Strike Pitch - Do you still call it?
 

HAd a game last night (JV level). Had a good & big strike zone all night. Home team pitcher stays mainly mid and up all night. Visitors came in with a guy who threw low balls and breaking junk. That being said here goes:

His pitches were strikes when they crossed the plate, then dumped off the table and headed to the ground. Catcher did a good job of catching them - well most of them. Had 3 in a row,
#1 right at knees, over the plate catcher drops to block ball STRIKE 1
#2 same exact pitch. STRIKE 2
coach: " come on. ball is 3inches off the ground. LEt me know next time and we will bring shovels."
#3 Ball mid thigh level over inside corner (I see it since I am set there). Ball breaks and drops down, again catcher blocks ball. STRIKE 3.

Coach has a few more words; quietly. Their fans not liking the calls - obviously.

My question: If it is a strike when it crosses the plate, should it matter how the C stops it? If we worry about that part then what about the C who sets up way outside (off the plate) and then P rips one on the inside corner or down the pipe. C has to quickly dive at ball to stop it. Are these BALLS?

I am a first year ump looking for solid advise- not looking to begina pissing match.

Thanks:confused:

If it's a strike, call it. You're going to hear things because it LOOKS like a ball because of the way the catcher is receiving it. A strike is a strike, regardless. Besides, if you don't call it you're going to have a walkfest.

You're asking two different questions. Should it matter if it crosses right but catcher muffs it up - NO. It SHOULDN'T. Does it matter, yes it does.

In my opinion it is a which end of the stick do you want to hold question. To expand on your example, let's say he is doing that all game. All strikes, but appear to everyone else in attendance as balls. You will inevitably have to chuck someone in this game. A feed up batter, a feed up coach who knows but someone, plus you will have the fans all over you all game long. Yes it is a strike, but no one else thinks so. So for game management call what the entire pitching tandem gives you. As you get up in level you will often hear a catcher say to his pitcher sorry man that one was my fault. He is refering to the ugly way he caught the pitch. The pitch has to throws strikes and the catcher has to catch strikes. But if the pitcher throws a strike, but the catcher "catches a ball" what do you think the fans, players,coaches and often even evaluators can see? This is mostly to do with marginal pitches, a cockshoot that the catcher muffs is still a strike.

Grab the stick, choose your end wisely.

Ball 1, Ball 2, Ball 3.

The catcher is, no matter what the rulebook says, a part of what makes the pitch a strike.

Sets up outside and dives back across the inside corner? Probably a ball, too, unless I need a strike in that situation.

Rich, that's awful. A strike is a strike is a strike. The last part you typed is the worst part.

At the varsity level and with higher-quality JV, I agree with Rich. The catcher has to do his part and everybody knows it. Anything below that, I'm looking for strikes and outs. The batters haven't yet earned the right to be connoisseurs. Swing or sit.

It depends on the level I am working.

At the HS level I know the catchers are not going to catch the ball perfectly all the time. I have seen freshman players that knew how to catch the ball properly and have worked with senior catchers that did not know how to stick a pitch right down the middle. So if the pitch is right down the middle I likely going to call the pitch a strike. If the pitch is on the corners or right at the edge of the zone, then that is where they need to catch it. Part of calling pitch is how the ball is caught so you can clearly know where the pitch was and how it got there.

I can tell you the more you move up, more is expected of catchers to catch the ball properly. If they do not catch the ball properly at the college level and above, the coaches are not going to blame you, they will blame the catchers for not doing their job. I had a college game last week where a coach told me to "hit my catcher in the back of the head the next time he pops up." I talk about college because you will get some HS coaches that have college experiences as players and coaches that might make an issue out of a HS catcher not catching the ball perfectly. I just worked a game today with an assistant I knew from working as a coach at a local college and he is very knowledgeable. He says things that the average HS coach never says.

Peace

I fall into Rich's line of thinking on this issue. A curve ball that is caught below mid-calf is not a strike, especially if the ball or glove touches the ground. The catcher that sets up inside or outside who must reach is glove across the plate to catch the pitch is more of a nuance. If the catcher is able to reach but still catch it within his frame and freeze his glove so the coaches can see it, it's a strike.

I call alot of strikes in my games and I work up to Division Two. I find that calling strikes tends to make the game go smoother with a minimum of griping. But the umpire's credibility is an important element in the making of a gripe-free environment. We're REQUIRED to call the high strike, so our credibility exists in the coaches' confidence that we'll call it both ways and consistently. But if either catcher makes the pitch look ugly, like letting that outside strike deflect off his mitt and travel behind him, it's a ball every time for both sides.

Probably the single most important change in my game that got me bumped up from Frosh / JV level to Varsity was learning to take how a pitch is caught into consideration.

Years ago, I called pitches strictly on the flight / path of the pitch. If it touched the zone, no matter how or where it was caught by the catcher, I called it a strike. I used to take a lot of heat from everyone, and was considered to have a poor strike zone.

Then, one of our senior members pulled me aside, and explained to me that even though a pitch might have touched the zone, if the catcher catches it in a way that makes it look like a ball to the rest of the world, I needed to call it a ball. Once I started doing that (took quite a bit of practice), my games went much smoother, my zone felt better, and I started getting compliments from all sides on my pitch calling. And the next year, my entire HS schedule consisted of Varsity games.

That said, let me add; If a strike is what I call a FAT strike, meaning it basically went through the middle of the zone, but say pops out of the catchers glove...Go ahead and call those strikes. What we are talking about are the FRINGE strikes, strikes the catcher has to make extra effort to catch, or a pitch that could go either way. That's when you use how the pitch was caught to make your determination.

One last piece of advice; I would only apply this to 13 YRO and up, on a 90' diamond. Start out conservatively (calling lots of strikes), reducing the number of bad catches you call strikes over time.

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So, what I am reading in reguards with this: even if it is a strike that the bottom drops out of and when C catches it, it is very low or blocked, call it a BALL?

I work mostly fr/jv games. It would make this seem as if the game will go on forever - walks.

If I undersdtand these post correctly, we are letting what the spectators and coaches influnence what we call because of what they THINK happened, not really happened.

Let me apply this to FB (for those who do that sport): do we allow the RB who did not "pop the bubble of the goal line" get the TD, because it looked like he got in???

smbbcoach: Baseball is a game of perception. When the fielder takes the throw at 2B and swipes his foot near the bag, but doesn't touch it, before throwing to 1B for the double play, do you call R1 safe? No you don't, because you would be the only person in the park who thinks he's safe. The whole world thinks he's out, so he's out.

Likewise, every person in the park who sees a curveball touch the dirt before the catches gloves it thinks it's a ball. So it's a ball. And since the human eye can't discern whether a curveball truly passed through the strike zone before its "bottom fell out," who are we mortal umpires to say it did? As Carl Childress says, "Never make an extraordinary call on an ordinary play." Your lower-level game won't go on forever if you pick up the high strikes. And in lower-level games give the pitchers three balls outside instead of one and a half. This is game management without sacrificing your credibility.

insatty is exactly right. You will see this as you gain more experience behind the plate.

At your current level you can/should give more leeway and call more pitches that drop off strikes, but as the kids get older you should do this less and less. If you need to open up the zone a little do it laterally, dont mess with the floor of your zone.

The way the catcher handles a pitch has a lot to do with helping an umpire define his strike zone. The concept is not new and is referred to as "rewarding the mitt." I'm a firm believer just as Nick and Rich are that doing this will help you advance and make your games move along a lot smoother. If a pitch breaks off of the table and catches the zone, but is handled with the mitt turned down near the dirt, it's a ball. Calling pitches strikes just above the dirt will lead to trouble. Likewise if a breaking ball comes across the zone a little high, but the pitcher sticks the mitt, it's a strike. It would be nice if we could all call balls and strikes in a vaccum, but we all know that's not going to happen. Using the catcher to help you call pitches is a great tool.


Tim.

At the HS Varsity level I use the concept of the "strike zone of least resistance". Is this contrary to the rule? I don't think so.

For example, you have a big sweeping 12/6 curve ball that probably crosses somewhere through the strike zone, but bounces before the catcher can touch it, and ends up at the backstop. What do you think will happen if you call that one a strike?

An outside pitch is about a ball lengths outside, and the catcher jerks it back into the zone. Same pitch, but the F2 frames it, keeps his glove still. Technically, both are balls. What do you do?

If it looks like a strike, call it a strike. Use the catcher and batter as "landmarks". Generally, if the catchers glove is pointing upward, the ball is probably not too low. If the catcher doesn't have to reach above his head to catch the ball, its probably not too high. Generally, if the ball is caught within the area defined by the catcher's knees, its not too far outside or inside.

The key is consistency, call the same pitch the same way every time during the game. The pitcher's and their coach wants to be able to be comfortable that they can get the same call in the same spot every time. The best thing you can hear is a coach tell a griping player, " He's been calling that a strike all day long, now shut up and hit the damn ball".


Bob P.