Visit To Mound And Other things
 

1. Before the inning the coach goes out to the field and positions his players and gives his pitcher a quick talk.

Would this be considered a visit?

2. Also does the pitcher have to wear two color of the same socks?

Thanks,

Ted

Ted,

1. No, this would not be considered a visit unless the umpire judged that he unduly delayed the start of the half-inning.

2. Technically, the pitcher may wear a different color sock on each foot/leg as long as all of his teammates do the same. As to whether you require they all wear the (let's say) green sock on the left leg & the yellow on the right, or whether it is more properly dictated by the "handedness" of the player, I can't find an authoritative ruling, so I don't know.

JM

Under NF rules this is not considered a visit if the coach does not delay the start of the inning. There was a casebook play about this at one time, not sure it is still there. I am sure someone will look it up soon. I am sure the same is true under NCAA rules as well.

I know of no such rule that requires such a thing other than being in the proper uniform. If the uniform rule is the issue, it has nothing to do with the pitcher alone. All players would be in violation. Other than that I do not see any reason to make a big deal over this issue.

Peace

Rut is correct, and it is the same in OBR. As long as the coach does not delay the start of the inning he can talk to the pitcher. They still only get one minute to complete the conference/warm-up pitches.

A couple of Saturdays ago, I had a Pony League game where the pitcher and catcher each had one red and one blue sock, on a team with red, white, and blue as their primary colors. I think it would have been OOO to have told them to change. Unless the opposing coach gets nit-picky with it, in which case he had better not violate one single rule the entire game.:)

Coach, you kidding me, right?

I wouldn't put it past some of the coaches out here. Take my game tonight for example. Working solo, bases loaded, 0 outs, can of corn to left-center. I'm lining up the catch and the tag at 3rd, and then glancing quickly to 2nd for that tag also. The run came in to score, and the throw went to 3rd, but R2 was safe there. R1 moved up to 2nd on the throw. The coach had his pitcher appeal the tag-up at 1st base.:rolleyes:

After the game, I discovered that I was parked next to that coach, and I asked him how come he appealed first base, when I was watching the catch, the tag at 3rd, and quickly checking the tag at 2nd, and that working solo I would have no clue as to when the runner at 1st left. He said, "yeah, I know, I was just hoping maybe you saw him out of your peripheral vision."
Oooooooooooooookay.:)

It amazes me that anyone really cares about color of socks. If a coach even mentioned something like that to me, I would tell him to be careful what he asks for.

Had a rat try this one a few weeks ago:

R1 and R2, fly to right, I'm PU. BU goes out to get the catch, I'm watching runners. None of them even remotely come close to leaving early, I hear the rat in the dugout quickly start talking about appealing to 1B, which they do and I call safe. They look out at PU confused as to why HE didn't call it.

Apparently, they were only doing it to cause trouble since they saw his back was to the play and figured it was his call. Can't wait to have him again this weekend...I doubt he'll see the end of the game this time around.

I had a coach start for the mound on the pitcher's fourth warmup (of 5, FED rules) during a regional game earlier this week. I told him to not go out there or I'd charge him with a trip. There was no way he wasn't going to delay the start of the inning and I didn't want to have to charge him unless that's what he really wanted. He didn't, but he was annoyed I wouldn't let him go out there "for free."

Okay, I'm going to assume (very risky) that your partner really didn't "go out" to the outfield on this play. If he did, then he has blown his coverage. His responsibility was to line up the catch and the tag at 2nd base, and to glance at the tag up at 1st base. He should have been over close to the edge of the infield grass near the shortstop area to line up the catch and tag. Your coverage should have been to get to 3rd base for the possible advance of R2. It was, using regular mechanics, the BU call on the retouch at 1st base (lower priority than the retouch of 2nd), as well as any play on R1 at 1st or 2nd, and on R2 at 2nd.

so, under this logic, you would allow the coach to go to the mound at the start of each inning and let him chat with his pitcher during warmups, provided he's out of there before delaying the start of the inning?

if you can find me an OBR passage that supoports that then i'll buy it. until then, whenever he goes to the mound, provided they haven't invited me along for an injury session, i'm charging them with a trip.

i can honestly say i don't see anything right in this post. BU going out from infield in 2 man system? not good. PU calling runner safe on appeal? not good. and i assume this is a typo, "They look out at PU confused as to why HE didn't call it," and you meant to say BU. i'd look at you confused, too, if you, the PU, called anyone safe on appeal on this play.

SDSteve had it right, you, as the PU, should have been up the 3B line for the tag and advance of R2 into 3B. everything else belongs to BU.

There is nothing in OBR, JEA, J/R, MLBUM, or NAPBL manuals which confirm or deny this practice. The closest thing is that you can't make a 2nd trip while the same batter is at bat without removing the pitcher. This infers that the first trip was made while the batter was at bat, and not prior to him being announced. Batters are not considered announced until after the pitcher has completed his preparatory pitches.

I have read no language that considers a pre-inning conference to be a trip to the mound, so I allow it. If the coach delays the pitcher from completing his warm ups, I go by the one-minute rule and tell the catcher to send it down. Then if the coach squawks, I hit him with a trip and then he can have a real conference.

i think there's no language because a trip is a trip is a trip. no matter what the circumstances are of when he goes, by going out there he has met the requirements of what defines a trip.

bobby and Steve,

The only thing I have been able to find is the BRD #144 CONFERENCES: CHARGED TO DEFENSE: BETWEEN HALF INNINGS. Carl C. references a communication with the late Barney Deary from 12/85:

Carl also references a FED ruling that says it is allowed if there is no delay and that NCAA provides "no provisions".

On the "different colored socks" question, Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger seem to offer conflicting opinions, so I don't know what to think. ;)

JM

So at the end of the inning the 3rd base coach walking across the diamond towards his first base dugout, stops picks up the ball, hands it to his pitcher who has hustled out to the mound and says "Remember to keep the proper arm slot" and proceeds to the dugout.
You're charging him with a visit?

JM,

Thanks for finding that, I had the BRD right in front of me for another question, and didn't even think to look there. I have to remember to use that tool when looking for pro interps.

If you charge a coach a trip for that, you're getting yourself into big trouble for the rest of the game...for something that's not illegal...think of a 3rd base coach crossing the diamond into the first base dugout...he can be out there until the cather yells "2" or whatever they yell before they throw it down...be careful what you choose to enforce...especially when it's not written in the rules...not that big of a deal....let it ride man.

Of course I'm not charging a visit. It was a question to Bobby.
In his post he said

"i think there's no language because a trip is a trip is a trip. no matter what the circumstances are of when he goes, by going out there he has met the requirements of what defines a trip."

That sounds pretty black and white and I was just wonderin' if that is what he really meant.

NI ump...i agree with you...my post was in response to the original question about charging the coach a trip...happy umping...

NIump50, I don't think johnnyg08 was directing his post to you, I think he was agreeing with us, and was actually addressing BobbyB.:)

Well, then.......never mind.

Sorry!!!!.

depending on a couple of things, yes i am.

if this is an indy ball game or a minor league fill in assignment (now that that crap has been settled) AND the comment about the arm slot, or a discussion on pitching, situation, or something strategy-related is audible to both myself and the opposing coaching staff, i'm charging a trip. if it's in quick passing (i.e. "no stop"), only audible to the pitcher, and i catch a slight wind of it, then i'd probably turn a deaf ear.

high school is a different world.

So, you don't think that the professional interpretation from the late Barney Deary, the head of the Umpire Development Program, is good enough for you? This has been the pro interpretation for this subject since 1985, and has not been changed with any contrary ruling, so if you are charging a trip for this, you are doing it in violation of the rules. It's also OOO as hell. If you are trying to be "Barney Fife" out there, you're begging for trouble.

bobbybanaduck,

Then, according to the former director of the PBUC (nee BUD), you would be wrong. Your action would be that of an OOO who clearly does not understand the proper application of the rules relevant to this situation and misunderstands the role of the umpire in the game.

On the other hand, I would completely agree that "high school is a different world." Not, of course, in this particular respect, but in so many others.

JM

A first base coach walking by the mound to have brief talk with pitcher is not a trip. A coach coming out of the dugout should also not be a trip, as long as the pitcher gets his warmups in the alloted time.

I might add I have never seen a coach come out of the dugout to talk with the pitcher for warmups. He could do that in the dugout before the pitcher went out.