Where to Draw the Line With Fans

[jkumpire]

Hello Folks,

I know it is really late in the East, but I am steaming mad. I've been injured for 3 months now, and just started calling games again. I really missed it. And usually I have no trouble with anyone at games. I'd like to think I am a quality umpire.

I'd like some opinions. I was working the plate in a college-level adult summer league, pretty good baseball. There are about 100 people in the stands.

Home team doesn't get a banger at 2B. The usual grumbling. Two pitches later I called a pitch a ball. Some guy yells from the stands: "We'll we're geting it both ****** ways now."

I really lost my temper. I went aboput 7-8 steps to the stands where I heard the comment from, and said: "If I hear something like that again I will find you and throw your sorry rear end out of here."

Two innings later, a player on t he home team (who is also a high school coach) decided to engage me in a discussion about my lack of professionalism and how I made an **** out of myself. I found out later it was his dad who said it. The guy also claimed his dad didn't use foul language (I guess obscene images are okay these days). I decided not to engage the person in any discussion, and the game went on. Game finished 2-1 home team lost.

Questions:

1. Was I unprofessional? In my opinion, no. I heard nothing else from the stands the whole night except for a snide remark or two as my partner and I left after the game. IMO just because I'm an umpire doesn't mean I have to put up with such abusive language from any stands. If there is 500 guys in the park, or it is a college game or HS game, I more than likely would have never head a thing. But 100 people is a different story.

2. Other than not saying anything, what other alternatives are there to what I did? Such crude language IMO can't be tolerated. Or is it simply I developed a momentary case of rabbit ears, and I'm just some old guy who has too thin a skin?

3. At this point in our rapidly eroding culture, is it time as umpires to just accept the fact that people are going to abuse us and say all kinds of garbage, and just ignore it, or get out?

Thanks for your answers and letting me let off some steam.

[David B]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Hello Folks,

I know it is really late in the East, but I am steaming mad. I've been injured for 3 months now, and just started calling games again. I really missed it. And usually I have no trouble with anyone at games. I'd like to think I am a quality umpire.

I'd like some opinions. I was working the plate in a college-level adult summer league, pretty good baseball. There are about 100 people in the stands.

Home team doesn't get a banger at 2B. The usual grumbling. Two pitches later I called a pitch a ball. Some guy yells from the stands: "We'll we're geting it both ****** ways now."

I really lost my temper. I went aboput 7-8 steps to the stands where I heard the comment from, and said: "If I hear something like that again I will find you and throw your sorry rear end out of here."

Two innings later, a player on t he home team (who is also a high school coach) decided to engage me in a discussion about my lack of professionalism and how I made an **** out of myself. I found out later it was his dad who said it. The guy also claimed his dad didn't use foul language (I guess obscene images are okay these days). I decided not to engage the person in any discussion, and the game went on. Game finished 2-1 home team lost.

Questions:

1. Was I unprofessional? In my opinion, no. I heard nothing else from the stands the whole night except for a snide remark or two as my partner and I left after the game. IMO just because I'm an umpire doesn't mean I have to put up with such abusive language from any stands. If there is 500 guys in the park, or it is a college game or HS game, I more than likely would have never head a thing. But 100 people is a different story.

2. Other than not saying anything, what other alternatives are there to what I did? Such crude language IMO can't be tolerated. Or is it simply I developed a momentary case of rabbit ears, and I'm just some old guy who has too thin a skin?

3. At this point in our rapidly eroding culture, is it time as umpires to just accept the fact that people are going to abuse us and say all kinds of garbage, and just ignore it, or get out?

Thanks for your answers and letting me let off some steam.

For an adult level game, yes it was probably over the line IMO.

You just have to do your job, that you are getting paid to do. Now, if someone in the stands were to threaten you, or challenge you to a fight etc., that might be different, but as far as just being an idiot, the umpires are fair game.

Of course it depends on your reputation in the area etc., but I've been known to engage the fans between innings in such games, just to let the idots know that I know who they are ... (g)

As for #2 question, yes our society has gone downhill. Now if a player or a coach engages in such behavior, its simply not tolerated, but the fans ...
as my old friend told me as a young umpire:

"they paid their dollar, let em holler"

Thanks
David

[briancurtin]

1. i think this could have been handled much better. while you may be right that you dont need to put up with abusive language from the stands...the stands arent your place to patrol.

2. i dont see any reason to talk to the fans, unless of course you have some MILFs on hand, just kidding. the fans are on the other side of the fence for a reason: they arent a part of the game. we as umpires are on the field to deal with the game on the field, and short of the fans threatening you or being completely and absolutely unruly, i think you just let them be the fans that they are. if you have fans that you think are taking it way over the edge, let the coach know that their fans need to be controlled if you really think it is that bad.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Hello Folks,

I know it is really late in the East, but I am steaming mad. I've been injured for 3 months now, and just started calling games again. I really missed it. And usually I have no trouble with anyone at games. I'd like to think I am a quality umpire.

I'd like some opinions. I was working the plate in a college-level adult summer league, pretty good baseball. There are about 100 people in the stands.

Home team doesn't get a banger at 2B. The usual grumbling. Two pitches later I called a pitch a ball. Some guy yells from the stands: "We'll we're geting it both ****** ways now."

I really lost my temper. I went aboput 7-8 steps to the stands where I heard the comment from, and said: "If I hear something like that again I will find you and throw your sorry rear end out of here."

Two innings later, a player on t he home team (who is also a high school coach) decided to engage me in a discussion about my lack of professionalism and how I made an **** out of myself. I found out later it was his dad who said it. The guy also claimed his dad didn't use foul language (I guess obscene images are okay these days). I decided not to engage the person in any discussion, and the game went on. Game finished 2-1 home team lost.

Questions:

1. Was I unprofessional? In my opinion, no. I heard nothing else from the stands the whole night except for a snide remark or two as my partner and I left after the game. IMO just because I'm an umpire doesn't mean I have to put up with such abusive language from any stands. If there is 500 guys in the park, or it is a college game or HS game, I more than likely would have never head a thing. But 100 people is a different story.

2. Other than not saying anything, what other alternatives are there to what I did? Such crude language IMO can't be tolerated. Or is it simply I developed a momentary case of rabbit ears, and I'm just some old guy who has too thin a skin?

3. At this point in our rapidly eroding culture, is it time as umpires to just accept the fact that people are going to abuse us and say all kinds of garbage, and just ignore it, or get out?

Thanks for your answers and letting me let off some steam.

As an officials you should never go into the stands, just for you own personal safety. It is an ADULT League game, that changes everything for the fans, no it is okay to swear at us. You mentioned that it got quiet after that, 9 times of of 10 they will get worse. This is the reason they are having trouble getting umpires to work adult games in my area. The want to be treated like they are GODS but they act like little leaguers and the usually pay peanuts.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

SNIPPED

Questions:

1. Was I unprofessional? In my opinion, no. I heard nothing else from the stands the whole night except for a snide remark or two as my partner and I left after the game. IMO just because I'm an umpire doesn't mean I have to put up with such abusive language from any stands. If there is 500 guys in the park, or it is a college game or HS game, I more than likely would have never head a thing. But 100 people is a different story.

2. Other than not saying anything, what other alternatives are there to what I did? Such crude language IMO can't be tolerated. Or is it simply I developed a momentary case of rabbit ears, and I'm just some old guy who has too thin a skin?

3. At this point in our rapidly eroding culture, is it time as umpires to just accept the fact that people are going to abuse us and say all kinds of garbage, and just ignore it, or get out?

Thanks for your answers and letting me let off some steam.

Okay you got it off your chest, now to answer the questions:

1. Yes, you were unprofessional. Your jurisdiction is inside the fence! You never go outside the fence for any reason. If you get into an altercation, you have absolutely no protection from the law.

2. Usually if you ignore the fool, he will go away. If he doesn't you can discuss it with the coaches (both of them) and if necessary, put the game on hold (pull everyone into the dugouts) until the idiot leaves. Usually if it comes to that, it's the fans that escort the jerk out of the area. By the way, the home manager may want to take care of the problem but he is not bound to by rule. A TD on the other hand, has to take charge of the fans.

3. You are a baseball umpire, not a politician or a priest. Stick to your job. If you are focusing on the jerk outside the fence, your not giving 100% inside the fence.

Look, I'm not saying to "ignore the fans" because we all know that we can't. Some of the crap gets said hurts and hurts deep. But this is the job that we chose so we have to suck it up and move on!

[Dave Hensley]

I agree with most of the advice that says you should stay out of direct confrontations with fans. The problem is it's kind of like the guy who pretends to have a gun when all he's got is his finger in his jacket pocket - you really don't have any backup for whatever ultimatum you give them.

The only possible tack you can take in confronting a fan is to try to shame or embarrass him into submission. A couple of times over the years I have said something to a fan to try to get him to STFU. One was "Hey, I remember my first beer, too. Are you having a good time?" Another was at a youth game and I said something about what a great role model for the kids the a--hole was being.

Those are high risk strategies, though, and in your specific situation I would have employed the "ignore everything coming from the stands" strategy because at an adult league game it's very unlikely your "moral" authority will prevail with that particular brand of dad in the stands.

[mcrowder]

Dave, even these "fun" barbs to the fan are going to backfire on you one day. Said fan gets laughed at, humiliated, and decides to wait for you in the parking lot, for example.

I've said it before, I'll say it again...

Fans? What fans?

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE=jkumpire]Hello Folks,

Some guy yells from the stands: "We'll we're geting it both ****** ways now."

I really lost my temper. I went aboput 7-8 steps to the stands where I heard the comment from, and said: "If I hear something like that again I will find you and throw your sorry rear end out of here."

As others mentioned you should have not addressed the fan. IMO you have 2 choices:

1. Simply Ignore - Let's face it we are human (at least I think we are) and sometimes this becomes difficult therefore, I recommend number 2.

2. When a fan becomes unruly and is making life difficult then approach either the Home / Visiting coach (depending upon whose fan it is) and tell them either so and so goes or we stop here. If you do not get any help from the coaches, then stop the game, Go home (do not bother to change in the parking lot - get in your car and go)

In addition, (hopefully you have a unified umpires association who sticks up for one another) write up a report to your assignor. Generally speaking the kind of behavior you describe must go on every game whenever a close call goes against this particular team. Your assignor if he/she received other complaints should then refuse to service this league until they "clean-up their act".

We have 2 extremes meaning Stay away from doing the "rug-rats (ages 9 /10) and the adult mens leagues. Those particular leagues seem to have the most trouble.

Pete Booth

[orioles35]

I agree. The last month has been a litany of stupid comments from fans, some directed at me, others at the game in general. There's always at least one a$$hole in the stands who thinks we're there for his abuse, perhaps he thinks it makes him "cool" to say those things. Well, if we acknowledge that guy, there are bound to be a handful more that realize, "HEY! HE CAN HEAR US!", then THEY feel like they can join in, if for no other reason than to see how much more they can irritate us.

Sometimes it takes all the self restraint you can muster, but you have to ignore fans. One of the best compliments I got during tournament time was from a coach who said, "I don't know how you put up with that nonsense, but I commend you for not letting it affect your zone." Truth was, it HAD...that team lost the borderline pitches for the better part of the game. Acting in that manner doesn't do their team any favors, that's for sure.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by orioles35

Truth was, it HAD...that team lost the borderline pitches for the better part of the game. Acting in that manner doesn't do their team any favors, that's for sure.

Never been a coach, but I would think that the smart coaches realize that obnoxious fans on their side of the bleachers can have this type of unspoken effect on the umpires, and thus would shut down the fan (s) in a hurry.

[mcrowder]

Pete, I have to tell you how this story would play out...

Commish calls me and tells me that my umpire walked off the field because of fan abuse.

I call umpire to get the story. I say, "What did the fan do or say?" "He said 'We're getting it both ***** ways now!'"

I say, "and you cancelled the game and left the field over THAT?!?!?!"

I totally agree with enlisting the coaches help or field admin's help if a fan is being threatening ("I'll get you in the parking lot", etc) or is so verbally over the top that he's likely to be sent to jail for disrupting the peace. But simple complaints that happen to include a simple cussword?

I'm not sure such an umpire would work in my area very much after that. I support my umpires to the hilt - but surely umpires must be able to ignore something as small as this. And an umpire who refuses to work a game with this mild of a complaint is extremely unlikely to move up at all.

Ignore them. If they start threatening, address it. But other than that, ignore it.

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Hello Folks,

I know it is really late in the East, but I am steaming mad. I've been injured for 3 months now, and just started calling games again. I really missed it. And usually I have no trouble with anyone at games. I'd like to think I am a quality umpire.

I'd like some opinions. I was working the plate in a college-level adult summer league, pretty good baseball. There are about 100 people in the stands.

Home team doesn't get a banger at 2B. The usual grumbling. Two pitches later I called a pitch a ball. Some guy yells from the stands: "We'll we're geting it both ****** ways now."

I really lost my temper. I went aboput 7-8 steps to the stands where I heard the comment from, and said: "If I hear something like that again I will find you and throw your sorry rear end out of here."

Two innings later, a player on t he home team (who is also a high school coach) decided to engage me in a discussion about my lack of professionalism and how I made an **** out of myself. I found out later it was his dad who said it. The guy also claimed his dad didn't use foul language (I guess obscene images are okay these days). I decided not to engage the person in any discussion, and the game went on. Game finished 2-1 home team lost.

Questions:

1. Was I unprofessional? In my opinion, no. I heard nothing else from the stands the whole night except for a snide remark or two as my partner and I left after the game. IMO just because I'm an umpire doesn't mean I have to put up with such abusive language from any stands. If there is 500 guys in the park, or it is a college game or HS game, I more than likely would have never head a thing. But 100 people is a different story.

2. Other than not saying anything, what other alternatives are there to what I did? Such crude language IMO can't be tolerated. Or is it simply I developed a momentary case of rabbit ears, and I'm just some old guy who has too thin a skin?

3. At this point in our rapidly eroding culture, is it time as umpires to just accept the fact that people are going to abuse us and say all kinds of garbage, and just ignore it, or get out?

Thanks for your answers and letting me let off some steam.

jkumpire,

1) A qualified YES. Verbally sparring with fans NEVER makes an umpire look good. There are more of them than there is of you, and the "mob" mentality starts setting in if you engage in conversation with the miscreant(s).

2) You should have ignored what I believe to be a rather innocuous remark. Fans are like assistant coaches, an unavoidable evil that is to be ignored at (almost) any price !

3) Umpires have been abused since the inception of the position. If you want to be beloved and spoken well of, umpiring is the worst vocation you could have entered. IF, these type of comments are really beginning to bother you, you might consider a longer break from the game. Some distance and introspection might clear your mind. But, be reminded, the behavior of the paricipants at a baseball game is not going to get any better !




Doug

[Uncle George]

JKUmp,

I feel your pain! For me, I'd call the coaches of each team to the plate during the break between innings and ask them to take care of the situation if that person is a fan of their team, which should do it.

If the coaches say the fan isn't a follower of their team, I'd contact the person in charge of the facility to call for police. In some states, it's against the law to use foul language and make obscene gestures.

If the coaches don't take care of the fan, there are things as the plate ump you can do:

1) Strike zone for the fans team when at bat becomes larger and larger. While on defense it becomes smaller and smaller. Just lean over the catcher and tell him to silence the fan and things will get back to normal. I'd just say my concentration is being interupted by the fan and I can't focus on the pitch. By the time you toss the players for protesting the strike zone, you've got a forfiet. Game over! I know all of this is not ethical, but drastic times call for drastic measurers!

[ctblu40]

You need to ignore these types of comments. Remember, in amature baseball, there are very few (if any) true fans in the bleachers. The poeple watching these games more likely than not are spouses, parents, etc.

I did an adult tourney last season and was getting ridden pretty hard from the bleachers. After a disparaging remark about my wife, I turned to the dugout (of the fans team) and ejected the first player I saw. When the coach argued that his player hadn't said anything, I told him, "It came from this direction coach, and he looked guilty. If these comments continue, so will the ejections. Take care of it."

After the next ejection of one of his players (about 2 minutes later) the crude comments stopped.

Just 1 solution.

BTW, the TD cut this team from the entire tournament, and refunded their entrance fee. Class act, I thought.

[Rcichon]

Keep the 'paying public' out of the game. That works both ways, if a fan is making you uncomfortable (as pertains to safety and well-being) then work with the Home Team Manager or TD; call 'TIME" and clear the field until the out-of- control spectator is removed or is under control to your satisfaction.

If you have a beligerent or moronic idiot then you should ignore him/her. Allowing them to 'get under your skin' in their mind just validates their criticsm. If you ignore them you leave them out of the game where they belong. After all, why would you care what they think, they don't pay you.

Remember too: idiots that vehemently criticise loudly, profanely and/or repeatedly sometimes affects Players and Managers. Take note of the players, especially if they are young. If this behavoir continues, you may have to deal with that idiot as an out-of-control spectator.