Another kicked call by MLB umpire
 

Bruce Froemming just made a horrible call in the Yankees vs. Blue Jays game on ESPN.

Ground ball over 2nd base fielded by F6, who flipped to F4 who never caught the ball. Froemming called it way too quickly, like he usually does, and called the Yankee runner out as the ball is rolling away. Very poor timing. Torre came out, but of course the play stood.

Froemming should have waited a second longer (at least) and he would have seen the ball on the ground. I think he tried to sell it that it was a voluntary release, but F4 dropped the ball far too quickly to even possibly be considered as having control. But he never even caught it to begin with.

Before anyone asks what good does pointing out these bad calls do, I do it so we as amateur umpires remember not to call these plays too quickly, and to illustrate that even the pros make terrible calls.

Same game, one of my former partners (albeit only a couple games) Brian Runge scored a run on a time play during a rundown between 2nd and 3rd. The tag was applied for out #3 on the runner in the rundown a good 2 to 3 steps before the runner from 3rd reached home plate. This one went in the Yankees favor, and the Jays skipper argued to no avail.

Wow, two in the same game. And it's only the 5th inning!

I was wondering about that play. The replay I saw didn't show a split screen, so I didn't see it. 2 or 3 steps? Wow.

Yes, during the first at bat in the next inning, they did a split screen on it, and sorry to say, it wasn't even close. At least 2 steps being generous.

I watched the Rogers Sportsnet, Canadian Telecast of the game. Both umpires kicked both of their respective calls. Timing was the issue at second, and I don't know what the issue at the dish with Runge was, he just missed it. However very little argument from John Gibbons or any of the Jays for that matter.

Interesting side note, the color commentator, Pat Tabler, American, not that it matters, made a comment about how there is such a thing as a home park call, and that was his justification for the call Froemming made at second. He also went on to suggest that for the call on the time play at the plate, Runge might have taken into consideration the missed call against the Yankees at second by Froemming. I love commentators. LMAO. :D

To take some positive out of this...

any time you've had a bad game, you can look at games like these and say to yourself "see, the pros miss 'em too sometimes."

I was at the game, and both calls were very obvious. I think the play at home was a bit of a revlon call, as the call at second cost the Yankees a run. This wasn't close at all. And Chubby at 2nd base was just plain HORRIBLE Timing. He had his hand up in a fist as the ball was in flight to the base. When the ball dropped, he pointed at the base, gave the out again, and showed a "on the Transfer" mechanic. It was bad.

Do you really think Major League umpires employ makeup calls? Hell, 99.9% of amateur umpires are above that kind of dishonesty, why would anyone accuse a MLU of something like that?

What's a revlon call?

It's a call made when the umpire is staring at a compact mirror putting on his Revlon lipstick instead of watching the play on the field. I've never made a Revlon call, but have made a few Avon's.:D

That's a creative explanation, Husker, but I think 'Revlon' was simply used in place of the word 'makeup' in this case. That might be obvious to some, but others might have needed a little help.

Hey 3appleshigh, I don't think Froemming's nickname is Chubby, if i remember right. To us slender-challenged people, calling us names based on our weight is the equivalent to calling black people the "N" word. It isn't very nice, and it hurts people's feelings. I'm sure if I took a look at you, I could find some hateful nickname for you, and you wouldn't appreciate it very much. There is no justification for referring to someone by their physical appearance.

I got called to the carpet for using the term "retarded" in regard to a rule, for cryin' out loud. I was informed by several people on this forum that I was being insensitive toward the mentally handicapped, and that other terms should be used. And I was just referring to a rule, not an actual person.

Froemming didn't blow the call because of his weight, he blew it because of his poor timing. And last I knew, skinny people can have bad timing too.

You actually need to have a clue who is talking and what they look like before commenting on how Slenderly challenged people feel. I'm 6'3" 301lbs. So if you think I'm skinny, I love you. I'm Chubby myself, and have no issue either way. But thanks for your imput.

The dude is Chubby, and I don't know his name, so he is "Chubby", ( in fact refering to him a chubby, might insult the chubby people the dude's rotund), I would expect no less from someone refering to me. Being PC sucks Crap. I will not become so to please you, or the other "retard's" on this forum. Thanks for the revealling story of how a word disrupts your day. Take a lesson from the Fags of the world, take ownership of the word, and you take away it's power. See Ya

Yours Truly

Chubby, Tubby, Fat a$$ ... 3appleshigh

By Baseball America Staff
April 20, 2006

• Double-A Arkansas shortstop Brandon Wood hit two homers, but was more focused on a foul-tip call in the ninth inning of the Travelers' 8-6 loss to Tulsa on Wednesday.

With a runner on second, Wood struck out to end the game on a pitch that he and Arkansas manager Ty Boykin argued was foul-tipped. Tulsa catcher Chris Ianetta dropped the ball, then tagged Wood and the game was over.

"Yeah, I foul-tipped it," Wood told the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

Adding to that controversy was Wood's at-bat in the eighth, when Boykin--who was coaching third base--called for time to check if the white lettering on Tulsa reliever Josh Newman's glove was legal. The third-base umpire called time as Newman released the pitch, but the home-plate ump didn't acknowledge it.

The called strike was allowed to stand after the umpires conferred, even though the home plate umpire apparently told Wood otherwise.

"The thing that bothers me, which doesn't make any sense, the guy behind the plate tells Wood, 'That doesn't count.' Then he goes back up there and he goes, '0-1,' " Boykin told the paper.

"I'm not bashing anybody. If you make a mistake, you make a mistake and it's going to happen. But I just can't deal with calls that are made that there's no rational reason behind it."

Lost in all the debate was the performance of Tulsa first baseman Joe Koshansky, who went 4-for-4 with two homers and a pair of doubles. Koshansky, a sixth-round pick out of Virginia in 2004, is 8-for-17 (.470) in the series.

The two teams meet again tonight as the Drillers have a chance to sweep the five-game series.

• In other random replacement umpire complaints, the Colorado Springs Gazette ran a story today with some scathing comments from players:

"We're only two weeks in and you can see how frustrating it's getting already. The players' jobs are on the line, and we're dealing with some umpires who have trouble at this level."--Triple-A Tucson lefthander Randy Choate.

"We hold the players to a high standard. We have to hold the umpires to a high standard, too. Some of these calls they're missing are just obvious."--Triple-A Colorado Springs manager Tom Runnels.

"The integrity of the game is being compromised, all so minor league baseball can squeeze some nickels and dimes out of the umpires. Minor league baseball ought to be ashamed at the product they're putting on the field. If there are good-faith negotiations going on, I don't need to be commenting in the press because it wouldn't be productive. But I understand there are no negotiations, and that's not fair to us."--Tucson righthander Kevin Jarvis.

Someone already posted this article in an area where it has relevance.

I believe it has relevance here...The post was started about two blown calls in a professional baseball game. This article is about another (potentially) blown call in a professional baseball game.

I think if the topic of this thread is blown calls in a pro baseball game than this article has plenty of relevance.

Unless, of course, you don't think "pro" games umpired by amateurs are actually "pro" games, at least not as some have come to know and love pro baseball. So in hindsight maybe that article should not have been posted here.

HEY FAT A$$:) :

6'3" and 301 sounds like sturdy, not fat.

How did you not know his name, since I named him several times in the opening post of the thread? You know damn well who Bruce Froemming is, so that "I didn't know his name" crap doesn't cut it.

It is usually skinny guys with no clue of the difficulty big folks have in losing weight that poke fun at them. You are apparently an exception to the rule. It seems that politically correct (which I hate too) covers every other person in the world except for the fat ones. You cannot get away with racist comments or name-callings which were once commonplace. If you make fun of gays, you are labeled a homophobe. And, if you say that a rule is "retarded," certain people on this forum get up in arms over it. Fat people are the last frontier. Always open season on ol' Tubby over there. They are the only people that it is still fashionable to make fun of. I just think that huge folks should be given the same courtesy as Blacks, Jews, Gays, and any other group which is protected by the PC crowd.

Actually, the purpose of this thread was to point out that even so-called "professional" umpires can blow easy calls. I was not looking for examples of so-called "amateur" umpires blowing calls.

Where did you get the idea that this thread was for anything but MLB blown calls, when the name of the thread is 'Another kicked call by MLB Umpire'?

If you get paid to umpire baseball games, I believe you have lost your amateur standing, so to speak. You are by the very definition of the word, a "professional." Just because you umpire amateur teams, doesn't make you an amateur. Just like sitting in a garage all day doesn't make you a car.

So, unless these minor league games are being umpired by Little League District volunteer umpires (who are the only true "amateur" umpires), they are being umpired by "professionals," albeit not AMLU members, or even necessarily pro school trained.

:eek: : WOW SDS - That is a horrible description of what a professional umpire is. You have now sunk into the clueless class of Rutledge and WWTB (the two clowns from the Chicago area) - Actually, you were there before, but you just confirmed what I had already known.

Hey Jocko, I'll be sure to let you know when I start caring about your opinion of me. You sure have an inflated one of yourself.

I guess what I should say is I don't know how to spell his name, and really having only read it twice, know it starts with an F but then it goes away. I refered to him as chubby at the game with my buddy, so I kept the moniker here.

I also support your position on us "Fatty Fatty two by four's" being one of the last group's where attacks are allowed. With White people and MEN we're the last group's of "FREE SHOT OVER HERE". But I kind of like being a member of all three societies. And I'm not sure I want it changed to where we can't speak about anything. We're already seen what "Everyone is equal" has done to the schools. But that's another story.

Exactly the response I expected from you...based on your numerous posts in the past few weeks/months.

As an aside, there are mulitple definitions of "professional". A quick search of an on-line dictionary revealled that one of the definitions does state, as you implied, that one is a professional simply by being paid for services rendered.

The definition that I believe 99% of all umpires I know use however, defines "professional" as, "(e)ngaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer."

And since I don't know a single amateur umpire who umpires as a career or make their livelihood from umpiring (and since 99% of umpires I know use this definition) I'll reiterate my point: minor league games umpired by amateurs are not "professional" games.

I allow for the possibility that there may be someone out there who makes a career umpiring amateur games...if so they in some sense may be a "professional" under the definition I have put forth as being the one primarily used. If such a person exists, they are the exception rather than the rule.

Okay, maybe we aren't actually, technically, professionals. However, I do dress professionally. Sharp uniform, two pressed ball bags, brilliantly shined shoes, neat appearance, etc. I also conduct myself professionally. Don't you? Do you say, "I am going to conduct myself amateurishly" when describing the perfomance of your duties? My mechanics I use are quite polished and look very "professional." My timing is impeccable, and rivals that of "professionals."

I just feel that the term "amateur" suggests sloppiness and lack of quality, such as you could find on the Ted Mack Amateur Hour in those early days of television. I would prefer a different term, such as "non pro-ball umpire" perhaps, or "local official." I am not comfortable with "amateur" because the words "smitty" and "charlie" are usually not far behind.

Since (I am assuming from your screen name) you are on the left coast, far, far away from my location...I'll have to take your word on it.:D

Well, if you noticed, I did start this thread by ragging on Froemming's horrible timing. If I couldn't do it better, I would not criticize.:)

I agree, Rich.

These umpires are hyper-aware that their calls are being highly scrutinized. They know it is going to be shown on slow motion instant replay and probably appear on ESPN's "Baseball Tonight" segment.

If they know they've blown one call, they certainly are not too interested in blowing another one. They're not stupid enough to think that anyone will view the second miss as "fair."

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

If it hurts your feelings, lose weight. I know it's easier said than done, but I know it's doable because I lost over 50lbs myself in 2003. If you want to be taken seriously as an official, you have to look the part. Unfortunately, that means being in shape and being clean shaven (I know that's a whole other thread), but it's true.

Sure, you can call LL ball as a fatty and nobody's going to care, but if you seriously want to advance, you're going to have to lose the weight. Even the MLB officials that are overweight are critiqued more harshly by the players and coaches.

Why should anyone have to conform to someone elses standards on their physique or face ridicule? The bottom line should be their ability to officiate the game, not their physical stature. I also take offense to your LL comment. I work with some of the most dedicated and professional umpires in our area in LL. Fact is, most of them outshine the members of the HS association I belong to. Some of us work both HS and LL, while others who are just as capable choose not to work HS for personal reasons.


Tim.

We can argue right or wrong all day, that's not my point. Is it right that people are judged on their appearance? No. Does it happen? Yes. Is it easier to change your fitness level then it is to change the pre-conceptions of millions of people? Yes.

On the LL comment, my point is that appearance is not a factor in selecting umpires to work that level (neither is it a factor in HS), but at levels that you actually have to be selected to work (college ball, etc), appearance is a factor.

Again, I'm not saying it's right, just that it is.

They shouldn't have to conform and they shouldn't face ridicule, it's not fair but it's a fact of life that it happens. When some people see a 'large' umpire they can't help but notice the condition of the players and compare. Perception goes a long way.


Absolutely!!!

We do not have LL around here but many of our BR/Pony umpires are varsity HS umpires and above. We also have some fine umpires who choose only to work BR/Pony, some have been umpires for 20+ years.

I understand the points both of you have made. You're right, we still live in a society where this type of bigotry is still prevalent. It's a shame that is has to be that way, but it is.


As far as the Little League umpires issue, it saddens me that so many disparaging comments are directed at Little League umpires on these forums. I understand that there are many, many piss poor LL umpires. In my opinion the sheer volume of games played in the LL organization themselves have to be the number one contributing factor to this problem. However, to indict all umpires who choose to work LL games based on the poor umpires seen at times is unfair. One of my favorite people who post's on this board often opines that Little League umpires suck. I'm certain that he's drawn that conclusion based on his personal exposure to them. In our area that's just not the case. I hope there will come a point in time that he can see some of us who are dedicated officials in the Little League organization work some games. I think he might just change his mind if it ever happens.


Tim.

Great post, BigUmp! Higher level umpires who take the time to do LL games (in all there generations - LL, Inc., travel, recreational) give the players such a good level of officiating and really make their LL time memorable.
I also hope HS umpires ARE viewed by how they look - proper dress, equipment, etc. Who can forget that to US, at 15, 16, 17 high school ball (our first matching uniform, sewn-on numbers, more than three fans) WAS our major leagues!

Don't know who ya are, but I've already advanced as far as I'm going to, and I said it hurts people's feelings, not mine. I just find it ignorant to refer to people by their physical appearance, and the only ones that receive that treatment are fat people.

I know quite a few JUCO, D-1, 2, and 3 umpires who are tubs of lard, so the advancement thing isn't quite cut and dried.

There are umpires who work little league, and there are "little league umpires". There is a drastic difference between the two.

Well put, Garth. This kind of gives me a new perspective on where some you have been coming from.


Tim.

I guess that was a poor comparison on my part. I wasn't saying that LL umps are worse than any other officials, I was just using the LL level of baseball as my example since at that level (same as with PONY, etc...) that there isn't much selectivity when choosing umpires. Basically anyone that wants to do it can. Once you get above the HS level, it's much more selective and factors such as appearance weigh more heavily.

I didn't mean to sound biased towards LL officials, that's not the case at all. There are good and bad officials in every association at every level. To me, anyone that goes out and makes an effort to call the best game they can is a good official, regardless of the level they work.