact, the reason they're playing in this league is because no pro team would hire them! I'm there to enforce the rules of the game, not be someones friend. When umping this level, I call balls, strikes, safe or out! And more often than not, if you have problems with a player or coach, it's usually them and you! Usually the "league directors" let you deal with it your own way, within reason. Remember, it's an adult league so why can't the players act like adults, same for the fans. When they don't, that's when me as an Ump, in charge from the point of when I say "play ball", the game is in my hands and I don't put up with stupid stuff from adults! As a talk show host in St. Louis said, "you can't fix stupid"!
And by the way, I am the uncle that no one talks about at the family reunions...because most of the stuff they talk about no one can do a dad blamed thing about! Reunions are for those who want to find out who is sleeping with whom and who has the best gossip! About the only thing good about reunions is the food and desserts!

"Adult" leagues are the most volatile of games umpires do, for some of the reasons stated by Uncle George.

The "adults" are generally unsupervised. There is no controlling influence on them, unlike college or high school.

The "adults" THINK they are better than they are. They also think they are "better" than the officials at the game.

The "adults" sensibilities are occasionally alterred by "barley and hops" ingestion.

All of the above lead to an enhanced chance of uncontrolled violence against those that displease.

I still think it is best to have as limited contact with all participants (players, coaches, and fans) as possible.

Also, one should check with the organizers of these games to see what measures are going to be taken to ensure one's authority and safety. Then judge wether it is worth your while to umpire such games.



Doug

[LMan]

CK hits the baby seal on the head....

Don't work 'beer league' games....you know from both personal experience and anecdotal evidence what could/will happen. Is the few bux there worth the risk, esp when "there's such a horrible umpire shortage" elsewhere?

Didn't a famous philosopher once say, "The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result?"

[jxt127]

The number of umpires here who call the 18-22 year old league is steadily dwinding. Personally I find the 16-17 group generally plays better ball with less mouth.

None of the parks sell beer and we always have league reps on hand. Yes I know some of the fans bring their own beer.

As an interesting side-note the Ace pitcher of one of the teams was mouthing off at the ump last month. His coach told him to knock it off and just pitch. A few choice words to the coach and suddenly the team has an opening at pitcher for the rest of the season.

[nickrego]

Just being a smart A$$ today.

[SanDiegoSteve]

When working adult leagues, I have found that the 18 and up leagues are the worst as far as mouthy, wanna-be players. The best ones to work are the MSBL 40 and up or 50 and up leagues, where the players know damn well that their best days are behind them. They tend to have much more respect for the umpires, and are there to have a good time. These are the leagues which typically feature former MLB players who can still play some ball. The 18 and up leagues are filled with a bunch of guys who were never good enough to get even a sniff of minor league baseball.