Runner on 2nd is stealing 3rd, there is catcher interference & the throw goes into leftfield & the run scores.Is the batter still entitled to 1st on the interference by F2?

The "offended" manager gets his choice of taking the play <b>or</b> the interference. He must make his choice known right after the play.

So if he takes the interference does the batter-runner get first base, all advancing runners get the next base and runners who are not forced and who are not stealing stay at the base occupied at the time of the pitch?

It's interference. It's a dead ball. B-R gets first. Other runners only advance if forced. See 6.08(c) examples and rulings.

With catcher interference, the call is a delayed dead ball. If the batter and ALL runners advance at least one base, the infraction is ignored and all runners advance at their own risk beyond the base they would have been awarded. The offense has no choice since all advanced.

If the infraction is not ignored, the penalty for the interference is that the batter is awarded first base. Additionally, any runners who may have been stealing on the play and any runner forced to advance as a result of the batter's award are also awarded one base. All other runners return to base occupied at time of pitch.

However, if the all runners and the batter do not advance at least one base, the offense has the option of taking the resulting play instead of the penalty.

Let's suppose batter is interfered with, yet manages to hit a fly ball to right field to score a tagging R3. Manager might elect to take the run scored and accept the out instead of leaving R3 at third and awarding 1B to the batter.

Just my opinion,

Freix

I believe that all runners stealing on a catchers interference get the base that they are heading for.
See 8-1-e-Note 1 page 45 Fed.
Greg

[Edited by Gre144 on Aug 6th, 2001 at 01:02 PM]

What if all runners advance at least one base but the interference caused the batter runner to get thrown out at second? I do not believe you can ignore an interference if all the runners advanced one base but one of them gets thrown out trying to advance two bases but did not get there because of the interference.
An example of this situation might be the following: Batter hits a ball to left field. The catcher holds on to him for five seconds. Batter frees himself and decides to head for second and gets thrown out on a close play. According to the rule, I guess you would have to call him out since he advance at least on base but the interference caused him to get thrown out out second. I would give him second base and not ignore the interference.

Greg
Greg

If the catcher grabs the runner you have obstruction. Different rule.Catche's interference applies only to interfering with the catcher hindering the batter's attempt to hit the ball.

Also, I believe that 6.08 only refers to allowing a runner attempting to steal HOME as being allowed to score (advance,) with the batter being awarded first. If the interference is enforced, all other runners only advance from the TOP base if forced.

??????????????
 

Greg writes:
<b>What if all runners advance at least one base but the interference caused the batter runner to get thrown out at second? </b>

Greg, what on earth on you talking about? This thread is on "catcher's interference", you know, batter swings, hits catcher's mitt.

Now how can this interference cause the batter/runner to get thrown out at second? Help me out here.

[Edited by GarthB on Aug 6th, 2001 at 01:48 PM]

I would hate to be working with all you guys in the same game.It would take at least 20 mins to come up with a decision that didnt even pertain to the original question?????? Bewildered

The original question was "Runner on 2nd is stealing 3rd, there is catcher interference & the throw goes into leftfield & the run scores. Is the batter still entitled to 1st on the interference by F2?"

The answer was answered above.

The manager has a choice of the play <b>or</b> the interference, but not both. That is, you can't take the run AND have the batter awarded first. One or the other.

That then raised a question as to what happens to the runners if the choice was to take the interference. That was answered. It is somewhat confusing as different rule sets apparently handle it differently - a nopt uncommon happening here in baseball-land.

Original Question---
Runner on 2nd is stealing 3rd, there is catcher interference & the throw goes into leftfield & the run scores.Is the batter still entitled to 1st on the interference by F2?

__________________________________________________ _________________________-

The throw goes into leftfield? I assume the Batter swung and missed the pitch, the catcher
caught it and threw the ball away trying to catch the thieving R2.

In this case the ball would be instantly dead , the Batter is awarded 1st because of the
Interference, and R2 get 3rd because he was attempting to steal.

R2 cannot score on this play.

Mark…….


[Edited by Mark Sanderson on Aug 6th, 2001 at 09:27 PM]

Which rules?

In OBR the ball is <b>not</b> instantly dead and the offense gets to take the play or the interference. Read 6.08(c)

<i> Originally posted by Mark Sanderson </i>

<b> Original Question---
Runner on 2nd is stealing 3rd, there is catcher interference & the throw goes into leftfield & the run scores.Is the batter still entitled to 1st on the interference by F2?

The throw goes into leftfield? I assume the Batter swung and missed the pitch, the catcher
caught it and threw the ball away trying to catch the thieving R2.

In this case the ball would be instantly dead , the Batter is awarded 1st because of the
Interference, and R2 get 3rd because he was attempting to steal.

R2 cannot score on this play. </b>

Not correct. CI or CO (Catcher's Obstruction for FED), is a
<b> Delayed Dead </b> situation as opposed to <b> Immediately Dead </b> By delayed dead - you wait for end of playing action before enforcing.

Here's what the umpire should do when we have CI.

1. Signal and say we have CI and wait for playing action to end.

2. Ask him / herself - Did all runners including BR advance at least 1 base? If the answer is Yes, then CI is ignored and we go no further, however, if the answer is No then

3. Enforce the CI. In the play being described you would allow the steal of third by r2 and put B1 at first if you were playing by FED rules (FED rule 8-1-1e NOTE:1) If you are playing using OBR, r2 back to second B1 to first. OBR would allow a steal or squeeze involving a play at the plate (Ref 6.08c example 2)

<b> Note: </b> Under CI, the coach can take the merits of the play or the CI. This involves a discussion all by itself, because now we can get into the debate as to whether the UIC should give the coach his / her options or not. I'll stay away from that for purposes of this discussion and say that the UIC enforced the CI and will wait to see if coach says something about the options.

The coaches options on this play are: count the run and leave B1 up with whatever count he / she had. or in FED he can have r1/r3 in OBR r1/r2. It's up to the coach. As mentioned as UIC you simply enforce the CI or CO and wait for coach to say something.


<b> R2 cannot score on this play. </b>

R2 can score on this play, remember CI is delayed dead so we do not stop anything until no further action is possible.
As mentioned, the coach might want to score the run and ignor the CI infraction.

Also, such election (whether to take CI penalty or the play), shall be made before the next pitch (legal or illegal), or play.

For your reference, in FED they have an excellent table on pages 34/35 describing situations that are delayed dead vs. immediately dead. It comes in very handy

Pete Booth

if R3
 

Now if we got R3 on a squeeze or steal in OBR it really gets interesting !

Pete, here is OBR Rule 7.04:
<ul>Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when:
(d) While he is attempting to steal a base, the batter is interfered with by the catcher or any other fielder.</ul>
As you can see, if as in the original situation, R2 were stealing 3rd then the batter was interfered with, the runner would be awarded 3rd base and batter 1st base if the penalty for the catcher interference in enforced. This is the SAME as Fed and not different as you state. R2 should not be sent back to 2nd base as you state.

Of course, the offensive coach may elect to take the result of the play instead of enforcing the penalty. I WILL bring that to his attention as an option rather than making him know it. That is preventative officiating.

Just my opinion,

Freix

PeteBooth,
I usually agree with you but I think your Point #3 may be incorrect as for OBR. In section 6.08C, (in italics) 2nd paragraph, Last sentence it says: Runners not attempting to steal or not force to advance remain on the base they occupied at the time of the interference. In this stitch,
R2 was stealing. So he would be awarded third Base. To sum it up, I believe the coach has 2 choices (OBR)
1) Result of the play. R2 scores and Batter still up.
2) R2 on 3rd and Batter on 1st.

What I have problems with is: If the Coach takes choice #1.
What do you call the pitch. Is it a no pitch - Is it a strike. What if the count was 3-2 and 2 outs. I don't believe the coach could take choice #1 because if he takes the play, the batter was the 3rd out (if indeed it is a strike)??? The problem is in OBR the book only provides examples when the batter makes contact with the ball (batter puts ball in play).

<i> Originally posted by DrC. <i>

<b> PeteBooth,
I usually agree with you but I think your Point #3 may be incorrect as for OBR. </b>

Yes, I made a mistake in OBR, however, because this is a rules interpretation I can <b> Legally </b> change after conferring with my colleagues.

Pete Booth

Correcting the error
 

......and you can change your decision even if it was an opinion. Pete, it is YOUR decision to change. ;-)

Just my opinion,

Freix

Original Question---
Runner on 2nd is stealing 3rd, there is catcher interference & the throw goes into leftfield & the run scores.Is the batter still entitled to 1st on the interference by F2?


The throw goes into leftfield? I assume the Batter swung and missed the pitch, the catcher
caught it and threw the ball away trying to catch the thieving R2.

In this case the ball would be instantly dead , the Batter is awarded 1st because of the
Interference, and R2 get 3rd because he was attempting to steal.

R2 cannot score on this play.

Mark…….
************************************************** *******
All of the above is wrong......Boy I tell you what I can say some of the stupidest things when I've been drinking..
:) (not really I don't even drink)All I can plead is insane,I read it quick and got it all mixed up.
Rich, Friex and eventually Pete all have it right,
sorry for the ignorant post.....Mark...

If the coach takes the play, then the pitch counts. In the example you gave, the batter would be out. The coach would be fired. ;) (and, yes, I know you can come up with some third-world situation where the out is the better choice).