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Sooooooo....today was the first day...
of perfect games being called in MiLB!
I kept expecting to see a parade or something from the fans and players because the AMLU guys are back doing games, because the job they do is SO OBVIOUSLY superior to what the "scabs" could do. But, no parade. Not even a news article yet. Hmmmmmmmm...Maybe people just didn't notice? :eek: |
We got the point a long, long, long time ago.
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I noticed.
There is a big difference between the fill-in's, AKA Scabs, and the real McCoy. Most likely, only players and umpires would notice the subtle differences, but to me, the differences stand out like shining diamonds (the real McCoy's). If nothing else, the MiLB guys actually get to their 'between inning' positions before the defense has left the field. I won't even get into taking a runner all the way to 3rd. There is a post out there, attempting to toot the horn about how the game was kept going by the scabs. Just keeping the game going, is a far cry from making the game roar along, as it should. What comes to my mind is a ship that is in trouble, and taking on water. They call up the Bilge Boys from below decks to scoop out the water, so the Deck Hands can fix the leak. Back down to the Bilge boys ! |
Morning gang, I'm still not feeling my own 'devils advocate self' but I saw this thread and wanted to weigh in.
Nick, please be careful generalizing about the replacement umpires. Some of them were former MiLB hires and many had pro school under their belts. Still others worked full time college schedules and brought many years of experience to the park. While we had a few tragic examples of officiating by some replacements, those stories always make the news. The fact that the spin machine was in full gear only exacerbated the issue. Hundreds of games went on, counted and had no more issues than any other night. Your analogy of a sinking ship is not spot on either. MiLB was in fine shape and didn't founder when the replacements walked through the gates. These guys may not be heroes to the AMLU membership, but they are to the people who count on the income they earn from the MiLB program in their town. Without the replacements, the season would have been scrubbed and careers may have ended. Please don't fall for the line that the amateurs out there were an embarassment. It took a lot of guts to do what they did. Some were threatened, blackballed and harassed in person and online. They still went out there and made the calls - some of the toughest ones that they'll ever see. They didn't do it with dreams of a professional contract either. That fallacy was perpetuated by Jiggy and a couple others. The replacements went out there to maintain America's greatest game. I've been to enough small ball parks in our country and have witnessed a pretty cool phenomena. In rural America (where many small clubs are), the family goes to the park as a special treat. When you see the face of a seven year old kid as he gets to sit fifty feet from the game, it is something special. They sit there with their mitts and hot dogs, praying that a foul ball comes their way. A lot of memorries get made at those small town ball parks. Sure, I'm making this sentimental but I think that's only fair when you consider that one group wanted to take those memories away. The game went on thanks to another group of guys who took up the challenge. They earned a few bucks and a couple of stories in the process. That's all right by me. The umpire is never bigger than the game. |
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I hope AMLU can fill their shoes the rest of the way. |
Actually, I saw the AMLU guys work Sunday's game that Roger Clemens pitched in AA. Maybe it's because I'm an umpire, but I immediately noticed by just seeing the highlights from the game, that those were not the scabs working that game.
I'm not trying to start anything, just making an observation based on a minute of highlights I saw on ESPN. |
Did you notice????????
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There was also a missed pickoff at 1st and 2 blown rotations (not rotating home and both guys on the bags going to 2nd for the same call) but as Nick said they busted as* between innings. |
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Are they busting butt between innings to pull a Randazzo? :) Imagine though, an umpire with maybe 3-5 years experience messing something up! |
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Only idiots go out to the left...and we have 5 of them in the Major Leagues. - Tim McClealand, as told to someone through a PBUC roving instructor. |
At 7:o5 Last Night I Noticed The World Spinning Smoothly Once Again.
Ball Parks Around The Country Were Filled With Perfection For The First Time This Summer...... The Amlu Spent The First Half Of The Season Like Penny-henny.... The Sky Is Falling, The Sky Is Falling.....or In There Case.......... The Game Is Crumbling, The Game Is Crumbling....well After That Didn't Work And It Was Very Clear That The Game Was Passing Them By.....well We Know The Rest.......that Extra 30 Bucks A Month And Yippee....... Perfection Has Returned To The Yard............ Sleep Easy All You Minor League Players There Will Be No More Pitches Missed, No More Kicked Calls, And Your New Umpires Will Bust A$$ To Their Positions Between Innings.......... |
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During the lockout/strike of 1994, the whole season was lost. No World Series, playoffs, or anything else. That hurt alot of people. During the AMLU strike, most of the possible replacement guys had a very tough decision to make. They put baseball on one side of the scale and the AMLU on the other. Guess which one prevailed. The game is bigger than all of us, whether you are union or not. I don't begrudge the replacements a bit. |
WWTB-
You say that many of these SCABs didn't go out there with the "dreams of a pro contract" and that this was a fallacy? You are wrong. In the New England area, the NCAA director of baseball umpiring sent a memo to all of his umpires stating, "This is a great opportunity. Working these games may even be a new avenue of approach to an MLB career." To say that there is no difference between amatures and professionals is naive... in any respect, be it umpiring, construction, or any other field of endeavor. As for former MiLB umps filling in, there is a reason they are former, right? Just my 2 cents. |
ctblu40.....is it possible some of the former minor league umpires retired???
or chose to leave the game on their own terms!!!!! you wouldn't be so arrogant as to assume they were all released now would you?????? like several of the amlu guys that decided not to return to work after the strike......were they fired or did they live under their own terms?????? |
My brother happens to be one of those guys who left on his own after the strike. Please don't confuse my previous comment with arrogance. Most former pros who left on their own wouldn't SCAB. It's the guys who can't let go who scabbed.
BTW- I personally know 4 previously released MiLB umps who refused to work these games. I know that doesn't represent a large proportion of the population under consideration here, but thats what I got. I call 'em as I see 'em. |
there you go again.....any former minor league ump that worked just can't let go huh??????
it is amazing how you can know the reasons why a guy would work or not work..... you are amazing........a mind reader no less........ |
I supose that it doesn't matter what I say, you'll never be convinced that those who SCABBED undermined the AMLU in their attempt to improve their positions.
Is it possible that many of these umpires retired because they were no longer able to partake in the natural progression of life (marriage, home purchase, starting a family) because the compensation from MiLB was so abismal? I concede that they are not all retired for the same reason. Can you concede that the SCABS undermined their collective efforts? |
Check out the pic
This is a highly trained umpire. Check out the pic. :D
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...TS07/606130425 No small ball, a staple of the Mud Hens' two previous wins over Ottawa, was necessary for Toledo to earn a 5-0 victory over the Lynx last night. In fact, the long ball - a two-out, three-run homer by Mike Hessman in the opening inning - combined with a complete-game six-hit shutout by starter Chad Durbin to give the Hens their third win in as many games. "What a great pitching performance by Durbin," said Ottawa manager Dave Trembley. "He threw all of his pitches for strikes, and we really didn't have a threat against him. He really had complete control of the game." While the right-handed Durbin allowed baserunners in six of the first seven innings, he allowed just one runner to reach second base until the seventh. In that frame Luis Terrero drew a walk, then took second on Val Majewski's single. Durbin struck out Brandon Marsters, but Hens third baseman Mike Hessman made a diving stop to keep Jason Bowers' single in the infield, loading the bases with two outs. "He always makes great plays," Durbin said of Hessman's shutout-saving dive. "He's as consistent a guy [defensively] as I've played with my whole career." Durbin kept his shutout alive by getting Eddy Garabito to fly out to end the seventh, then set down the Lynx in order in the final two innings. Durbin finished with a season-high 10 strikeouts and walked only two to improve to 5-3 on the year. "[Catcher Brian] Peterson did a great job behind the plate," Durbin said. "We got ahead of a ton of guys, and the curveball was really good. We worked the ball away most of the night, and we came in when we had to." Meanwhile the Mud Hens of-fense gave Durbin plenty of wiggle room by scoring four times in the first off Ottawa starter Brian Burres. Kevin Hooper got things started by beating out an infield single, then moved to second on a single by Tike Redman before coming around to score on Ryan Raburn's single. Burres seemed poised to end the threat when he got Ryan Ludwick to bounce into a double play. But Jack Hannahan worked Burres for a walk, and Hessman hammered a three-run homer off the scoreboard in left. "That was a pretty good at-bat with two outs, and it obviously was the key blow," Mud Hens manager Larry Parrish said of Hessman's 12th home run of the season. "Hessman has been swinging the bat a little better." Durbin's nine-inning completegame shutout was his first ever. He said the four-run cushion helped make the shutout possible. "Knowing they're behind, and knowing I'm going to throw strikes, they're not as aggressive," Durbin said. "If we're down four, it's a little different because they take different swings." The Mud Hens should have had another home run in the third inning when Raburn curved a line drive around the left-field foul pole with a runner on, but second-base umpire Chris Hubler overruled third-base umpire Joe Judkowitz and ruled the ball was foul. Parrish was thrown out of the game for arguing the call. Toledo added a run in the sixth off Burres. Hannahan walked, then was running when Hessman beat out a high hopper down the third-base line and raced to third. David Espinosa then singled Hannahan home. |
Just A Dose Of The Real World Here Ctblu40......
Apply For A Job......any Job.....have Your Interview......(pro School) Accept The Job With Its Hours, Benefits, And Yes Pay....... Then When It Is Time To Go To Work.....stand At The Front Door With A Little White Sign And Tell Your Employer I Will Not Work Unless You Pay Me More Money......... Hello Earth To Ctblu40........your Fired!!!!!! The Amlu Undermined It's Self With Their Poorly Concieved Notion That They Are Bigger Than The Game...... And If Guys Working The Games Hurt The Amlu And Their Attempt To Hold Baseball Hostage......so Be It....... If You Don't Like The Pay.......find Another Job.....the Game Will Be Just Fine Without You..... I Guess That Was Made All To Clear Now Wasn't It??????? |
As For The Mud Hens Game......an Ejection Already.......say It Isnt So.......
Mr Hubler How Could This Happen.......i Mean The Integrity Of The Game Is At Stake Here...... |
Okay SCUMP, we'll use your example.
You've applied and have been hired. You are in your early 20's with no real bills to speak of. Time passes and you have worked for the company for 10 years. You've never received a raise, yet your employer is making more money now than ever before. You see everyone else in the company getting better compensation than they initially received (players, front office, evaluators, owners). You ask for a raise and the boss say's, "Sorry, you're not an integral part of the team that makes this business a success. Forget it. By the way, you need to start contributing more out of your own pocket for your insurance benifits." So SCUMP, what do you do? You love your job, but you are getting hosed? You just say, "Okay... forget I asked?" If so, your a sap, and I have a job for you. BTW- You can't fire me for striking because I was smart enough to join a union and even the threat of firing me for striking is an unfair labor practice! |
No If You Are Not Happy With The Job, Hours Pay Etc And Your Boss Says No Raise....well Then You Must Decide Should I Stay Or Go??????
If You Are So Important The Boss Won't Let You Leave, But If You Are Not Quiet As Important As You Think, Well Then Grin And Bare It Or Hit The Road...... I Think Deep Down That Is What Hurts The Most For The Amlu..... You Are Not As Important As Your Ego's Have Lead You To Believe!!!! I Have An Idea.....start Your Own League.....set Your Own Salaries Hire Your Own People......build The Stadiums.....open The Gates Cause If You Build It.....they Will Come......but If You Strike...... Minor League Baseball Will Not Come To You!!!!! |
ct,
Are you saying that the AMLU didn't get a fair contract? Then why did the accept it? |
So that brings us back to the question I previously asked, Can you concede that the SCABS undermined the AMLU's effort to improve their professional positions? I've answered you... why can't you answer that?
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Yes You Might Be A Member Of A Union And They Didnt Fire You But They Also Didnt Meet Your Demands......
The Amlu Meet Theirs........ How Many Of The Union Guys Will Get Released After This Season???? I Can See The Letters Now......we Are Sorry To Inform You That Your Services For The Up Coming Season Will No Longer Be Needed.... But Hey There Are Lots Of Jobs Out There And Some Even Give You The Opportunity To Join A Union.....maybe When You Strike With Their Union You Will Have More Success. Keep Your Little White Signs Handy!!!!!! |
Mr B.
I'm not saying that they got neither a fair nor unfair contract. I'm saying that SCABs crossing their picket lines undermined their ability to pressure PBUC and MiLB to consider consessions. 65% of the membership ratified the contract, so the entire membership ended the strike. Fine. I just wonder how much they may have received had the amature ranks across the nation supported them? |
No The People That Worked Didn't Undermine Anything.....none Of The Men That Worked Were At The Table Negotiating.....
Once Again The Fearless Leaders Of The Amlu And The Arrogance That Surrounds Them Thought That They Were Bigger Than The Game And That They Would Shut Down Minor League Baseball.....well It Didnt Happen...... So Go Back To Work With A Smile Or Go Home......minor League Baseball Didn't Miss A Beat Without You.....now Did They????? |
Okay... you don't think they undermined anything. I suppose that you wouldn't mind if someone came to your place of employment and offered to do your job for less money than you get. Then I'm sure you wouldn't be upset if your boss said, "If you don't work for x dollars less, you'll be replaced." You'ld just walk away or accept the lesser money with a smile?
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And Why???
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They believed their leadership. They overvalued their importance. They want guarantees that have never been there. They threatened and isolated themselves from the "amatuers" with their actions and words. They were proven wrong and now it is everyone's fault but theirs. If you don't like the wages or conditions, fine. But take responsibility for what you have done, don't drag everyone into it and move on. |
Old
You have to waive the flies of off this dead, bloated equine to beat it.
Yet here we are. For those who don't know, I am an unapologetic AMLU supporter. And so, I have this question: if the decision to cross the picket line and work MiLB games was purely altruistic- "For Love of the Game" as it were- why are you still digging? If you were just providing a service to keep baseball going, with no thought of self-promotion, why are you on this board sarcastically calling the AMLU guys "perfect", pointing out their mistakes and going on about how you are just as good if not better than they are? True nobility does not blow its own horn or beat down its rivals unnecessarily. In a classic line from one of the 200 best baseball movies ever made- Major League, "Who gives a sh!t? It's gone." |
No Umpire Went To Anyones Place Of Employment......the Amlu Umpires Refused To Go To Their Own Place Of Employment To Work....just Walk Around With Little White Signs......
Sounds Like You Are Mad Because The Rest Of The Umpire World Didnt See Eye To Eye With The Amlu..... If You Owned A Bar And The Bartender Refused To Pour Your Booze Unless You Pay Him More Money....what Would You Do???? Replace Him Or Just Key Him The Keys To "your" Place Of Buisness..... It Is The Ego Thing That You And The Amlu Can't Seem To Get Past.... How Dare The Milb Not Give Us What We Demand.....we Are Professionally Trained......yadee Yadee Ya |
Lets get out of fantasy land here. The guys who worked as replacements didn't work to keep the "games going" anymore than the amlu was worried about the integrity of the game. One thing I've learned from this whole debacle, is that umpires are a bunch of whores and egomaniacs. They'll undercut anybody to work and prove who has the bigger sac.
Can we move on? The scabs are mostly guys who couldn't cut it, and the amlu got their asses handed to them. They look like sissies. THE END |
Roxanne.....you Dont Have To Put On The Red Light......
Those Days Are Over You Dont Have To Sell Your Body To The Night... Signed.....big Sac Ump |
You personally did not ask for their support in negotiating game fees ect. I agree. But, consider the number of amatures asking them "Speak at our banquet. Speak at our clinic. Can you get me game tix?" All of which they (at least the small number I personall know) do without asking anything in return. Ask yourself if you have ever benifited from one of these guys.
I have personally been helped immensely to improve my umpiring by some current and former members of the AMLU. That's why I choose to support them. I want to make clear that I am not nor have I ever been a professional umpire. I know quite a few and consider them friends. That's why their situation upsets me. |
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I also find it funny that many here that claim to think the union guys were stupid and not thinking of the bigger picture, were some of the first to get claim they turned down assignments to replace the AMLU guys. So if you feel the AMLU was so wrong, why would someone not work if asked? Practice what you preach if you ask me. Peace |
blue lawyer.....for the entire time the amlu was on strike.....people that worked were threaten, harrassed called names etc.....
tried to say the integrity of the game was a stake.....i am just really enjoying giving back a little taste of the medicine..... when it is your turn to drink it doesn't taste so good...... so drink up!!!!!! signed.....big sac, umpire whore..........egomaniac!!!!!! |
j rutledge....i did work.....i am a former minor league umpire.....evans trained
4 years minor league experience.......retired......for family reasons........ so i am practicing just what i preach....... if you dont like the pay, or the people that pay you, it is easy......find another job!!!!!!!! |
.........
All in favor of teaching SCUMP basic rules of grammar, syntax and usage, say "aye." SC, the content of your posts suffers dramatically because You Overuse Ellipses (..........) And You Type Everything In Title Case.
The content isn't generally very good, either, but whatever point you're attempting to make is obscured by this rather annoying typing style. Strikes and outs! |
Hey Lawyer............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .i Am Glad It Annoyes You.....................................all In Favor Of Annoying You Say Aye...........................although When I Read Your Post I Feel Like I Am Reading Straight From Ann Landers Or Mr Rogers............................................ ..............can We Say Boring!!!!
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Is it possible that SCabUMP worked these games to attempt to bathe in the waters of his youth? Has he no friends left in the Minor League system? Well... I guess he doesn't anymore:( |
Pwl....that Was Original If Nothing Else.........(for U Lawyer)...
Momma Said She Knows You.......(tiny Body Parts And All).......lil Dicky |
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Speaking From Experience With The Pay, Travel, Etc.....blu4o
I Was Happy To Have The Opportunity, I Knew The Terms Of My Contract When I Went To Work..... I Did Leave My Little White Sign In The Garage Though..... As For My Friends In The Game.....they Are Still My Friends, They Respect My Decision To Work Just Like I Respected Their Decision Not To... Life Is All About Choices.....i Sleep Well With Mine. If The Guys That Have Returned To Work Are Not Happy With Their New Labor Deal, Well I Dont Think The Good Folks At Milb Or Pbuc Will Try And Stop Them From Going Home. Stop Crying About The Deal And Work Or Go Home. I Did Enjoy My Bath.......grey Hair And All..... |
Nicky Boy I See What The Unions Have Done Throughout This Country, In Most Cases Priced Themselves Right Out Of Work....
I Am Not Nor Will I Ever Be A Member Of Any Labor Union. There Is Something Very Wrong When The Workers Of A Factory Or The Employees Of A Company Can Tell The Owners Of The Company What They Have To Do!!!!! If You Don't Like The Way The "owners" Run Things Well Hit The Road..... |
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I'm glad that you sleep well, but IMO that speaks volumes to your integrity and morals. BTW- I think you need a little history lesson on the formation of labor unions in the US. Perhaps you should read A Peoples History of The United States by Howard Zinn. I've had it with you. |
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I know SCUmp because I went to school with him. Just like myself, we did not get jobs. Just like myself, we moved on and raised our families and worked Independent Professional baseball (not affiliated Minor League Baseball) for the last 5+ years as an advocation/hobby (not a vocation). The only difference is that SCump worked indy ball full time in the summers where I just worked it locally (5 - 7 series per summer) Despite the image he portrays on this board, SCUmp is a good guy. With all due respect, I think he needs to becareful how he presents his experiences. Independent League umpires and Affiliated Minor League umpires both work professional baseball, however, the mentality, goals and "dreams" are quite different. I'll leave it at that because I just don't want to get in the middle of all this "mud slingging". |
The truth shall set you free!
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Sal As Always A Beacon Of Light In An Other Wise Dark Night....
A Good Guy That Deserved A Job. |
The state of affairs
Young, dumb and full of IT
JIGgy on one side and SCUMp on the other. "YOU went to pro school. YOU went to pro school." I am not impressed at all w/ the quality of either PROduck. |
let's see.... saump the last time i checked i wasn't trying to impress you.
let me check again.....no still not trying!!!!!! |
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I will try to remain above the fray and answer your question. Of course the replacements undermined the AMLU game plan. So what? The didn't make a tactical decision, the were simply instruments to an end. The AMLU took a chance on a contract and then gambled on a strike when they couldn't improve their position. The only leverage they had was that they were too talented to be replaced. This bluff failed miserably. MiLB and PBUC knew that they could find umpires capable of working these games and they did. In every battle (war, strike, marital conflict) there are always going to be things that effect the outcome. Some are out of your control and others, tactical blunders. If no one had come out to work those games, MiLB would have had to scrub the season, but honestly, that was never an option. Garbage, teacher and rapid transit strikes have been broken because of replacement workers. The MLB umpires went out on strike and they were successfully replaced. When you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. The AMLU never stood a chance with this one. You ask a final question about support. Not every amateur umpire crossed their picket line and worked. Yet, I read story after story that had AMLU spokesmen saying that amateur umpires are worthless. Their website was filled with tales of amateur woe. By the way, this was prior to the strike. For what it's worth, were you ever offered a contract by PBUC? |
WWTB-
To answer your question, no I've never been offered a contract by PBUC. I've never been to one of the schools (I would like to go just to learn though). I've never considered trying to make umpiring a career. It's certainly not a feesable line of work for someone with a family, travel more than pay playing a part in that. I was offered to be a replacement by my college assignor, but declined for various reasons. First was the fact that my younger brother is (was, he resigned with the ratification of the curren contract) a professional umpire, second is that I have friends that are professional umpires, and lastly, because I am a member of organized labor and believe in supporting other organizatios. I'm an associate member of the AMLU, and visit their website daily, and I have never seen these stories of amature woes that are posted. Maybe you could send me a link to one of these. The postings of amature woes that I've seen all occured while amatures were filling in as replacements. They were also mostly (95%) newspaper articles posted by the mother of one of the striking umpires. Now for the "good job" that amatures were doing as replacements. I work with at least 7 of the replacements in my area doing NCAA and below and I can tell you that although they are good umpires, they are nowhere near the quality of every professional I've ever seen. Keep in mind that prior to the start of the season, MLB sent a memo to all of the farm directors and staff members in MiLB and specifically requested that they be "patient with and respectful of" the replacements. If the amatures were expected to do just fine, then why the need for such a memo? I'm not posting here to bash the job the replacements did, I probably couldn't do much better. My real beef is that many upper echelon amatures think as if they are just as good as the professionals. This is simply not true. Every umpire, amature and professional, at any level needs to realize that there is always room for improvement. What caught my attention here was the initial sarcastic tone in the first posting in this thread. It seems as though this individual is hoping for the failure of others to validate his own abilities. To me this is a sign of some sort of inferiority complex. |
WWTB -To answer your question, no I've never been offered a contract by PBUC. I've never been to one of the schools (I would like to go just to learn though). I've never considered trying to make umpiring a career. It's certainly not a feesable line of work for someone with a family, travel more than pay playing a part in that.
Yes, most of us realize that if you want to make a decent living, one should not think of MiLB as the answer. That is why I cringe when I see posts from AMLU supporters that demand a living wage for a man and his family. I was offered to be a replacement by my college assignor, but declined for various reasons. First was the fact that my younger brother is (was, he resigned with the ratification of the curren contract) a professional umpire, second is that I have friends that are professional umpires, and lastly, because I am a member of organized labor and believe in supporting other organizatios. You made a noble decision based on your values. However, we know that what you belive is just and worthy may not be what I find appealing. (think Al Qaeda, Jihad, KKK or Black Panthers) Many of us were offered jobs as replacement umpires. I turned down several requests and was then offered a position of evaluator. I was honored but again decided against it. realizing that I am past my prime and that many others deserved a chance to challenge themselves were the only factors in my decision. The fact that you are part of organized labor is not a surprise to anyone who has read your comments. Most of us supported the actual umpires on the field, but hated the actions of the AMLU brass. The membership was sold a bill of goods and some of us saw through the charade long ago. While we understand that they deserve more, we also recognize that every employee believes this. We all think we are more valuable to the system than we really are. The MiLB umpires discovered this the hard way. I'm an associate member of the AMLU, and visit their website daily, and I have never seen these stories of amature woes that are posted. Maybe you could send me a link to one of these. The postings of amature woes that I've seen all occured while amatures were filling in as replacements. They were also mostly (95%) newspaper articles posted by the mother of one of the striking umpires. This is what made me want to respond in the first place. Come on...take off the rose colored glasses and read the site again. The tales of the Barons forfeit, a spoiled bat flinger, the 'Scab' photo section with commentary and countless press releases are there - if you really want to see them. Prior to the strike, there were surveys and a couple stories about how they found the idea of using 'high school' umpires preposterous. Numerous references to 'high school and college' umpires not being trained properly and that even the best of those couldn't replace a Rookie ball umpire were there for all of us to see. Many of us dismissed the newspaper articles for what they were...spin from an out of control union. Andy and Brian were repeatedly quoted, so you can't claim that an overprotective Mom was the evil genius. During the strike, the claims and spin became outrageous. I too have full access to that site. I read many things that would sicken the average amateur umpire. Now for the "good job" that amatures were doing as replacements. I work with at least 7 of the replacements in my area doing NCAA and below and I can tell you that although they are good umpires, they are nowhere near the quality of every professional I've ever seen. Keep in mind that prior to the start of the season, MLB sent a memo to all of the farm directors and staff members in MiLB and specifically requested that they be "patient with and respectful of" the replacements. If the amatures were expected to do just fine, then why the need for such a memo? Who said that they were equal to the AMLU guys? They were equal to the task, that is all that is, was and will be important. Umpires make mistakes and I have yet to see a perfect game called. These are 'professional' ball players in name only. They make ridiculous mistakes and many don't know the rules. The umpires are also expected to use this time to train and become better. The memo you mention was sent to defuse the potential uproar over the strike. MLB has a similar gag order in effect for the players and coaches - if they get out of line and question/mock the umpires, the league jumps in and fines them. The MiLB memo was a preventative measure for any hotheads who might find the strike a convenient way to make a name for themselves. It also kept the employees in line - does your company allow you to publicly ridicule other employees? The umpires are the arbiters of the game - questioing their judgement is not tolerable in the professional ranks. Mr. Young displayed his tolerance with AMLU and amateur umpires. I'm not posting here to bash the job the replacements did, I probably couldn't do much better. My real beef is that many upper echelon amatures think as if they are just as good as the professionals. This is simply not true. Every umpire, amature and professional, at any level needs to realize that there is always room for improvement. What caught my attention here was the initial sarcastic tone in the first posting in this thread. It seems as though this individual is hoping for the failure of others to validate his own abilities. To me this is a sign of some sort of inferiority complex. I will not speak for the original posting member. I can say that I can still umpire rings around most A level umpires. I am older and slower, but my eye is better trained than theirs. The best NCAA umpires can hold their own in the AAA. Watch the CWS and you'll find that the reaction time to a metal bat is much faster than that of the wood bat game. Too many people assume that once a player has made it to AAA he is ready for the show. Is that why so many wash out or realize that they have spent six years there and will never get the chance. How many umpires make it to AAA and never get the call? Yes, the game is demanding and more challenging than what most amateurs will ever see. Having been there, I know it is far easier for me to call a pro game than an amateur game. The pitches are better, the fielding remarkable and the consistency beyond anything most us ever see. The truth of all this is that the AMLU umpires think they are irreplaceable. The world has seen that this is not the case. Like I said, MLB replaced their umpires before, why didn't the AMLU realize the folly of their gamble? If an amateur can step onto Fenway, Busch, Wrigley or Arlington's turf and do the job, it shouldn't be a surprise that it could happen in San Jose, Lynchburg, Racine and Springfield. Amateurs have improved through dedication, training, fitness and clinics. Like you wrote, you would like to attend a pro school but have no intention of making it a career. Many amateurs do the same thing. They pride themselves on the thankless job they do - day in and day out. Some work for a hot dog and cola others make great game fees. They still know that when it comes time to make the call, they can and will do it. Respect the fact that many of us saw another side to the union. Some of us are part of organized labor and others disdain it. We simply love the game and don't like to see it taken hostage. The AMLU tried to steal that from all of us and some of us stepped in to prevent it from happening. |
ctblu40....you got that tone from an umpire that recieved the very same tone from the amlu once they chose not to work.
not only did the amlu want the replacement umpires to fail in order to validate their worth to milb and to make their position stronger, they harrassed by phone and email, went to yards around the country to call them names, they even put their pictures on the internet. so hey lets call the kettle black can we??? looks like the inferiority complex lies in the amlu's bed. your beef with the "upper echelon" about wether they are as good or not is silly. they are all human beings capable of error and from the top to the bottom they will from time to time make mistakes. i would ask who is the best big league umpire? who is the worst? one thing is certain. milb did not think that the replacements were bad enough to warrant crawling back to your union and saying please come back. amlu took milb's deal so don't flater yourself please. the amlu guys that voted to go back to work saw the truth. settle or be gone... so wether you think the replacement guys could do the job or not the people that put the product on the yard and the people in the seats "did not" miss a beat while you were gone!!! |
Maybe I missed it.
I thought the strike was over about 10 days ago and the AMLU umpires went back to work yesterday.
If I'm right on the facts (and Lord knows I can get the facts wrong, ask any coach), I'm wondering where all this hostility against AMLU guys is coming from. They were traitors to the game when they struck. Then they wussed out and settled for a half-deal. Now they are not nearly as good as the replacements . . . especially if I was one of the replacements. You know, the hostility aimed at AMLU, if this board is any indication, is equal or greater to that AMLU aimed at scabs. They are back on the field. Rehashing the "I'm just as good, I was noble and they were selfish, they are greedy" talking points for the 4,000th time gets us where at this point? Dudes. Really. Move on. Strikes and outs! |
Thanks for the memo...
Topics get repeated here all of the time. Those of us who have been around a few years have witnessed just about everything being recycled. While it may seem tedious to some, new faces pop up all of the time. Some do Google searches and link here. I don't like the idea that a newbie can read that the AMLU was wronged in all things baseball. They set themselves up for disaster from the beginning. The strike cost them much more than a couple months pay. |
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I am not a union member either. I was once, and was totally disgusted with it. I have spent many years on the management side, dealing with unions. I have successfully broken union representation, by treating workers the way they deserve to be treated, compensated them with a fair salary, and offered benefits fitting the market. The funny thing is, if you treat workers fairly, and with respect, they don't concentrate on the numbers as much. Unions don't get that. They just want to raise salaries, so that their percentage from the worker's paycheck goes up. In some companies, unions are still a necessity, because of the unfair (mid-evil) way employees are treated. Yes, the worker's could just say 'see ya', but what if it is a necessary service company ? Say, the only hospital in a 100 mile radius ? If that facility shuts down because nobody will work there, the community loses. Better to vote the union in, and keep the place running. If a company doesn't want a union (running) their company, all they have to do is run it right, and the unions will never be able to get in. I say these things from first hand experience, on both sides of the coin. |
Hey Lawyer!!!! Did you work as a replacement????
If not how would you know what kind of hostility was aimed at those of us who did???? |
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I am so tired of this. But at least it makes sense. I do know what kind of hostility you carry. You are no different than any other student at umpire school that wanted a job, didn't get one, and felt as though you got screwed. Well guess what, you weren't good enough then and you aren't now. What a shock that you would scab...it all makes sense now. You are nothing but a bitter a**hole at those MiLB instructors for not sending you. Looks like they got this one right...you are pathetic SCUMP. At least those instructors announce their name publicly and tell you that you aren't good enough. You can't even do the same. Keep hiding in the shadows and throw those stones at the AMLU house. You are a joke! BTW...independent ball is something to be proud of, but it is not professional baseball. Don't fool yourself and tell the truth when you tell people what levels you have worked. Actually, you are only trying to convince yourself that you are good enough. Job well done...you can rest assured that in your own mind you are still the best. Now go back and read your umpire school evaluation again and come back to reality. |
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While it is true that SCUMP has some hostile feelings towards the striking umpires, it is your reply that sounds the most bitter and antagonistic. I suggest decaf. I was one of the fortunate few that paid my money, sweated and worked, listened and performed well enough to be encouraged to take the shot. I subjected myself to the MiLB grind and count those memories among my best and worst. I am very well versed at the role we played and the lifestyle. I believe that I am more than qualified to comment of the AMLU and the issues MiLB umpires face. All along, I have empathized with the individual umpire and taken shots at the brass. Those that haven't walked in my shoes can certainly read and hear what is being said. They can also form an opinion on an internet discussion board. You said that independent Minor League baseball is not professional baseball. Why is that? Are you saying because they aren't formally affiliated with Major League baseball they don't count? Hmmm - methinks that you sound like someone on a pedestal, not a soapbox. Many current and former MLB players herald from the independent leagues across the US, Mexico and Canada. The umpiring is pretty solid and I enjoyed more than a few easons with some great clubs. As far as I recall, the pay was good, the players received contracts and remuneration. The parks were nice, usually pretty well filled and the local radio stations carried the games. What exactly is your definition of professional baseball? |
Hey Arnold That Was Real Intelligent Saying Indy Ball Is Not Professional Ball.
I Guess Guys Like, Ricky Henderson, Jose Canseco, Mitch Williams, Lance Johnson, Jack Armstrong, Jamie Navarro Aren't Professional Players Either????? That Is Just A Fraction Of The Former Big League Players That Have Played That (non Pro Ball). You Showed Us All Just What A Dumb A$$ You Really Are With That Statement. As For Me Being Bitter About Not Getting A Job In (real Pro Ball) Here's A News Flash. I Was 38 Years Old When I Attended The Evans Academy And Did Not Try To Get A Job, So Your Bitter Pill Just Doesnt Hold Much Merit. I Never Said Or Mislead Anyone As To What Level Of Baseball I Worked. I Did Work Four Years Of Minor League Baseball And Wether You Think The Northern League And The Atlantic League Is Professional Baseball Or Not Heres Another News Flash. It Is Minor League Baseball, They Are Paid To Play (isnt That What Decides Your Status As An Amature Or A Professional). So Arnold The Pig Go Back To Your Slop, And Hey If You Are A (minor League Umpire) Try Not To Spend All That Money Your Making (that Extra 30 Bucks A Month) In One Place. Would You Like "swiss Or Chedder" To Go With Your Whine Arnold?? |
Arnold I Will Give You The Benifit Of Doubt Here,
Maybe You Got Confused When You Said Indy Ball Isnt Professional Baseball. Now "the Over Thirty Womens Slow Pitch League You Work" That "is Not" Pro Ball. |
You have no idea what you are talking about. I will say that independent leagues are a form of professional baseball for all the reasons WWTB stated. They are payed to play. But if I worked it I would say I worked in a professional independent league. To say professional baseball is misleading without giving the league. My definition of professional is affiliated baseball with MLB.
However, with that being said, it is definitely not minor league baseball. At least an argument can be made about the professional statement, but minor league? Ok, then these players are going to climb the ranks to the major independent league? What teams are these independent leagues affiliaited with? And the players don't make the league. They may have former players like Ricky Henderson, but they are not brought in to develop them, they are there to be a side show to the fans. You can call me what you want, I could give a s*it. But my hostility for people like SCUMP is because I put in my time and made it to AAA. I have given my umpiring resume. I know what it is like to be evaluated in the minor leagues. When I was in AA we shared rooms. When I was in A ball we made peanuts. Every thing the professional umpires receive today is something that the next group has tomorrow. That is why MiLB loves people like SCUMP. You can keep the games going with the players being ordered not to argue, and you truly believe you belong. As I said before, just remember that when people ask you about scabbing remind them that you were not the first choice (AMLU was) nor their second (People like me were) I am being generous when I say you were their third. But at the risk of being consistent, when you now tell people that you worked AAA or AA or whatever league you scabbed...make sure you mention the "scab" part. Otherwise you are just being misleading again. The AMLU may have made mistakes, but they still made them out in the open. They tried to do something that was arguably impossible. And now they have to deal with a scab that not only thinks he knows what it is like to be a minor league umpire, but also plays monday morning quarterback on a complex labor situation. OK SCUMP...I will give you the benefit of the doubt. It must have been really tough to walk away from those independent leagues after four years because the money wasn't good. You had to pass up on your dreams...I guess the dream would be that when many MLB players retire they come to your league and draw a bigger crowd. Must have been a difficult decision to make... |
Arnie Once Again You Dazzle Us With Your Brillance.
Players, Some Former Big League And Minor League Players Choose To Play Indy Ball Because It Doesn't Limit Them To Who They Sign With If Approached By A Minor Or Major League Club. It Is A League That Gives Players A Chance To Continue Playing And In A Lot Of Cases Is Their Avenue Back To The Bigs. Some Of The So Called Side Show Guys.... Chris Wider Played Indy Ball Last Year And Was Called Up To The White Sox, The Were World Champs Last Year. Jered Weaver Played Indy Ball This Year.....called Up To Anahiem Angels....big League Debut This Year....arnie Joe Winkelas Called Up To The Brewers This Year From Indy Ball. Jose Canseco Played Indy Ball Then Went To The White Sox And Hit 19 More Home Runs That Year......side Show Huh. These Are Only A Few Arnie.... Learn Your Facts Before You Pop Off There Bitter Boy....... By The Way Why Would Two Current Minor League Umpires....john Brammer For One The Other One Slips My Mind Lower Themselves To Work In The Atlantic League During The Strike???? Jim Evans Also Is A Consultant To The Atlantic League (sideshow) Non Professional Ball.... Mark Facto (former Minor League Ump) Is The Umpire Supervisor.... Why Dont You Give Mark A Call There Arnie And See If He Thinks The Atlantic League Is A Side Show And Really Isn't Minor League (pro Ball).... Dumb A$$ |
Hey Arnie When You Were In A Ball Making Peanuts, Did You Put The Peanuts In The Beer You Obviously Were Crying In....
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Want To Know More About The Side Show Atlantic League?
Go On Line To.. The Atlantic League Of Professional Baseball..... Red All About Side Show Baseball At His Finest...... |
Note to Arnold
Dude-
Many of us get it. Here’s the deal: you are arguing with a guy who thinks that independent baseball is equivalent to the minors, and apparently, therefore, guys who umpire independent ball are “as good as” AMLU guys. There are other points I could make, but in the spirit of civility, I won’t. I’m suggesting that you have won the argument. I’m suggesting that keeping this thread going is counterproductive. Strikes and outs! |
AMLU leadership
Did Andy Roberts really quit after negotiating this contract?
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I Have Never Said Or Implied I Was Better Than Any Umpire At Any Level.
I Would Ask Though When The Amlu Went On Stike Did Milb Crawl Back To The Union And Ask Them To Save Their Season??? No When The Replacement Umpires Went To Work, The Amlu Thought They Would Fail Miserably And It Just Didn't Happen. It Must Hurt To Find Out Just Being A Member Of The Amlu And A Minor League Umpire Doesn't Make You Gods Gift To The Game.... I Am Still Waiting On An Answer As To Why John Brammer And One Other Umpire Would Stoop So Low As To Work In The Indy Atlantic League While They Were On Strike? Why Would Jim Evans Get Involved With The League. Why Would Mark Facto (former Minor League Ump) Be The Supervisor Of Side Show Ball? Why Would So Many Former Big League Players And Minor League Players Play There And How Could So Many Of Them Make It Back To The Show Playing Side Show Ball? |
Bob Price Is The Other Minor League Umpire That Worked.....
Brent Rice....former Minor League Ump And Instructor At One Of The Pro Schools Currently Working Side Show Ball. Matt Beaver Former Minor League Ump Working Side Show Ball. Jaun Gonzaleaz Just Signed With The Side Show... J D Drew Started With The Side Show..... |
I still dream of the first day.
A local high school kid signed a MLB contract with a huge bonus.
He continued to play local summer ball until reporting to rookie ball in the fall. If I call his summer games, then I am a PRO UMP. A local MABL players goes to Phoenix and wins a national home run contest. Several of his teammates have A, AA and even AAA experience. If I call their games during the summer, then I am a PRO UMP. Better yet, I call the entire season for a local wood bat league made up of local college players. If I call their games, then I am now a qualified NCAA UMP. No, I am still a local JV ump who doesn't mind taking meaningless summer games while the REAL PRO and NCAA umps do whatever they do. As much as others think I tend to elevate my status on this board, I still believe I keep a good perspective for the game. A dream is ..., but a dream. SDS, care to share your vitals again? I dare to bet some of these guys can't even carry your mask to the plate. |
These Players And Umpires Are Right There Along Side The Bearded Lady At The Plate Meeting.......
Step Right Up.....see Jaun Gonzalez Hit A Home Run While The Freak With No Arms Or Legs Rolls A Cig Up With Just His Mouth. See The Incredible Bearded Lady Shave Will John Bramer Calls Balls And Strikes..... Its A Real Carnival Atmosphere Here In Side Show Baseball Land!!!! Peanuts Get Your Peanuts Here.....bob Price Yells Out From Behind First Base As He Calls The Last Runner Out On A Wacker. Yee Haa It's Side Show Baseball Coming To A Town Near You.... |
For what it's worth, this is how I distinguish between the two:
The AMLU are Professional Umpires that work Affiliated Minor League Professional Baseball. They are guys that are considered "in the game". They are Professional Umpires because that is their career. SCump, myself, etc are amateur umpires that work Independent (Minor League) Professional Baseball. We are NOT considered as being "in the game" and we work these leagues mainly as an advocation (hobby) rather than a career. I think there's a difference between working pro ball and being a Professional Umpire. We are amateur umpires that work professional baseball - the AMLU are Professional Umpires that work Minor League baseball. This goes back to why I said people need to be careful how they list their experience. As an unwritten courtesy to MiLB umpires, I never reference my summer work as Minor League baseball - I simply term it as Independent Pro Ball. |
Looks like I struck a nerve here...whats the matter SCUMP? To answer your questions, those AMLU guys probably worked the indy leagues to stay sharp. But I guess you are wondering why they left the indy leagues when the strike was over. According to your argument, it should be another way to the Majors. Get a clue. Weaver was a bonus baby that played there until he signed a contract. I'm sure his talent was hidden until he emerged into a big league player in the indy leagues. Ricky Henderson is absolutely a side show. Canseco is also a side show. What else you got? Here is a news flash...just like the professional baseball players don't consider indy players equal, they don't throw it in their face. But when one of them pops off and tries to say that they belong in AA, AAA or MLB, I promise you they put them in their place. COnsider this your umpiring education. I guess you didn't get the memo at umpire school. The school will select you for the minor league evaluation course "IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH." If not, then they try to place you in indy leagues to help you get better, BECOME GOOD ENOUGH, and go back to umpire school.
As for the umpires for the Atlantic league, their supervisor has one tie to minor league baseball. When someone gets selected from school and attends the eval course, they MIGHT get a phone call from the MiLB supervisors to see how his time there went. That is all. Brent Rice was a great umpire that got released way too soon. Depending on his personal situation, he should go back through. Maybe that is why he is where he is. Speaking of Brent, why don't you ask him his opinion of indy leagues. I believe Brent is an instructor down at Wendelstadt. I would guess that he recognizes the difference between the two and would not try to hide that indy leagues are not minor league baseball. A final note on Brent, I hear he is a great instructor. My friends say that he got in the game when he was very young. He was in AA by the time he was 21. That is an awesome accomplishment. Maybe he got there too soon. But he is still young enough to give it another shot if he can affors it. I wish him well. I will also venture to say that he is the best umpire the Atlantic league will ever see. So SCUMP, it appears as though you are rattled. Keep defending your resume and try to tell people that you were a minor league umpire. You are a liar and a joke. Not that I agree with this term, but in this case SCUMP you truly are a Charlie. You think you belong somewhere you have no business being. You give amateur umpires a bad name. I have worked several clinics and attended even more. I have yet to see someone advertise that their instructors/clinicians are minor league umpires in the indy leagues. But these same clinics will send out mailings and have people come because the real minor league guys will be there and know what they are talking about. I am exhausted talking abou this. I will take your advice Bluelawyer, I will no longer continue in this thread. SCUMP is bitter and doesn't have a clue. To put it in words he might understand...So long Charlie... |
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No offense Sal, but saying that you are associated with a person like SCUMP is not a good thing. Your posts seem to be a position of reason where his are bitter and uninformed. My comments to him are in no way directed at umpires like yourself. You, my friend, give those same amateur umpires a good name. Now I am officially done on this thread. |
This Is Were We Do Not Agree Brother Sal.
A Good Friend Of Mine Is In His Tenth Year As A Professional Umpire, All Of These Years Are In Indy Ball. Umpires Out Of Either Pro School Would Struggle If Not Fail To Work In The Atlantic League. The Caliber Of Play Is At The Very Least A Double Aa Level If Not Aaa. Just A Few Facts About The Atlantic League. Its On Their Web Site If Anyone Is Curious. Since 1998 Over 300 Players With Big League Time Have Played There. 70 Of Them In 2004 Alone. In The Last 7 Years Over 170 Players Have Had Their Contracts Sold To A Major League Orginazation 15 Managers And Coaches Have Major League Playing Time. Sparky Lyle, Jose Lind, Tommy Herr, Bud Harelson Just To Name A Few. Guys That Played In The Atlantic League That Played Their Way Back To The Bigs. Reuben Sierra Milt Cuyler Joe Grahe Felix Jose Jose Canseco David Lindquist Curtis Pride James Lofton Tim Raines Joe Borowski Carlo Baerga Brandon Puffer Andy Shilbo Bobby Hill Brendan Donnelly Jose Lima Rickey Henderson Pedro Borbon Jr Brady Raggio Mitch Melusky Mike Glavine Kirk Bullinger Carlo Jau Pudlido Jose Offerman Bill Pulsipher Chris Widger Side Show Baseball......oh Really |
The Bitter Pills Lies With The Guys That Are Working For That Extra 30 Bucks A Month......
I'm Sure The Guys That Voted Against It But Returned To Work Are Real Happy.......bitterly Happy... It Will Be Interesting To See How Many Of The Umpire Studs Are Still Working This Time Next Year. Thanks For Striking...... |
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Is the Atlantic League regarded as a higher league (talent wise) than the Northern League? I find it hard to believe it even comes close to AAA. My guess is the Atlantic is similar to A to High A??? |
The Northern League Limits The Number Of Players With Big League Time.
The Atlantic League Allows Anyone To Play If They Are Good Enough. I Would Say Look At The Number Of Northern League Players That Have Resigned With Minor League Clubs And How Many Have Played Their Way Back To The Show. Clearly More Former Big Leaguers Play In The Atlantic League Than The Northern And Since The Atlantic League Started In 1998 I Am Sure More Of The Atlantic League Players Have Resigned With Organized Baseball Than The Northern. Also How Many Players Since 1998 Have Played Their Way Back To The Big Leagues? I Have Worked Both Leagues And There Really Is No Comparison To The Quality Of Play. |
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Yippie! |
Ctblu40 Did You Attend Little League Pro School And Little League Pbuc Too?????
Wow......you Are The Man!!!!! I Heard You Worked The T-ball World Series As Well......awesome!!!! Umpires Around The Country Use You To Set The Bar For Success.... |
That's all you got??? C'mon SCabUMP... dig deep and be more sarcastic than that.
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Your Propensity To Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word Is Freaking Annoying And Makes Your Posts Hard To Read.
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Hey Crowder Pea's I Have An Idea.......don't Read Them!!!!!!
I Did Like The Use Of Such A Big Word Though...propensity...wow.. A Smart Ump At That.....i Bet You Really Know The Rule's Front To Back.....impressive!!!!! |
Ctblu40.....do You Need A Hug?????
What The World Needs Now Is Love Sweet Love.... It's The Only Thing That There's Just To Little Of....... Blu40 Do You Feel The Love????? |
Mrcrowder
On this point, you and I agree completely. I Don't . . . . . . . . . . Like . . . . . . Useless . . . . . . UpperCase . . . . . . . Letters . . . . . . And Ellipeses. . . . . . . but if you tell him about it, he does it more. So, in his own way, he's hijacked every thread he's posted on.
Strikes and outs! |
Ellipeses......wow Lawyer.......you And Crowder Pea's Are Using
Some Pretty Big Words!!!!! Impressive...........no I Mean It This Time...........impressive!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Super San Dog Steve....i Feel You Man I Really Feel You....
I Dig The Don King Look Anyway. Thanks Again For Caring. I Just Feel So Good In Side....so Good |
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Pwl I Feel Ya Baby......i Feel Ya!!!!
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Sorry Dave But Finally Ive Been Nailed....this Cell Phone Is Kicking Me Down Hard......help Help !!!!!
Kinda Like San Dog Stevie Wonder..... |
Stamina!
SCabUMP...
Don't you eat? You've been posting for about 8 hours straight. |
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