The Official Forum - AMLU rejects proposal

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AMLU rejects proposal

Quote:

Originally Posted by your boss

yep, it is true.

What you didn't believe me? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by your boss

yep, it is true.

So let me get this straight. AMLU leadership has marathon negotiating sessions with management and finally strikes a deal which they unanimously recommend to the membership for ratification. The membership then votes it down anyway.

Sounds like the AMLU leadership has lost control of the situation. That's what happens when you promise too much.

The union board recommended it because they were forced to. Legally, if they were going to bring a deal back with the federal mediator there, they had to bring it back with a yes recommendation.

They had two options:

1. Walk out of negotiations with no deal for it's members to vote on.

2. Walk out of negotiations recommending a "yes vote" to a crappy deal.

They let the memebership decide...and it did. Good move on their part. How would it have looked if they had just walked away from the table, and the members had no say.

Remember...this deal was WORSE then the previous deal offered by Minor League Baseball. Why in the world would umpires go on strike to obtain a worse deal. It's not like the umpires just rejected a fair contract. This one was still just as unfair as the ones in the past...if not more so.

DIV2ump,

It is my understanding that the negotiation team had to recommend the deal for ratification so the group could vote on it. The team didn't like a deal that gave $2 extra per diem instead of $1, but they had to put it forth to the group as part of the federal mediation.

Minor League Baseball is STUPID to think that the umpires would accept this deal.

The union must be strong...because if it wasn't, then they would have accepted this crappy deal. But instead, they reject it...and NOT ONE AMLU UMPIRE has stepped foot on a Minor League field this year. NOT ONE! That's strength.

I would say that the fact that MiLB felt confident in offering a poorer deal now, 2 months into the replacement-ump season, than it did previously shows some strength as well. Or foolhardiness, as the case may be.....the analogy to "Deal or No Deal" was a great one: the "banker's" offers to walk away from the buzzer are going down, not up.

I guess the replacement game will continue for a while. My question is, upon the end of the collegiate season soon, how many NCAA umpires will cross the picket line? Is this a significant threat?

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Originally Posted by Thump

I agree that they are strong and they did the right thing, but how are they going to get back on the field when baseball just doesn't care about the quailty of umpiring?

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Originally Posted by LMan

Some seem to think that at the end of the NCAA season, there won't be a line to cross. The guys will be done.

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Originally Posted by MrB

I agree that they are strong and they did the right thing, but how are they going to get back on the field when baseball just doesn't care about the quailty of umpiring?

I wonder how long MiLB will be willing to pay more money for less qualified umpires to work games. It seems to me like they're willing, for now, to pay whatever it takes to break the union. In time, if they do break the union, and the PBUC restructures, will the fill-in umpires be willing to work for less than what they have been getting?

Tim.

Why would they want to get back on the field if baseball just sees them as warm bodies? Good for them and standing up for themselves. They are MUCH better than the talent that is out there right now. They know that. And it seems like Minor League Baseball told them "we don't care." and they told Minor League Baseball, "then we don't want to work for you."

And if they do lose their jobs, so what? They lost $12,000/year and being away from home for half the year with pretty much zero shot of making major league baseball.

I care about these guys...but it seems like nobody else does. If I were them...i'd be doing the same thing. The contract is obviously unfair. They get paid far less then junior college umpires. That's a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Tim,

PBUC isn't paying more in the overall picture. They are actually have a pretty big net savings, since they don't pay travel, mileage, hotels, medical, off-day expenses, per diem. I probably missed a savings or two, but they aren't paying more than before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrB

Mediation is non-binding. If they didn't like the deal they simply don't have to recommend it for a vote. The idea that they would go for a bad deal just to have a deal to put in front of the membership is silly. The fact that they recommended it and it went down shows the bargaining committee has no control.

How is management/PBUC supposed to make a deal when the bargaining committee has no credibility when it comes to the committee's ability to sell the deal? This is a serious problem for the AMLU.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/

There's the details of the offer voted down.

EDIT: they keep changing the # of the story. Look for the story on the right hand side of the page at the top under AP News.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIV2ump

The bargaining committee isn't supposed to have control of the union. That memebers should. It's the committes job to get a proposal to the union so they can vote on it. That's what the memebers asked them to do, so they did. I don't see this being a problem for the AMLU. Looks like the problem is for MiLB. What are the umpires losing? A 2,000/month job. Big deal. If you think of it like a business man, the umpires are probably saving money too.

If this is such a terrible deal for the AMLU, why did its members 'buy into' the system in the first place? To my simple mind, THAT was the real mistake, a long time ago......

They knew YEARS ago that it was poor pay, lots of travel, no home life, almost no shot at the bigs, etc.

What changed between when they signed up with PBUC outta pro school and now?

Reality probably set in. Plus...they didn't have a chance to change how things were then. Now they do. The contract is up. That argument is flawed, because then why would anybody go on strike?

The salary scale may have been fair when some of these guys got in the game 10 years ago...but now it's not. Times change...inflation changes...Minor League Baseball refuses to change with the times. Eventually you got to step up and say...enough is enough. That's what they are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrB

I agree that they are strong and they did the right thing, but how are they going to get back on the field when baseball just doesn't care about the quailty of umpiring?

I disagree. Baseball does care about the quality of umpiring. Who is "baseball?" The managers and players care a good deal (though they care about many other things more). The owners care quite a bit less, and much less than they care about player development (which they owe to the big league clubs) and their own bottom line (which is not huge in MiLB).

The money in MLB does not trickle down to MiLB as much as it might. Think of it this way: the average MLB umpire makes maybe 10-20% (depending on experience) of the average MLB player salary. If the MiLB umps made a comparable percentage of the average MiLB player salary, how much would they make?

I understand what you are saying, but I think the system is the culprit. Per diem, health coverage, salary, yada yada are just window dressing. Not one MiLB umpire will get a better shot at the bigs because his health coverage payment went down $10.00/month.

For this to be "to help all our brothers in blue who come after us," then the SYSTEM should be changed, nothing less.

Other wise the current AMLU membership will be seen as grubbing a few more bucks for the present, but not altering the current unbalanced relationship between mgt and employee.

But I seriously doubt that AMLU has that kind of leverage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

The money in MLB does not trickle down to MiLB as much as it might. Think of it this way: the average MLB umpire makes maybe 10-20% (depending on experience) of the average MLB player salary. If the MiLB umps made a comparable percentage of the average MiLB player salary, how much would they make?

I don't see how this analogy can have traction in a sport where the Marlin's entire payroll is exceed by 7 Yankees players' annual salaries. There's just too much whacko economics in every aspect of MLB...none of it makes sense, much less umpire pay.

Has anyone else noticed that a couple of AMLU regulars are conspicuously missing?

The comment about Minor League Baseball being crazy to think that they would accept the offer is laughable. The mediator presented the offer to the union bargaining committee and they did have a choice. Ask yourself this, who looks selfish now? PBUC and MiLB may be the stingy holders of the purse but the public won't see it that way. A Federal mediator sided with the union on the unfair bargaining practice issue and presented what he thought was an equitable offer. The AMLU membership still wasn't satisfied with what will be perceived to be a fair offer and the other eye will get blackened.

Where are those taunts that MiLB finally wised up to the incompetency of the amateur umpire replacements? Didn't someone supposedly 'in the know' brag "soon. very soon."? Another said that the Delmon Young incident was the last straw and MiLB realized their error. Time and again we've been told that all our conjecture means little when they really know what is going on at the table. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

I reiterate a six month position - disband the union and sign a limited contract (either as a new union or individuals, like the old days). Get back to work at those thankless jobs and prove your worth. Stop grandstanding and talking smack about the replacements. (They ARE taking your money and effetively limiting your ability to have a career.) Recall the fact that you have been blessed with an uncanny ability to judge split second playing action and be fair in your decision making. That gift is being wasted and for what? You knew what you were getting into when you paid for pro school.

p.s. SanDiego - and I didn't even have to get to "QUEENS" college!
(a top flight school by the way)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thump

The union board recommended it because they were forced to.

Maybe. But if that's true how does one explain the enthusiasm of the union slimeball, I mean attorney:

<i>"Our committee is pleased that the mediation process we proposed has resulted in a deal that will get our membership back on the field where they belong." ...union attorney Robert Weaver</i>

At least he's getting paid this summer.

He also isn't getting crap from players, coaches, managers, fans, and front offices.
p.s. - I can say this. I'm an attorney.

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Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

He also isn't getting crap from players, coaches, managers, fans, and front offices.
p.s. - I can say this. I'm an attorney.

But now that 2/3rds of the membership voted down the result of his efforts, he may have to start dealing with crap from umpires.

But as you observed, he still gets paid.
Perhaps 90 mph fastballs could be propelled into attorneys bodies. They might gain a new perspective.

Who is they? I thought you included yourself in that group.

Oh heck no Blue - I'm an attorney, but I can't stand the sleezeball faction as much as everyone else!

A friend forwarded this to me from the Mercury News (sorry it was a copy so I don't know where they originate).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MN

It's the strike that few seem to care about. These are, after all, minor league umpires, who are basically invisible unless they make a bad call.

But angry about low compensation while driving to obscure places, eating in diners and pursuing a small-percentage shot at the big leagues, minor league umps are becoming more visible as their protest becomes protracted. Twenty-five striking umpires picketed with the support of a few major league umps before a Class A game in Hagerstown, Md. this week.

Locally based minor league umpires Chris Hubler of Newtown and Alan Porter of Warminster were there.

“One of the things the owners continually fall back on is, "Well, you guys knew what you were getting into,''' said Hubler, 33. “But I didn't realize I would never have a cost-of-living increase.” Why not, the others did? Few people are guaranteed a C.O.L. raise.

“People don't realize how difficult our job really is,” said Porter, 28. “Think about how much some of these minor league franchises are worth. And nothing's coming toward us.” So, when you signed your contract, you assumed that you'd get a slice of the pie too?

Everyone loves to hate umps, but a reasonable person can understand the umps' beef far better than they could tolerate past player strikes. The top salary for a Triple-A ump is $17,000. Per diem at the top level is only $25. 5 month season

Those are the main reasons why members of the Association of Minor League Umpires are on strike against their employer, the Professional Baseball Umpire Corporation, a subsidiary of minor league baseball. None of the 220 members has crossed the picket line. The umpire union is proposing a per diem increase up to the government rate of $44, and for Triple-A umps to get a combined bump of $600 a month in salary and per diem. Their employer has offered a $100-a-month raise at each level and a $1 increase in per diem. The latter would rise to $40 at Triple A in the sixth year of a new labor agreement.

Salaries and per diems have been mostly static since 1998, the year Major League Baseball ended its umpire development program and cut the $5 million budget for it. When the minor leagues took control, salaries were sliced and frozen.

Major League Baseball's reasoning was that, with low turnover among big league umps, it was getting too few umpires from the minors to justify the investment. But Hubler points out that the minors are where everybody starts, and it usually takes seven years for an ump to reach the bigs. Yes, that is why you are referred to as trainees or apprentices.

“The reason [the owners] can get away with this is they dangle the golden carrot of Major League Baseball in front of our noses,” Hubler said. “The reality is less than five percent of us make it.” Again...is this an epiphany? When I was in pro school, the instructors told us that unless someone died in the next year or two, no one was moving up. That golden carrot is why you went to school and accepted the contract, remember? If not, you should have graciously said , "No thanks, I appreciate the knowledge, but I'll just go back to my hometown and be the best umpire there." Good Lord!

Said Double-A Reading Phillies owner Craig Stein: “It's no different from an apprentice in any business ... and the preponderance of minor league teams don't make a lot of money.” Not according to that IL crew chief!

Adds Joe Finley, an Upper Makefield resident who owns the Double-A Trenton Thunder and Class-A Lakewood BlueClaws: “The umpires I've spoken to don't see it as a typical job to feed their families. Just like players, they see it as a stepping stone....” Again...not according to that IL crew chief!

“If it becomes clear there's not going to be a resolution, I think Major League Baseball and the minor leagues would look for a permanent solution.”

Unrest with new umps?

There hasn't been a widespread outcry against the replacements, but patience is wearing thin in some places. Wednesday night Delmon Young of the Triple -A Durham (N.C.) Bulls flipped his bat into the chest of the home plate umpire after being called out on strikes.

A Triple-A manager stresses patience with the replacements but indicates one advantage is some replacements are too intimidated to toss him.

“Every time I go out there, it's like looking at a deer caught in the headlights,” the manager told “Baseball America.”

Minor League Baseball executives claim they're satisfied with the replacements' performance. To the strikers, that's laughable posturing.

“It's a blatant lie,” Hubler said. “I went to a Trenton game. It's a joke. The professionalism isn't there. They're in awe of the players.” So? Are the players supposed to be in awe of your scary talent? C'mon...there is no professional courtesy extended...even to the big boys.

“I think we're doing just fine with the replacement umps,” Finley said. “There have been some complaints, but from a fan's perspective, you can't tell the difference. It's not like these guys are from the local 7-Eleven; a lot of them are college umps.”

Meanwhile, many strikers are continuing their off-season jobs. Porter, who has a wife and 13-month-old son, has gone back to work at Asplundh Tree Co. in Willow Grove. Hubler does contract work for Yellow Book distribution and is owner-operator of a small trucking company.

In his 10th year as a minor league ump, Hubler's window of major league opportunity has passed.

“I want these guys to get what they deserve,” Hubler said. “And I don't want them to be in my situation in 10 years.” Then go to pro school and tell them how you make such a ****ty living. Few of us really believe you are concerned with the future generations.

Dan Iassogna, a major league ump at the Hagerstown rally, can relate to the strikers' dues-paying. Coming up in the minors, he often worked three jobs in the off-season.

“People don't realize what umpires go through and how little they're compensated,” he said. “The price of gas has tripled, and per diem has stayed the same.”

Here comes the big finish...Hubler's hope is that the replacements will be so bad, the people who usually berate the regulars will root for their return.

“At some point,” Hubler said, “our greatest ally is going to be our natural adversaries — players and managers.”

I couldn't have made it up...priceless! Keep up the great public relations and you guys will have us joining those picket lines in no time.

Except for the red colored words, what a bunch of hooey!

Additional Info - Minor Lg. release

http://oursportscentral.com/services...es/?id=3303808

Any benefits people have a value estimate for those benefits? Typically benefits are 25-33% of salary but in this case it might be more because the work year is shorter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thump

and NOT ONE AMLU UMPIRE has stepped foot on a Minor League field this year. NOT ONE! That's strength.

But there are rumblings across this great nation that there will, indeed, be MiLB umps who willingly return to the field, but no one wants to be the first to go. Will it happen? Yes, if several do it. Expect more to quickly follow.

Apparently one third of the membership (about 75 guys) haven't bought into the charade and are ready to work now.

While none of the current union has worked this three and a half week old season, it won't be long before dissent works its way into the fray. PBUC has already said that no further negotiations will take place. Does the union brass really believe that they are awaiting a sweeter offer? The one they just received was eerily similar to the one presented in January and again, just before the strike. A few little adjustments were made but MiLB refuses to make concessions.

Like I wrote earlier, the D1 guys will be wrapping up their seasons shortly. Even the guys who will work the NCAA playoffs will be done in another thirty days. The season won't be half over and a new batch of elite umpires will be a callin'. The good news is that there will be plenty of summer rec ball to be had by those guys who can't find a decent landscaping job. I'll work an American Legion game with a couple of them and I'll even let him show me his stuff on the dish. I'm only too happy to have them join the ranks of those they've been bashing. Maybe I'll even treat them to a local MiLB game. They can tell me how inconsistent the crew is and we can ponder the consistency of the union decision makers. Hell, I'll even spring for dogs and suds.

Did AMLU turn down 12% RAISE? Article stated, "Minor League umpires reject 12 percent raise." It must be true.

http://oursportscentral.com/services...es/?id=3303808

Per diem OFFER increased from $25 to $27, less than 10%.
Salary OFFER increased from $10,000 to $10,500, exactly 5%.

Last I checked $3.57/$60 falls just short of 6%.

I suppose the AMLU looks pretty dumb turning their noses at a 12% RAISE that never existed. ONE SCAB I read about got a 50% RAISE. Perhaps PBUC would consider that 12% raise across the BOARD.

The last offer was rejected 2 to 1, I can only suppose the majority of those who voted to go back to work were already working at the AA to AAA level. Any idea why the triple-A guys might be itching to get back to work?

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Originally Posted by SAump

I'm just taking a wild stab in the dark here: could it be that AMLU is spinning the numbers they want while PBUC/MiLB is spinning theirs? Only a handful of people really know what was offered all along. AMLU never even acknowledged that a last minute offer from PBUC was tendered to avoid a strike, so I don't believe much of what they are writing.

You say it never existed, while some pretty involved sources say otherwise. Were you at the table, like Yund and Mobley?

Maybe you are correct that the AAA and AA guys are itchy. They should have thought about that before they felt so strongly that no one could possibly do their jobs. It seems that they may be realizing that they were wrong all along. Backing the wrong horse is a lesson that Reagan taught PATCO a long time ago.

Why don't you go read my thread "The AMLU's Birmingham Folly"...that will explain a lot

Friendly discussion

Offer wasn't secret once details were made public. I agree with your SPIN on spin. Only thing I knew was 6 year term was on the table and we all know why. Things are getting better already.

MLB is asking 2-6 umps to take early retirement.
I would say the current STRIKE by AMLU members is more than partly responsible. :confused:

MLB UMPS joined their bothers on the picket line. Ex-AAA umpires are NOT returning to work for the good of the game. That means they support those who have chosen to stay and improve their living conditions.:rolleyes:

The AA and AAA UMPS {the cream of the crop} were collectively offered a $500 pay raise. So much for PBUC's integrity in their own rating system and anyone's sense of a FAIR deal.:p

The Rookie and Short Season Single A minor league experience is considered on the job training, an apprenticeship, or any other term you like for keeping wages LOW for NO experience. Those 8 years in A, AA, AAA sound like grounds for making a good journeyman's salary and journeymen do make a pretty decent living. :o

Low level scabs are already making $30 more than the going rate. Won't be long till the regulars return for their FAIR share. Hopefull this same effect will amplify into AA and AAA. It won't be long before I get $70 for 9 innings of baseball. A couple of years ago it was $50, then last year it went up to $65. Sorry coach, I don't have any change for that $20.;)

Most realize that life must go on and quickly resume their non-PRO status. That doesn't mean they no longer umpire. It means they bought a house, married, have kids and finally have a LIFE.:)

Most UMPS I know don't need the work, but then again I try to distance myself from SMITTY. If he can't pay his bills then I figure I can't learn too much from him.:(

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAump

It won't be long before I get $70 for 9 innings of baseball. A couple of years ago it was $50, then last year it went up to $65. Sorry coach, I don't have any change for that $20.;)

Where do you work for $70 for a 9 inning ball game?

"In 2005 twenty Minor League umpires worked as Major League fill-ins under PBUC's agreement with Major League Baseball, and they earned as much as $76,755, not including other benefits. PBUC had to terminate this agreement this year because Minor League umpires turned down spring training assignments despite the 42% increase in compensation that PBUC negotiated for them. Nevertheless, some striking umpires are currently working at the Major League level as independent contractors without contract benefits."

NOT what I heard. Not what was printed in the papers. Not what was discussed on this website previously.

"despite the 42% increase in compensation that PBUC negotiated for them."
---> Calling the bad guy the good guy. Certainly entertaining.

"Nevertheless, some striking umpires are currently working at the Major League level as independent contractors without contract benefits."
---> Independent from PBUC's meager CONTRACT salary and benefits OFFER.

I didn't have to sit at the table. Public actions speak for themselves.

Legal Substitution

"Where do you work for $70 for a 9 inning ball game?"

I said I do and that is enuf. Anything less, and you're working the plate.

Those who work local leagues know where the bread is buttered. Pay is split in half so I pick up the select crumbs (bases) whenever possible. I also take some games by myself (fee and a half, or both).

I consider myself a FREE-lance replacement and a fill-in for umpires who trust me as a qualified substitute and want me there. REAL umpires (6 days a week) may take off while I get their plate job. I expect the game fee and more ($10 ICE COLD, away from campus).