Another classy move by the AMLU
 

I guess they can't just take their $h!tty agreement and go back to work.

http://www.enybaberuth.org/scabs.htm

You're just as complicit as they are in this by posting a link to their "Hall of Shame" list here.


Tim.

My Name Is On The List.......i Am Not Ashamed Of It, So I Do Not Mind!

You Spelled My Name Right, Got My Home Town Correct.

Hey Who Could Ask For More!!!!

God Bless You All And God Bless America........were We Still Have A

Choice!!!!

Thanks For The Press Amlu......rock On!!!!

Blah blah blah....

Class of 2007
 

Whoa, that list was longer than I thought it would be. Now that some of those guys who never went to school got a free shot at the big leagues, Jim and Harry should have no trouble finding candidates for the class of 2007. Enrollment should SOAR.

Since there was no central point in MiLB that gathered names, this was obviously put together from input by individual AMLU members. I know of several names that are missing.

It's too bad their disregard for accuracy has effected you. You very well may not be the only one.

This page is part of Eastern New York's Babe Ruth Site, Jerry Francis, commissioner http://www.enybaberuth.org/.

You might check with him: [email protected] <[email protected]>

What would you think of an NFL official, who also worked NCAA Baseball (had CWS assignments), filling in when MLB umps struck in the late 70s, or early 80s? He earned enough money to pay cash for a new car.

Bob

Is this a great country or what?

As they say down on the farm, "It all depends on whose ox is being gored".

Bob

Blo40 R U Still Not Ready To Play Nice??????

By The Way The List Is Not Accurate.

I Know Of Two Guys At Least That Are Not On There Because We

Worked Together.

Thanks Again For The Recognition!!!!! I'm Honored That You Would

Take The Time To Comprise Such A Nice List.

It's Nice To Be Noticed.....

They shamed their families! Give me a break. LMAO. Get over it and put that $30 to good use.

I can think of a couple of guys I worked with that are not on that list. Also, they mispelled a couple of names! They got mine right though! :D

All,

I would like to correct one of the entrys. I was assigned games under the umbrella of Nick Zibelli. After his name on the list is written "...lied to his umpires to get them to work."

That statement is itself a lie. Nick Zibelli wrote each of us a long email outlining the possibilities of working Minor League Baseball. He theorized on where this might be headed. It was clearly an opinion and in no way can be construed as a lie.

I liken it to an economist who forecasts 3% inflation for next year. When inflation comes in at 4.2%, we do not say that he lied. Only an idiot would claim that the economist lied. Nick's statements were clearly labeled as opinions about possible future outcomes. Each of the readers with IQ's above 80 understood that Nick was outlining his opinion of what might happen in the future. Reasonable men of average intelligence understood that Nick has little control over the future just has economists have little control over inflation. Only if the econonmist happens to be the Chairman of the Federal Reserve does he have control of inflation and even that is tenuous. Only if a man is Commissioner of Major League Baseball does he have control of baseball labor relations and even that is tenuous.

Peter

I guess the email they've received worked. The page is gone.

Or, perhaps the number of complaints that Steven Tellefsen, CEO of Babe Ruth, received may have played a role.

It's amazing that a Babe Ruth League would allow their site to used in such a way.

Hey SCUMP....aren't these the same teams you worked during the strike? It's OK Dave, I'm sure they aren't talking about you. There is no way that a guy who worked the Atlantic League would have had trouble in the Carolina League. Hey Dave, if you like the press so much, why not give everyone your real name. I can do it if you like. Then you can thank me for the free press.

Nick Zibelli did lie in his message. If you don't feel comfortable calling him a liar, there are a few other names that come to mind which he also earned.

You know what the best part of threads like this are...in every thread about the post strike at some point it comes out that the players, managers, fans and everyone else are relieved to see the real umpires back, you then resort to point out that they only made a few extra dollars. That is the only leg you have to stand on. What a joke. You guys will never be as good as those guys, so you cannot claim that they are inferior umpires. You guys are pathetic. The bottom line here is that based on umpiring, you guys aren't even close.

Remember where you stand in this process...third choice at best. You know who is really laughing now, me. I just can't believe that you guys still think you belong. Hey, I hear there may be a move made in the big leagues in the next couple weeks...every scab should keep their phones close, that call may be coming.

Maybe they will even call a guy like me. Sure I haven't umpired in professional baseball for about ten years, but these AMLU guys just aren't as good as us amateurs. I think I got a shot...Nick Zibelli told me so.






Boys in blue welcomed back
June 16,2006

You hear it at every ballpark at every level, the cry of the eternally disgruntled fan: “Hey ump, you’re missing a good game!”In the first half of the Carolina League season, it would’ve worked well in reverse: “Hey game, you’re missing a good ump!”

Only a few games have been played since minor league baseball’s umpires returned to work this week, and the reviews are already rolling in.

Nothing against the anonymous guys who filled in until the strike was resolved, but rarely have baseball people been so glad to see umpires.

“Just their presence,” Kinston manager Mike Sarbaugh said when asked the biggest difference between the replacements and the pros. “You see more confidence, just a feel for the game with positioning on plays — just overall approach. Even the first day back, you noticed a difference.”

Indians first baseman Stephen Head agreed, citing the new and unusual practice of complimenting the guys everyone loves to hate.

“We’ve even said in the dugout (after a close play), ‘He was on top of that call,’ ” Head said, referring to the pros. “Whether or not he missed it, you could tell he had his own point of view; he wasn’t guessing.”

Said Indians third baseman Matt Whitney, “These guys just seem relaxed, like they’ve been there before.”

But positioning isn’t where the pro umps really stand out. It’s clear they’re more comfortable out there, but the real difference has been situational.

Take a May 27 fiasco in the Indians’ game against Winston-Salem. That night, a throw from second base pulled (or didn’t pull) Warthogs first baseman Chris Kelly off the bag, and the base umpire called the batter, Brian Finegan, out.

After a conference, the plate umpire (again, these guys were anonymous) overturned the call. Winston-Salem manager Rafael Santana bolted onto the field for an animated argument that lasted about 10 minutes. No less than seven Warthogs players surrounded the two umpires near first base and Kelly, his shirttail hanging and arms flailing, joined Santana to put up an argument that would’ve made Earl Weaver blush.

Still, amazingly, not one person go the the thumb.

“Maybe they knew that they screwed up and they didn’t want to make things worse,” Santana reasoned that night, surprised they didn’t at least run him.

Looking back, Sarbaugh said the pro umps wouldn’t have tolerated the display for long.

“There would’ve been probably at least two guys gone by then,” Sarbaugh said Thursday. “I just think (the replacements didn’t know), at times, how professional situations are handled.”

And take last night, when a pair of pro umps quickly diffused what could’ve gotten ugly after Kinston’s Brian Barton was plunked by Lynchburg’s Yoann Torrealba and both benches cleared.

That’s why it’s nice to see professional umpires once again doing a professional job with professional players. It wasn’t so much that the replacement guys were bad; it’s more a testament to the fact that the professionals — the guys who do this 140 nights a year — are actually good.

Even the pros make mistakes, but there’s way more to umpiring than balls, strikes, safes and outs. In the minor leagues, being a quality umpire is as much about knowing the nuances of the professional game as it is being able to make a fast, informed decision from the proper angle.

Still, Sarbaugh said, the replacements deserve some gratitude.

“I give them credit for coming into a situation that, at times, wasn’t a great environment,” he said. “But they hung in there and did the best job they could. We can’t play without umpires, so you’ve got to thank them for coming in in a tough spot.”

“These guys, they came out and 95 percent of them really tried,” Epperson continued, “and they did the best they could.”

Whitney agreed.

“It was just overwhelming for them, I think — the speed of the game and the other things surrounding it.” he said. “But they had to do what they had to do. I think it was all right.”

But it’s good to see the pros back where they belong.

Hey Arnie The Porker....onk Onk

I Never Worked In Kinston, Just Myrtle Beach.....i Worked 23 Games There.

I Spent Three Years With The Atlantic League
1 Year With The Northern League

Evans Academy 2000 At Age 38

Had A Blast Working....no Regrets, Would Do It Again, If You Don't Like The Fact That I Worked Guess What.....i Don't Give A Rats A$$

When Ever Your In Myrtle Beach If Your Feeling Froggy.....well You Know The Rest

Now Smile And Get Back To Your Slow Pitch Beer League Would Ya!

The AMLU member who authored this piece is really reaching.
In other words- All College umps are guessing on their calls. And are mindless robots with no point of view.
But suddenly, if you go to pro school you are given a 'point of view'

The first time one of the pros boots a call in favor of Head's opponent, I want to hear his quote. "It's Ok, I don't mind the pro booting the call, it's his point of view that matters"





Amazing, the first time I've heard a rat complain he didn't get tossed.
Had there been ejections, this AMLU author would have found a quote by someone saying had the pros been here they would have found a way to diffuse the situation without tossing anyone.

Earlier the author was implying the replacements were guessing and had no point of view. Now he's implying they made fast, informed decisions, but just didn't have a handle on the nuances of the game. I'm confused.

No matter how you look at it, this AMLU author has total disdain for the amatuer umpire.

I watched a AAA game the other night with a bunch of umps. "We" all noted a few problems.

1 - Nobody on, ball hit down the first base line. U1 signals fair, then follows the ball down the line (at PGE park, there is an area that is in play down the line that you cannot see unless you go down there, so anything on that line you go out!). Anyway, plate ump never left from behind the plate, when clearly the mechanic is that he follows the batter runner. Had their been a throw back at 1st base, nobody would have been there to call it!

2 - Plate blue was VERY fast coming up on called strikes, and especially fast on called third strikes! We noted that MANY batters were "turning" on his calls, and about 5 throughout the game stayed to "jaw" on him. Interesting. I didn't get that many looks, nor had that many turn on me when I did the plate. But that is another story! :)

3 - We gave up guessing which side of the mound U3 was going to be on with runner on first, less than two outs. Generally, he would be in deep B, EVEN when a left handed batter was up. :( But, we also seen him go to deep C with a right handed batter up. We seen him change positions in the middle of the at bat twice. It made no rhyme or reason, and I tell you what, I would NOT want to be that guy on the strong side of the batter making a check swing call being out of a good position to call it. Anyway, he generally looked like he didn't really know WHERE he should be. Oh well.

4 - We observed that the plate ump sure seemed to be looking for trouble after any close call he made. He ALWAYS looked over at the dugout the call was against. To tell you the truth, it looked like he was baiting them to say something to him. Classy!

Overall, I didn't see this crew do anything "better", or look any sharper than any of the replacement crews I worked on. I certainly seen a few replacement guys call MUCH better games at the plate than this AMLU guy did!!! Every time I worked the plate, I got a compliment and a "thanks" from both catchers. I seriously doubt this guy did! ;)

Bet
 

This thread will last about another 5 posts before it is locked.

And then pdx or SC will start another one with the general theme of "We were just as good if not better". Which will be locked within 96 hours of its first posting.

Here's an idea: go start a new website- I have a suggestion: amlusucksbecausewewerebetterandbesidesourwivesorgi rlfriendsarehottertoo.com.

The horse just keeps on getting deader.

Strikes and outs!

Hey Lawyer......how Ya Been? In Case You Haven't Checked I Nor Pdx Started This Thread.....

No Wonder You "want To Be An Umpire....hell You Are Blind!!!

As For The Wives/girl Friend Thing.....are You Married To Some Ole *****y Fat Broad That Hen Pecks You And This Is Your Only Avenue To Vent? I'm Sorry. Tell Bigarella I Said Hi!!!!

Oh You Gotta Go Your Wife Just Called.....whats That Yes Dear!!!

Bye Lawyer......

Thanks SC
 

QED.

Strikes and outs!

You know lawyer, you will NEVER find a place where I ever claim I am "better" than any AMLU umpire.

I took a freakin' beating on this board because I claimed one of my reasons for "scabbing" was to see if I could do that level of ball. I was attack viciously, and guys that have NO idea how good or not I am claimed I sucked as an umpire, and proceeded to use fan web blogs as "proof" as to how bad I am.

Not only was there NEVER anything in those blogs about the calls I ever made, you will find NOWHERE any critisism about the crews I worked on. Visiting players often told me our crews were "pretty good" compared to elsewhere.

The point I keep making is that AMLU guys are FAR from not stinking up the joint! Many outstanding umpires were "let go" to make room for the current batch, and you can be assured that many guys that deserve to still be in Pro ball are not. Many of the current pro umpires can not perform at the same level as many of the guys released.

So, this whole silly arguement that the best available are currently doing pro ball is total rubbish!

Frankly, I have worked with some AMLU guys, both past and present. All "solid", but so far, none of them are as good as MANY current college umpires I work with who have no pro experience.

It isn't the fact that you went to the school! It isn't the fact that you did a season or two or 10 in the minors!

Good umpires are going to be good umpires! PERIOD!!!

The AMLU guys post biased article after biased article about how "bad" "amature" umpires are (funny, I am SURE I have made FAR more money umpiring than about 200 out of the 225 current MiLB umps have! and have supported myself many summers in the past JUST off of umpiring!). You can see their overblown ego's in every game you do with them.

What is funny is that I managed to get through around 16 AAA games without anything serious going down, and get many compliments from players. I helped keep a LOT of people working in their ball park jobs. I pretty much showed these AMLU guys that while they may be good, they are certainly not so good that they can shut down baseball simply because they choose not to work. :D

I really believe that had I gone through a pro school 10 years ago, I might have been on strike this summer. ;) I can hold my own in any professional game with any AMLU umpire!

So whatever Mr. Lawyer whoever! I will continue to post mistakes I see AMLU guys make on the field, simply because of the fact that they liked to do the same when I work! They are FAR from being above scrutiny in the job they do!

Is there a by-line or date-line available for this piece?

Bottom line: No one, and I really mean no one, expected amateurs to step into AAA ball and perform peferctly. Hell, AAA umpires don't step into AAA ball until they have at least five years experience working "pro" ball, and then, they don't perform perfectly.

Are AAA MiLB umpires better trained and better equipped to handle AAA ball than amateurs. Of course. No question. They are also better equippend to handle AAA ball than A and AA MiLB umpires, so what's new?

Amateurs, from what I saw first hand, did no worse than the "pros" at the long season A level. And that makes sense. Most of them had more experience than the Single A pros.

The argument was not, is not, and six years from now, will not be whether Amateurs are as good as AAA umpires. (They are not) The argument was, is and will be that managment found the difference in quality acceptable. That is the issue AMLU should begin working on. If they concentrate on blasting the amateurs, they will only succeed in guaranteeing that even more will sign up next time.

The AMLU needs to cultivate a relationship with amateurs, not continue to insult and degrade them. But that will take leadership, an item, apparently, in very short supply at the AMLU.

Wow.

Here's the deal: I should know better. Truly, I should. I should not read these threads that start with things like "Another classy move by the AMLU" because I know where they are going to lead. My bad.

Here's the other deal: the strike is over. I am not saying the AMLU guys are perfect. If some of them did, they are wrong, too. I'm saying the strike is over. Nobody who worked as a replacement is getting a PBUC job, at least not this year.

It's over. And yet, I have a feeling it will never be over.

Strikes and outs!

On this point, Garth, you could not be more right. And I know that there were AMLU guys behaving in precisely the opposite way from what you suggest. I also know that there are AMLU guys who behave in precisely the way you suggest- it is not a monolithic organization, as amply demonstrated by the one third of AMLU membership who voted against the contract.

This is by far one of the most intelligent posts on this subject, and a point I should have been making all along. Whether or not the replacements were just as good or better is irrelevant at this point. What matters now is how does the AMLU go forward. I'm guessing that relationship is not going to be fostered with the kind of "we're better" rhetoric going both ways.

Strikes and outs!

BL:

Throughout this ordeal I have always distinguished between the AMLU and MiLB umpires. I have always sided with the umpires. The umpires, in my opinion, have been "right". But the AMLU, again, in my opinon, has very often been "wrong."

The AMLU, although, as you say, not monolithic, will, as most "unions", be perceived as having the personality of it's most outspoken and zealous "leaders".

Hopefully, some reasonable, foward thinking and intelligent members will step up to the plate.

Unfortunately like most umpire associations the AMLU is run by those who have been hardened by the life on the road lifestyle of being a MILB umpire, and are quite often removed from the way the rest of the umpiring community thinks.

I was able to work with a AMLU guy in my area during the strike and it was a pleasure to do so. He didn't carry the proverbial look at me I am an MILB umpire. Now he did wear his pro jacket however he didn't bring any attention to himself in doing so. Plus it was about in the mid-30s (3 degrees Celsius) at game time. Also at the end of the first game (his dish) he talked to both catchers and coaches on how they could do a better job of receiving the pitches, as well he spent a good 15 minutes at the end of the two games giving me some pointers as well. Overall it was better than any clinic I could have attended.

*sigh*... yawn....

Who Cares Anymore!!!!!
 

When are people going to turn the page on this? We get it already; you do not like the union's position on scabs. Can we move to another topic and move on?

Peace

This is funny...once again Rut proves his worth to the board.

I believe his response to posts like this is, "Hey get a life and learn that we don't all not have to read what we don't want to. Just because you don't want to talk about it any more doesn't mean that we don't. If you don't like the topic ignore it or do you have to show eveyone that you don't have a backbone? You don't like it, that's too bad. This is a discussion board and we can talk about whatever we want to talk about. Peace"

(grin)

Nobody is suppressing your free speech
 

At least, not Rut or me. The moderators are another story- their board, their rules.

But then, WWTB, I bet if I did an extensive search of your posts, you would never have encouraged somebody to move on, make a point or shut up or anything similar. I won't go there. You get the point.

Rut has every bit as much right to speak and complain of the endless prattling about how the AMLU sucks and you and your fellow replacements were better in every aspect of umpiring as you have to prattle.

"Half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can't, and the other half who have nothing to say and keep on saying it."- Robert Frost

Strikes and outs!

As I read it, Rut was the one trying to dissuade posts on this subject not WWTB. I thought WWTB was simply pointing out Ruts' change of heart on when threads shoud end.

Blo40 Said This And I Even Agree With Him.....go Figure.

*sigh*.....yawn

BlueLawyer, you probably suck arguing cases in court! YOUR obvious disdain for people that disagree with your ignorant point of view is on full display when you make untrue comments such as:

"and you and your fellow replacements were better in every aspect of umpiring "

You will NEVER be able to back that statement with anything resembling facts!

As jury leader, I am recommending to the judge to throw your stupid self in jail! ;)

SCabUMP and I agree???
 

I never thought I'd see the day... :eek:

The merits of the facts in his comment were not based on the performance of the replacements, rather his comment went to Windy's assertion that they were superior in every aspect. Therefore his comment was not founded on a factual basis.


Motion denied.


Tim.

I don't believe Rutledge really wants to move on at all. He never normally does, so why should we believe that this is the case here?

What he does want to do, in reality, is to further stir up the pot by referring, once again, to the replacements as "scabs," knowing full well that some individuals on this board are offended by that term. It was a calculated move on his part to inflame and incite certain members of this forum. He no more wants to move on than he is the Easter Bunny.

what can i say blo40....i must be getting soft.

i have had my say and have beaten this horse to a bloody pulp......

i think it is time for me to move on. good luck with your umpiring CTBLU40.....peace

You're giving him more credit than he deserves, Steve.


Tim.

It is time to turn the page. Nothing is going to change by what we say here. Nothing is going to change the fact that umpires decided to work those games. If you did not want to see your name on the internet, then you should not have worked the games in this day and age. Twenty years ago the internet was not a big deal and we would not know just about everyone that worked these games. Today, everything is on a camera phone, association lists are put on websites and email and blackberries are something we see all the time.

So if you want to debate this stupid issue over and over again, be my guest. The strike is over and if you feel the AMLU umpires were not considered important by Minor League Baseball, what do you think they think of the ability of these replacements?

Peace

Wrong..... :D

I can see why calling someone a SCAB would be upsetting and inflamatory. But we are umpires and we have been called names several times before. I guess the difference is that each time someone calls an umpire horrible, that umpire knows that they are not horrible in their own head. So, when someone calls them a SCAB, that umpire knows deep in their own mind that that is exactly what they are. I have said it before...the truth hurts. The hardest arguments I have ever been involved in have dealt with me missing a call and having to defend it. This is no different. These SCAB umpires are in a position where they try to defend their decision to work. They can't compete with the AMLU guys in performance, so they undercut the end result of the dispute. Big suprise there, that is all they have left.

Again, like I said before, every SCAB umpire can sit at home and know that along with being a SCAB they were also baseball's third choice for working their games. And don't go fooling yourself saying that you did a noble thing because little Johnny at the concession stand needs a job too. These teams told their coaches to be ready to go out there and call games from behind the mound. The games would have been played regardless.

So, along with being a SCAB and baseball's third choice, you also know that you are one step ahead of a coach calling pitches and plays from behind the mound.

This is seriously the easiest argument I have ever been in. You guys remain pathetic and you will forever live in the armpit of baseball. Just remember to tell the truth when you give your resume. You are not a professional umpire in the minor leagues unless you went to school, got selected, and earned a job. Otherwise you are an independent league umpire, amateur umpire, or (as unfortuante as it is that this term hurts) a SCAB.

I would end this with something like "Peace" but I know my audience here. There is nothing peaceful about any of these guys defending the SCABS. They are vindictive and demeaning. So take your cheap shots at me, but remember the type of umpire you are talking about. I didn't sit back and talk about going to umpire school. I am not sitting here saying that if I went years ago, I would be somewhere else. I went to school. I got a job. I worked for many years and earned my way to AAA. I was a crew chief in both AA and AAA. I know what I am talking about and I got my answer from baseball. I earned that answer. And for the record, when someone asks me about my umpiring, I tell them that I am a former professional umpire. Not a current one. At the present time, I am an amateur umpire. I am working a few games here and there, but I am no longer being supervised by MLB or MILB umpire supervisors. And no SCUMP, the independent league supervisors don't count. They are not going to promote you if you perform well. At most they will invite you back because you do a decent job. It is not the same as MLB or MILB.

Until you work under that pressure and perform well, you won't know what I am talking about. And that is why these SCABS are so clueless. You believe you did the job just as the AMLU guys. But, you didn't travel for six months away from home, you didn't change hotels and ballparks every 3-4 days. You didn't have the players and managers treat you as equals. They knew what you were and they knew they had no choice but the deal with it. But read between the lines. No one is asking that you guys come back. You were a joke to baseball because you believed them when they said you were an asset to the game. You were nothing but a bandaid. Now accept that and forever know that you took advantage of a group of guys that fought against baseball. Just as quick as you slipped through the back door, the AMLU guys through their performance have thrown your asses out the front door. The truth hurts!

Now take your shots boys...I am a big boy and I can take it!

I find it funny that this guy can rip people for taking games that were refused by AMLU members, so that regular folks could take in a game, but I can't call him what he is.

It's okay to call people scabs because they don't respect unions, which is their God-given right, but I'm not permitted to call this person a demeaning name as well. Double standard here.

He ended his post with a challenge to take shots at him, but I guess the word "scab" is acceptable, but *** is not.:mad:

I loved it when Reagan forced the Air Traffic Controllers back to work. A great day in American history!

Neither the first nor the last time.

Then again, I wasn't good enough . . . oh never mind . . .:)

Strikes and outs!

Some kid named Marmol was called up from the minors last week and pitched for the Cubs.
He was at least the 4th choice.
I believe the Cubs would have preferred Wood, Prior or Wade instead, but for various reasons they were not available.
I think he allowed 1 run in 6 innings. Not bad. I think everyone involved would have been happy if choices 1 thru 3 had performed just as well.
Marmol certainly wasn't complaining, even though he knew he was at best the 4th choice.
First choice or third choice the replacements made the list, made their mark, made their point.

Steve,

No way to compare the two. Federal regulation prohibited the ATC strike because it put the public at risk (Same reason why law enforcement & fire fighter may not strike).

As far as BA's post: It's not a double standard at all. The fill-in umpires EARNED the title SCAB (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: SCAB is a slang term for a strike-breaker).

Umpires that took games during the strike KNEW what they were doing. Regardless of the reason one did these games, he/she earned the title. Live with it - you got exactly what you asked for.

Do I agree with everything that the AMLU &/or supporters have done or have been accused of doing? No, but that's simply my opionion. However, SCABS earned the title, so they have zero room to complain when names &/or pictures of them appearing in a public venue are posted.

So far as mistakes that may have been made: Any person improperly listed is free to PM me here. I can assure you that every reasonable effort will be made to correct mistakes (Hickman is OFF the list). PDX - we can fix your name too ....

Eh, just an observation. I would not have taken your bet at that time, either.

I'm surprised that the mods don't just set the software to 'delete' every time the letters A-M-L-U are typed :D

B Arnold....thank you for just being you. I feel enlightened every time I read your post.

In the future I hope to mold myself into a stud muffin like you!!!!

until then I will simply be just a scaba daba doo..................................

too funny!
 

SCUMP-
Although I disagree with your stance on this issue, I have to admit, when I see some of your 1-liners... LMAO! :D

CTBLU40....thats fair. I can surely understand why you and I see things differently and I respect that. Good luck between the lines. peace

From the fingertips of socalblue1:

As far as BA's post: It's not a double standard at all. The fill-in umpires EARNED the title SCAB (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: SCAB is a slang term for a strike-breaker).

Oh, okay...so I can use the words nigger, kike, spic, wop, dago, sheeny, dyke and fag with impunity? After all, those are slang terms for those people.

By the way, they didn't break the strike. They simply replaced the umpires that refused to work. The strike still went on.

Umpires that took games during the strike KNEW what they were doing. Regardless of the reason one did these games, he/she earned the title. Live with it - you got exactly what you asked for.

Jim, you are treading a slippery slope. One could say that the AMLU gang got exactly what they deserved.

Do I agree with everything that the AMLU &/or supporters have done or have been accused of doing? No, but that's simply my opionion. However, SCABS earned the title, so they have zero room to complain when names &/or pictures of them appearing in a public venue are posted.

Okay...so I propose we begin a website for Associate AMLU members and part time Minor League umpires. We can post their photos (I assure you they won't be flattering.) and exploits. We can defame them and ridciule their actions and behaviors. The juicy photos of coach/player flare-ups will make great fodder for a rolling billboard on the masthead. Maybe we can dig up some personal background info and publish that too.

What? You don't like that idea. After all, when the replacement umpires (term used by MiLB, MLB and PBUC) agreed to work those contests, they never signed a waiver of rights. One would think that you never heard of slander and libel suits. If you think it's alright to defame an ordinary worker then you should have no problem telling us where we can find you gainfully employed.

So far as mistakes that may have been made: Any person improperly listed is free to PM me here. I can assure you that every reasonable effort will be made to correct mistakes (Hickman is OFF the list). PDX - we can fix your name too...

The word "reasonable" should never make it into any AMLU related spin. When they decided to publish the names, addresses and photographs of those that worked in their stead, they made a tremendous mistake. The wrath of the amateur umpire is greater than that of 220 prima donas. Since the average stay in the PBUC system is seven years, those inflated egos will be brought down to earth soon. They will join the ranks of those who umpire for the joy of the game (the paycheck, exercise and occassional MILF in the stands too). Former MiLB umpires worked as replacements and were just as qualified. What did they do to deserve the defamation? They worked games that the AMLU guys said they didn't want anymore. When I turn back college games to my league or assignor, I don't get to ridicule my replacement. Be a man and admit that.

WWTB,

You left out bohunks, eggheads, fudgecicles, micks, frogs and hi-slants.:D

Yes, there were many more names that I could have used, but I figured that the point was made. Just because a few people enjoy using the word 'nigger' doesn't make it acceptable. The AMLU and some of their followers are using the word 'scab' in the same way. Enlightened souls choose to use the term 'replacement umpires' since that is exactly what they were - they replaced the umpires who refused the assignments.

Some people still don't get it...umpires don't like being called names.

Forced them back to work??? Hell, he fired them all! A great decision, too.

Just because a few people enjoy using the word 'nigger' doesn't make it acceptable.

I guess that you must have flunked reading too. Even your attempts at wry humor are failing.

Yeah, this thread should end...but why?

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...41/1007/SPORTS

That is just typical pro guys "looking for trouble where it isn't" stuff! You can't expect too much from a guy that has probably only been umpiring for a few years and is in WAY over his head in handling situations.

Messed up now ...
 

Poor guy, didn't think about the game situations involved.

Guess he just lost a chance to move up to the next level.


This reminded me of the old days when the umpires actually ruled the roost, with no access to the media etc.,

Now at least in MLB they have to answer for their miscues - for better or worse I don't know.

Thanks
David

Inexperience... Are you kidding?
 

Lets say he's been a pro umpire for 4 years. Let's also assume that he was an amature for 2 years before that (because not many people get a degree in baseball umpiring).

Now, in those 4 years in MiLB, he's probably worked 28-30 games a month per season (6 months long). That's roughly 168-180 games per season, for a total of about 672-720 MiLB games. That's not counting spring training, fall league games and possible winter ball assignments.

Is it possible that this amount of experience is equal to 10+ years of amature experience? Not too many amature umpires work that many games each year...

Maybe it is just me, but I got the impression that PDX was being a bit sarcastic. If this same situation had happened to one of those "replacement umpires", the charge would have been that he was in way over his head and didn't know how to handle those types of situations on this level. But since this was a "pro guy" I'm sure he handled it exactly how he was supposed to.(sarcasm note)

Oh... I get it. I'm a little slow in picking up on sarcasm on this message board.

Actually, it seems that MANY pro guys never umpired before going to pro school. So, there is a pretty good chance that he only has a few (3-5 years) experience. Maybe a year of Rookie ball, 40 games. 1 years of short season A, 40 games (two years, and he still hasn't worked as many games as I do in a year), Long A, maybe 120 games (about how many I work a year), then AA, another 120 games. I am counting about 320 games there.

Not that many.

And I am being serious. Many of these guys are not that experienced in umpiring. They should have to go out and do a few years of adult leagues first to get a clue about how to deal with grown men expressing their displeasure with calls.

I related in another thread about how I watched a AAA game a week ago, and the plate ump after every "close" call/pitch at the plate would stare over at the dugout of the team it went against. It truely looked like he was baiting them to say something about the call!

It never fails. When I work with an ex pro guy, and a batter gets hit, after the game they always say how they think the pitcher was throwing at them. :rolleyes: I issue about 1 warning every other year for this, and it is never problem!

Anyway, yeah, a bit sarcasm, but a bit of truth in my post. Truely, this guy appears like he doesn't know how to handle tough situations. If he had a command of the game, I doubt that he would have had to dump 3 people from the same team! The term that the manager used "over-umpiring" is unfortunately spot on with many of these pro guys! I had several AAA players tell me about how with the "regular guys" they can't really say ANYTHING to them without getting tossed. I believe it based on what I have seen!

But at least he had a 'point of view' and wasn't guessing.
So that makes everything hunky dorey.

Let's think about this some more.

Rookie ball 60, not 40 games.
Short season, including extended spring training, aprox 120-130 games.
A ball, probably 2 years. Including spring training and playoffs, aprox 160 games a year.
AA for 2 years, same, 160 games.

Wouldn't you think the best of the best, the Top Guns of umpires would be able to manage a game better? Especially after over 800 tries.

I expected this from replacements, after all they were the third choice and mere amateurs.

Maybe this is an indictment on the schools not the AMLU.

Seriously, Maybe the school of hard knocks and experience is actually a better training ground than Evans.

Maybe not in cold weather areas, but where the sun shines most of the time, 150-200 games a season is quite common.

im not defending the umpire here but the player did pop off from his position according to the article. as for the other two ejections if he issued warnings and felt they were throwing at the batter he did what he was supposed to do. in a situation like that i feel you had to be there in that moment and actually working the game. we don't know what had transpired throughout the game.

and being a replacement i read all the things some managers that were mad said about the the umpiring at that time.

so i say they are "RATS" CHESSE EATING RATS....tell him to shut the **ck up and play.

naturally the manager would call his player a class act even though the rat is out on the field running his mouth.

bottom line if he kept his mouth shut he wouldn't have been dumped....

The third baseman hollered "bear down" at the umpire. Charlie Williams ejected the saintly Steve Garvey for the first and only time in his career for telling him to "bear down." So that ejection was a good one. The guy even admitted he yelled at the umpire from his position.

It sounds like Cliburn has a problem controlling his players, as it was reported that the entire Mud Hens infield converged on the umpire when he issued a warning for hitting batters. The umpire probably shouldn't have issued a warning given the circumstances of the game, but the manager should immediately clear out his players from the argument. Hopefully that is what he did, as that part was not reported.

Once the warning was given, the umpire really had no other choice but to eject on the next hit batter, so that ejection was clean too. The only question remaining is whether anybody was ever really throwing at hitters intentionally to start with.

I would guess that we will see more than the usual number of ejections the next couple of weeks. Why? The fill-in's accepted MUCH more BS from the teams than a regular MiLB umpire ever would (I have been hammered more than once over the years by partners and supervisors when working as a fill-in for this).

Not necessarily a criticism of the fill-in's, as they managed the games in their own way. The chirping & whining the fill-in's let slide are a no-no most of the time at the pro level. It's going to take a bit of time for everyone to realize the sheriff is back.

As to potential throwing at batters - MiLB want's a very hard line here (Investment protection). The potential outcome is a few more managers & F1's get dumped each year than is really necessary to control the game.

I Got Dumped By The Sheriff......

But Not By The Deputy.......

He Got Dumped By The Sheriff.....

But The Rat Swears It Was In Self Defense.........

Replacements would never let non-routine situations get out of control. They would never be perceived as handling a non-routine situation so poorly that a team manager would pull his entire team from the field and refuse to continue the game.

AMLU has been in existence since around 2000 or 2001. So we have had 5 or 6 years of games being umpired by AMLU members and not once did any manager perceive an AMLU umpire (or crew) as handling a non-routine situation so poorly that they felt compelled to pull their entire team off the field and refuse to play.

Replacements worked, what, two months or so?...far, far less number of games than the number of games AMLU umpires have worked in the history of MiLB...and yet, they managed to have that exact situation occur.

H'mmm, I'm sure those replacements' experience had nothing to do with that incident, of course.

Of course, I'm sure the pro-replacement posters' response to this will be that the manager who pulled his team was "wrong" and an "idiot" and "it wasn't those (replacement) umpire's fault."

Yet, in the same breath they'll say that the story involving the AMLU "AAA" umpire ejecting the third baseman, pitcher and manager was the "umpires fault" because he was "inexperienced" and he doesn't know how to manage "men".

And let's make one thing clear: I'm not blinded by loyalty to the AMLU. In all my posts on this topic this spring I have (1) used the word "scab" sparingly, preferring to use "replacement" and never calling any poster a "Scab" (2) never criticized or attacked any poster on this board (or umpire.org) for working as a replacement, and (3) I have even criticized the AMLU for some tactics and/or statments they've used/made.

However, we are now entering the land of the delusional when posters start thinking that any amateur (or the replacements) is/are as good as the AAA umpires. (Yes, even current amateur (college) guys who are former AAA umpires are not as good. Simply put when you work a lower level (and NCAA Division 1 is lower than AAA...let's not even go there) one's umpiring skills do not remain at the same level they were at while in AAA, period.)

Some say top amateurs are better than long-season "A" umpires...I disagree, but I can see their point of view. Some say top amateurs are better than "AA" umpires...I totally disagree, but yet the other side can still make a rational argument in support of their position. But implying that top amateurs (and replacements) are better than "AAA" umpires can be supported only by a delusion.

Lawump,

I really don’t think that anyone here is actually blaming the umpire in this situation. The amateurs were questioned because of their experience, only fair to some that this guy has his questioned as well. Personally, I think if the guy is working AAA ball he probably has enough experience of he wouldn’t be there.

The point I was making was that if this story was exactly the same, the only difference being “replacement umpire” instead of “pro umpire”, there would have been all kinds of guys on here saying, “there you go, another example of an inexperienced amateur not able to handle the pressure of pro ball. A REAL ump would have never let it get so far that he had to eject three people. He was probably telling that scab to bear down because he had become so frustrated with the horrible officiating that is ruining his chances to get called up”.

And please don’t tell me that it wouldn’t have happened. Christ, after the Young bat throwing incident there were guys here saying that would have never happened with a pro ump behind the plate and the “scab” got exactly what he deserved.

Oh, you are right...I agree...it would have happened. No doubt. I'm just suggesting that it is hypocritical to criticize, repeatedly, pro-AMLU posters for posting stories about replacement umpires and then turn around and post one showing an AMLU member in a negative light. (And I admit this hypocrisy may be a two way street.) And while the poster who originally posted the link to the story may have posted it as a "rib" to pro-AMLU posters (a "rib" I get and was amused by), other posters ("anti-AMLU" posters) have taken it seriously.

As an aside, during the strike, while I personally did not point to one specific story and slam that particular replacement...I did state that the large majority of stories discussing replacement umpires were "negative" in their discussion of the umpires. My point at that time was NOT to slam replacements, as much as it was to suggest that such press was needed to aid AMLU's cause. (The theory being that owners/management would eventually move toward AMLU's demands if there was too much negative press. Obviously, this did not happen (for a number of reasons) and WWTB's prediction of the result of the strike was pretty close to being on the money.)

I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph...several posters, at least to me, seem to be seriously critcizing this umpire...

Well, if they are putting the blame on the umpire I don’t think that that is right either. It wouldn’t be right if he was a replacement guy and it’s not right if he’s a pro guy. Could he have handled it differently? Probably, but once he gives that warning he has to follow through with it or it will just cause even more problems.

I’m not a pro guy, but I tend to let a lot more inside pitching and HBP go than most before giving a warning. But, I was a bit of a jerk I guess you would say when I pitched. I did peg a guy in high school once while I was warming up. :D

I posted it as a rib.
Ejections happen; they are not always indicative of the umpire's abilities or lack thereof. The media reports, either side, are so biased and ignorant that judging how it should have happened is pointless.
For the record I was asked, and declined.

Even in cold weather climes it's possible. This is my 29th year of umpiring, and in early April I passed my 4000th game. I reached this milestone because when I was a stupid youngster in his early to mid-20's, I did WAY too many games for the association that I was in back then. It was not uncommon for me to work 4 games on Saturday, 4 on Sunday, and a doubleheader every weekday.

That is the best post you have made yet on this board David.

Chris:

In case you are still interested, the list was compiled and posted by Shaun Francis, who identifies himself as a MiLB umpire in the Florida State League. He wrote me regarding an email sent to the owner of the site he used to publish the list. He claims he compiled the list from "very accurate" sources and has challenged my claim that there is at least one name on the list that doesn't belong there. His email is [email protected]

Does anyone need more proof that some AMLU guys had way too much time on their hands during the strike? :rolleyes: