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-   -   Venting / Should I be upset? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/27239-venting-should-i-upset.html)

Hollerace Thu Jun 29, 2006 03:54pm
I am not going to jump into the "LL umps are nancy boys" area. In my 29th season, I have reverted to LL post-season only, having done several levels higher.

And I still suck.

And yes, one of the PIAs we must endure are the "experts" (DAs, ADAs, other UICs, the whole sorry lot) who think it's their right to jump into the game.

Tuss, you must learn the sub rules, inside and out.

Dave Hensley's chart is, IMHO, superb.

I once snapped at a quarter-wit who tried to jump into an argument. The dope was oustide the dugout, near the stands, screaming, "I am the Italian Ice Chairman of the Rod Serling League and their official scorer."

I snarled back, "You're a fan. And you're vexing me." And moved the discussion to the center of the field.

Harummph.

Ace Holleran

PeteBooth Thu Jun 29, 2006 04:00pm
Now, I was wrong, so I have to take some heat here. So that upsets me. I hate being wrong, but accept that I was, and will never be on that rule again. I was misguided

Personally I do not "beat myself up" over local league rules. The SPR is one such rule. Then there is the infamous rule 7.13 in the majors.

It's one thing to blow a "true" rule and it's quite another when you mess up one of those local league rules. I do not know about your area, but in mine we service many leagues and each has their own "nuances". We do the best we can to keep up on the various local league rules but it's inevitable that you mess up from time to time. As stated you simply note it and move on.

I disagree with Dave somewhat. Yes you should ignore this person but he is an umpire himself, therefore away from everyone is where I would simply tell him.

If you want to ump the game yourself - Have a blast otherwise when I am umpiring "keep your mouth shut" If he does it again after that, then my umpiring at that particular LL complex is over.

Summary: When doing youth leagues that have all kinds of local league rules such as LL do not "beat yourself up" if you mess one of them up. IMO it's no BIGGIE. It's more important to study and learn the rules of the game then be worried about a local league rule.

I feel more embarrased as an umpire if I screw up CI followed by a play rather than some SPR rule.

Pete Booth

SanDiegoSteve Thu Jun 29, 2006 05:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
Now, I was wrong, so I have to take some heat here. So that upsets me. I hate being wrong, but accept that I was, and will never be on that rule again. I was misguided

Personally I do not "beat myself up" over local league rules. The SPR is one such rule. Then there is the infamous rule 7.13 in the majors.

It's one thing to blow a "true" rule and it's quite another when you mess up one of those local league rules. I do not know about your area, but in mine we service many leagues and each has their own "nuances". We do the best we can to keep up on the various local league rules but it's inevitable that you mess up from time to time. As stated you simply note it and move on.

I disagree with Dave somewhat. Yes you should ignore this person but he is an umpire himself, therefore away from everyone is where I would simply tell him.

If you want to ump the game yourself - Have a blast otherwise when I am umpiring "keep your mouth shut" If he does it again after that, then my umpiring at that particular LL complex is over.

Summary: When doing youth leagues that have all kinds of local league rules such as LL do not "beat yourself up" if you mess one of them up. IMO it's no BIGGIE. It's more important to study and learn the rules of the game then be worried about a local league rule.

I feel more embarrased as an umpire if I screw up CI followed by a play rather than some SPR rule.

Pete Booth
Pete,

The Special Pinch Runner rule is not a local rule. It is a Little League Rule.

7.14 -- Once each inning, a team may utilize a player who is not in the batting order as a special pinch-runner for any offensive player. A player may only be removed for a pinch runner one time during a game. The player for whom the pinch-runner runs is not subject to removal from the lineup. If the pinch runner remains in the game as a substitute defensive or offensive player, that player may not be used again as a pinch-runner while in the batting order. However, if removed for another substitute that player or any player not in the lineup, is again eligible to be used as a pinch runner.

Steve

PeteBooth Fri Jun 30, 2006 08:46am
Tuss, you must learn the sub rules, inside and out.

Unless you umpire EXCLUSIVELY for LL it's almost impossible to keep up with all the sub changes that LL has in place. There are regular season rules then tournament rules.

When I first started umpiring LL (approx 11/12 yrs. ago) the rules have drastically changed compared to all other rule codes. When I umpired All Stars there was no MPR requirement, no SPR just the "regular" Substitution rules ie; Starters were the only ones who could re-enter and they could only re-enter once.

Today in addition to the SPR rule, I think there is virtually free substituion once all players meet MPR. Then there is MPR itself which caused some games to turn into fiascos.

As mentioned, unless you are strictly a LL umpire, the sub rules are UNIQUE to LL, hence my terminology "Local league Rules"

I agree, Dave's chart comes in handy and since I still help out during tournament time I use the "cheat sheet".

My main point in this entire thread is that I do not "beat myself up" if I do not remember or know the SUB rules as you say "Inside and Out"

Pete Booth

SanDiegoSteve Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:53am
Pete,

Here you said the SPR is a "local," not a Little League, rule:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
Personally I do not "beat myself up" over local league rules. The SPR is one such rule.
Here you restated the same premise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
It's one thing to blow a "true" rule and it's quite another when you mess up one of those local league rules.
Here again you are saying that the SPR is a "local league rule" and that it is more important to study and learn the rules of the game (of which the SPR is one):

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
Summary: When doing youth leagues that have all kinds of local league rules such as LL do not "beat yourself up" if you mess one of them up. IMO it's no BIGGIE. It's more important to study and learn the rules of the game then be worried about a local league rule.
Once again, you are saying that CI is more important than the SPR rule, which it isn't. They are both equally important:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
I feel more embarrased as an umpire if I screw up CI followed by a play rather than some SPR rule.
Then, after being told that the SPR is in the book, you spin it like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth
As mentioned, unless you are strictly a LL umpire, the sub rules are UNIQUE to LL, hence my terminology "Local league Rules"
Little League Baseball is a huge organization, and they take their rule book very seriously. It seems as you are dismissing the importance of the technical aspects of Rule 7.14, which are very specific in nature, and very important to a team's strategy.

I am wondering why you just didn't say, "Steve, I was unaware of this rule, and now that I know it's in the rule book, I will not call it a 'local league rule' in the future."

Instead, you totally dismissed my post, which I researched and took the time to post the information therein. You could at least acknowledge my contribution, and not ignore it completely.

Steve

Carbide Keyman Fri Jun 30, 2006 07:31pm
But ................
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Summary: When doing youth leagues that have all kinds of local league rules such as LL do not "beat yourself up" if you mess one of them up. IMO it's no BIGGIE. It's more important to study and learn the rules of the game then be worried about a local league rule

Pete Booth
Don't let Rich hIves here you say such blasphemy !!!!!!



Doug

DG Sat Jul 01, 2006 09:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11
District Little League game today. Team A wanted to make a special pinch runner, to which i walked over to the manager, thinking that all the subs had been used, and therefore, you can't do this. I called in my more experienced partner to the discussion, who straighened me out. The coach then reported the switch to the booth, where the TD was.

Now, I was wrong, so I have to take some heat here. So that upsets me. I hate being wrong, but accept that I was, and will never be on that rule again. I was misguided

But while I was calling my partner in, the vice president of the league which hosts the tournament, who was standing on the fence next to the backstop, was yelling at me to allow it and have them report it. He is an umpire as well, but was not the TD for this game. While we was yelling, I put my hand out and told him to "Relax for a second".

After the game, as me and partner are walking to car, he comes up to me. The district head was also in on this conversation. I told him very clearly that while I was wrong (and will learn from it), I did not appreciate what he did. I told him he made me look bad in front of everyone. I told him that it was between me, partner, and TD, and he should know that being an umpire.

All he kept telling me was, it's a simple rule, you were wrong, I am the VP of X Little League. You need to know the rules.

I replied with "Listen, you were right, I'm not questioning that, but don't make me look bad. Let me and partner figure it out."

I've had similar encounters at this field before with him (him telling me to have pitchers throw 1 pitch between innings to speed it up, to which I replied, "no" + a time where during a weather delay he cancelled the game, to which we had another one of these conversations about).

So, how upset should I be? I goofed, and got shown up by a brother umpire while the game was going on. I would have been fine with that getting done in the parkinglot.

Thanks.
How upset should you be? Really upset. The ruling was corrected and his yelling was uncalled for. I would tell him to KMA and be gone. If "he is an umpire also" he should know better.


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