In Denver we get a lot of lightning in the afternoon. Often coaches and umpires that I have worked with do not want to delay a game even if the lightening is right over the field. I always feel pressured to continue playing no matter how close the lightning is.
1)I was just wondering how other umpires feel about this topic(to delay or not delay)?

2)I was also curious if anyone has ever officiated a game where lightning struck a player or umpire?

3)What are the statistics of getting hit by lightning on a baseball field?

4) How do you know if the lightning is close or not?

5))Do you ignore the lightning and continue playing or will you delay the game immediately?

Greg

<i> Originally posted by Gre144 </i>

<b> In Denver we get a lot of lightning in the afternoon. Often coaches and umpires that I have worked with do not want to delay a game even if the lightening is right over the field. I always feel pressured to continue playing no matter how close the lightning is.

1)I was just wondering how other umpires feel about this topic(to delay or not delay)?

4) How do you know if the lightning is close or not? </b>

Greg had this situation yesterday. We saw lightening, stopped the game and then waited. If storm passes, continue (provided there is still light of coarse).

I'm not a weatherman and we all know how right they are. A baseball game isn't worth it should we guess wrong. Let the storm pass and continue, otherwise wait for another day.

I know the problem, coaches do not want to spend money on another game FEE for the officials, but that's really not our problem.

Also you said the umpires did not want to stop game even if lightening is directly over the field. I do not understand that one. Also, it's been my experience, parents start screaming if you do not get the kids off the field whenever they see lightening.

God forbid something happens, what is this group of umpires and people running the league going to tell the judge.

I know you feel pressure if other blues refuse to stop game, but this is somthing that should be brought up at your meetings. It only takes one incident. IMO not worth it.

Pete Booth

Greg,

Discretion is the better part of valor. If you see lightning, then get everybody off the field. It doesn't matter what the coaches think. I had one game this year where we saw lightning and got everybody off the field. It drizzled for a while and the lightning went around the field and off in the distance. We got the players back on the field and 15 minutes later we had to pull them off for good because we got hammered with rain. THe second time I waited because I wasn't sure how close the lightning was. I was lucky, I should have gotten them off the minute I saw it. Here in NC, we had a 12 year old struck by lightning a couple of weeks ago while standing on 3B in the middle of a game. Luckily, he's going to be OK. There were some differing opinions as to how quick the storm came up, but you can see that you don't need to mess around when it comes to lightning...

Lawrence

If you can count 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006 after you see the lightening and but before the thunder get off the field. I don't know the odds but I want the the odds when I'm on the field to be zero. Whatever the odds, if someone would get struck by lightening it would be very sad and one too many. These guys are carrying lightening rods, (aluminum bats), wearing metal spikes and there is usually water on the field during lightening. The fans are near metal fences and in metal stands. It's not worth it. Stop the game for everyone's safety including yours.

Greg,

The storm can be over Castle Rock and a "bolt out of the blue" can hit in Aurora.

Use the 30/30 rule. After the flash a 30-second count for the thunder says the storm is about 30 miles off. That's in the danger zone. Anything within 30 miles COULD kill.

Wait 30 minutes after the last flash before you restart the game.

Thus within a 30 second count you got a 30 minute wait.

rex

A 30-second count is about 6 miles (5 seconds per mile).

Well the 30/30 part is still right. Can I help If I don't know the speed of sound. Cheeze I'm only a college graduate.

rex

*Lighting* - DONT DO
 

All fields should do as the Little League
Organization in most Texas areas do. They
have lighting meters, if strike within 7
miles, hold game up and wait till you have
at least 20 minutes of nothing within 7
miles. Do not know why 7 miles was chosen
as saftey factor, but have always been told
that.

I was in Air Force in Lake Charles, La. on
the field during lighting when the 3rd baseman
and left fielder were hit. 3B person died,
leftfielder survived. 3b persons shoes were
smoking. Now as an umpire, if I can see the
lighting, I hold up. Not pretty sight. JMO,
but stay out of it.

For what it's worth - on vacation with the kids last week, we were out under the awning of our trailer waiting for a storm to pass. Two of us were touching the trailer with our feet on the ground. I saw a flash (1/4 mile away?) and started to count as suggested - I don't recall hearing thunder as I was waiting for it. But as I was leaning against the trailer, I felt a surge similar to what is felt when one puts a 9 volt battery on ones tongue. I wouldn'nt have believed it had not the other kid acted as surprised as I was at what we both experienced. Had we not been both touching the trailer at the same time, I doubt this would have happened.
I never heard the thunder I was waiting for.
I understand counting to estimate distance of the thunder, but it ain't the thunder that worries me. :-)

Always default to delay. I understand that nothing has killed more people at baseball games than lightning.

I have been told that lightning can strike up to 11 miles away from the center of a storm. Even if it is not raining where you are, you could still be in danger of being struck.

When you delay because of lightning, always send players to their cars or some proper building with walls and a roof. The car can act like a Faraday Cage, and protect the occupants. That does not ensure you will not be struck, but it is the safest place to be next to a house or building. Do not, under any circumstances, let players remain in their dugouts. (In higher level leagues - 18+ - all you can do is tell them. If they choose to remain in an unsafe place it's not your fault. Don't try to order them to their cars or anything.)


Nope. Not me. I watched a transformer on a utility pole get struck while sitting in my car in the parking lot of a field, but no humans were injured. The concession did lose its power requiring a repairman, but that was the extent of the damage.


According to the Boston Museum of Science web site, only 100 people or so total per year are killed by lightning. The most likely to be hit would be a farmer.


If you see it, it's too close.


Delay immediately.

With the lightning bolt that close, you won't ever hear the thunder. That's what you hear when the bolt goes "CRAAAACK!!!!!" After that the Thunder is already past you.

Here in Florida we have plenty of lightning, all the time. We stop games all the time. Several years ago we had seven(?) kids killed on a football practice field in Miami. And it wasn't even raining.

For anybody interested, check out this website:

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/week.htm

Lots of good information.

Thom/FL

In 1969, when I was a senior in high school, I requested "time" from the umpire and walked off the pitcher's mound to the dugout. My coach asked if I was hurt, and I said, "Nope. Just terrified of lightening - and I just saw some!" Let's see...aluminum bats, metal spikes, tall light towers, wire backstops - "TIME!!" If somebody wants to gripe about my stopping the game, that's fine with me. At least everyone leaves alive.

In Denver, we have been get lightning storms about every night. If we stopped for every storm that was close, we would never get a game in. I think, unfortunately, there is some risk in playing baseball in a state where lightning is commonplace. However, I do my best to get everyone off when I think there is real danger. Unfortunately, its hard to tell when to keep on playing or not.

Here is a portion of a February 25, 1998 article from the Houston Chronicle's Dale Robertson.

It was in response to the tornadoes that rolled through central Florida during Astros spring training in 1999.

Across the street from the Astros facilities several folks lost their lives. Several of the homes rented by Astros players were also damaged.

Robinson's article discussed Biggio's well founded fear of lightning. Here's the excerpt:

---start---
For Biggio , this wasn't an especially close call. Where he's staying was some eight miles from the nearest swath of deadly destruction. Still, there were fellow Astros who themselves had cheated death in their battered neighborhood.

And the thunder did wake him - to a pyrotechnical spectacular that had erupted in what was supposed to be a pitch-dark night sky. It chilled him to the bone. Again.

"I used to be really afraid of lightning ," he said. "I thought I was over it, but I guess I'm not."

He is afraid of lightning because of what happened on an American Legion baseball field a long time ago.

He was bound for college at Seton Hall - and eventually, of course, stardom in the major leagues - when he went to second base that hazy summer afternoon. Although lightning could be seen on the New Jersey horizon, nobody paid it much mind.

"I mean, who gets hit by lightning , right?" Biggio said.

That day, his team's shortstop did. A bolt literally out of the blue above struck the youngster directly in the chest.

One second, they were waiting for the hitter to step into the batter's box; the next, Biggio was curled up in the fetal position in the infield dirt, out cold.

For a conscious moment, he had experienced a strange burning sensation in the back of his legs and upper body, then he went down. He came to quickly enough, however, to see the shortstop sprawled not 20 feet from him, his uniform in tatters and the sock on one ankle in flames.

Emergency assistance came quickly. It didn't matter. The kid - a nephew or a cousin of Manny Mota, as Biggio recalls - never stood a chance.

"I went to the hospital," Biggio said, "not because I was hurt myself but to see if he was going to make it. We didn't think he would, and he didn't. "I haven't handled lightning very well since."
---end---

P-Sz

Lightning strikes
 

About four years ago I was coaching my son's Farm League game. We heard thunder, saw no lightning or rain. We kept playing for a little while, then we decided to call it (no umpires, coaches control everything). That same night, in a town about eight miles away, two girls were struck by lightning in a high school softball game and one of them was killed. Apparently lightning and thunder had been going on for a while around that field and people had been talking about how maybe they should call the game, but they never did.
Were we glad we called our game? You bet!Now we have lightning detectors at our field, and we have to stop if lightning is detected anywhere near (twenty miles? I'm not sure of the exact distance).
Don't take chances. I'm not generally one to say this, but it's just a game.

in my opinion you see lighting you get the players and your partner off that field ASAP. And an intersting fact if you can see it your in striking distance

How far away.....
 

For those of you that have a lightning meter, what is the magic number(miles away) for pulling the kids off the field?

If I remember correctly, it's a 1000 yards per second from the time of the flash until the sound of the thunder.

Bob

Sound travels at different speed in different media. It travels the fastest in solids and the slowest in gases. It will travel at a different speed in different gases.

The speed of sound in air can be determined by:

v = (331 + 0.610t) m/s where t is the temperature in degrees Celsius, or v = 20.0 ms-1K-½, where T is the temperature in Kelvin.

This is a very general "rule of thumb formula" for use by lay persons. It usually equates to about 339.7 meters per second.

It does not take into consideration the altitude nor the pressure (usually measured in Pascals or millibars). Both of these factors will effect the speed of sound, but not significantly for this topic.

GB

Lightning
 

Growing up in Tennessee, where thunderstorms are frequent in the summertime, I was always taught to count the seconds from the time lightning is seen, until thunder is heard. Legend has it that the storm is 1 mile away for each second between lightning and thunder. Anything 7 miles or less is said to be within the danger zone.

Regardless of any method you use, scientific or redneck, common sense should always be your primary measuring stick. If you sense the slightest hint of danger, get them off the field. If a coach is giving you a hard time about holding up the game, just remember that the same coach would sue you and the league for everything he could get if his son got hit by lightning. Take no chances!!

In an average climate and average elevation, each second that passes between seeing the lightening and the sound reaching your ears indicates a rough distance of 1100 feet. We operate in an area that is thick with summer thunder storms. Our rule of thumb is that we start counting when we see the lightening and if we hear the sound before we reach 25 (a little over five miles), we pull the kids immediately.

We do not fool around with lightening. At least three people are struck each year by lightening in this area and few survive.

If a coach protests we are being overly cautious, I tell him the alternative is for him to stand in center field holding a metal bat high over his head and let us know when the lightening is close enough to vacate the field.

I haven't had any takers yet.

freak'n AMAZING!!!!!
 

re: "In Denver, we have been get lightning storms about every night. If we stopped for every storm that was close, we would never get a game in. I think, unfortunately, there is some risk in playing baseball in a state where lightning is commonplace. However, I do my best to get everyone off when I think there is real danger. Unfortunately, its hard to tell when to keep on playing or not."

You asked a very legitimate question; which, numerous people all gave you the same basic answer = get the he!! off the field and into a protected area!!!!!

http://www.lightningstorm.com/ls2/fa...86347487683025
How far can lightning travel?
Typically, lightning travels 10 miles or less. However, lightning has been observed to travel 20 miles or more, often extending up to 10 miles away from the cloud that formed the lightning.

Now try checking here:
http://205.156.54.206/search.html

type in: Lightning
and watch how many links come up,
read them - PLEASE!
For everyone's safety.....

* It was 1997, 2nd inning of a varsity game. The sky hardly had a cloud in it. When all of a sudden, a bolt of lightning hits the right center section of the outfield fence.
The right fielder came off the filed with his hair standing straight up!!!!!
That field was empty in less than 45 seconds, and not one official or coach had to say: "Get off the field!" Sometimes we just have to remember - it's only a game!
Lightning rarely loses its game........................


[Edited by Rog on Dec 17th, 2001 at 06:25 PM]

Re: freak'n AMAZING!!!!!
 

<i> Originally posted by Rog </i>

<b> re: "In Denver, we have been get lightning storms about every night. If we stopped for every storm that was close, we would never get a game in. I think, unfortunately, there is some risk in playing baseball in a state where lightning is commonplace. However, I do my best to get everyone off when I think there is real danger. Unfortunately, its hard to tell when to keep on playing or not."

You asked a very legitimate question; which, numerous people all gave you the same basic answer = get the he!! off the field and into a protected area!!!!! </b>

Rog I'm not going to play Mr. Spock out there and try and figure out how close the lighting is and at what point it becomes dangerous. All of a sudeden the lightening could be traveling at WARP speed.

Bottom Line in all this is: get the kids off the field. Now as you mentioned some live in states where you have that <i> thunderstorm period </i>, so perhaps a written policy should be in place for those states to protect one from liability.

Unfortunately, no matter how safe you think it is, it only takes one accident and IMO a baseball game isn't worth the risk.

Pete Booth

Re: Re: freak'n AMAZING!!!!!
 

I think Pete's advice on a written policy is quite sound. I know on Long Island there was a Connie Mack level player killed by a lightening strike on the field about 15 years ago. Our Association requires us to stop the game for at least 20 minutes if there is any "visible" lightening. In situations where the weather forecast or the weather itself indicates that possibility I will mention it in the pre-game. "Coach, if we see lightening, we will stop this game as required by our Association for the safety of all participants". That might not be the exact words but that is the message. If the lightening after 20 minutes clearance recurs we will usually end the game. Jim/NYC

The down side of a written policy is that it doesn't protect the injured (or worse, dead) player in the event of a "freak" accident. Common sense is the best guide! I have always used the policy that if I can see lightning, then I am clearing the field. That doesn't mean sitting in the dugouts, either. That means to your cars or some other safe "structure." Every year I take a lot of flak from coaches and fans concerning this, and still I am resolved to err on the side of safety.

Scott

You should not have to take a lot of flak from anyone. I would venture to guess that one of the reasons for some of the objections you face is that some other umpires either lack that same degree of Common sense or allow themselves to be pressured by coaches, fans, or players. I agree exactly if you see lightening suspend the game and clear the field. Also metal cleats and metal bats don't help the situation. Jim/NYC

the motto all of my mentors:) told me to use, and use themselves, is "it is better to be safe then sorry. Do you want to be responsible for not calling a game and having someone get struck by lightning and seriously injured, and then when it is investigated, have people tell the head of you board/Athletic association, athletic director, or commisioner see that. We had a good discussion on the bb forum about how you never know who is watching, and somone important might be, and might respect and think you are a good reff because you have the smarts to call a game when the conditions warrent, think about it,

Doug