Issued my first Forfeit yesterday
 

Varsity HS game, I have the plate.

The home team dominated this entire game, just about every inning produced runs for them, and nothing for the visitors. Most innings, it was 3 up - 3 down for the visitors. Both team's catchers sucked, and had trouble catching breaking balls properly. As usual, if a strike was on the fringe, and the catcher caught it ugly, I would call it a ball. If it was a fat strike, I would call it a strike no matter how he caught it. So here is where things go bad...

Top of 5th: Home 9 - Visitors 0

Visitors send 3 to the plate, home team sends 3 back to the dugout. Two strikeouts, one ground out.

Bottom of 5th: Home 9 - Visitors 0

Visitors make their first pitching change. Put in a kid that was throwing really slow / off-speed curves & junk. These pitches were ugly, but many of them were very fat strikes. I rung up one batter on a curve, a second went down swinging, and the third fly's out. I could tell the home team was getting pissy, because they didn't get that 10th run to make it a slaughter, and end the game early.

Top of 6th: Home 9 - Visitors 0

Visitors send 3 to the plate, home team sends 3 back to the dugout. Three strikeouts, two went down looking. No complaints from the visiting team.

Bottom of 6th: Home 9 - Visitors 0

Visitors make another pitching change. This kid is throwing heat and fast breaking balls. First home team batter goes down looking at a fast breaking ball. The catcher had set up too far back (as usual) and had to drop to his knees and reach in to catch it above the ground. It was a very fat strike. Batter walks off grumbling, crowd is getting upset. Next two batters reach on base hits. Fourth batter fly's out shallow, no advance of runners. Fifth batter goes down looking at the same pitch as the first batter. Catcher caught it the same way, also. Home team crowd is grumbling again (like I care). The home team just couldn't manufacture that last run off these two pitchers, and the were pissed as hell.

Top of 7th: Home 9 - Visitors 0

I am up the 1st base line a few feet, when I hear the catcher loudly telling the first base coach, both standing at the plate, what bull**** this is, how lousy my strike zone is, and how I am 'giving' the game away to the visitors. And to boot, he is looking me in the eye as he is saying it. This field has about a 15' backstop, so everybody hears what this catcher is saying. So I calmly walked over to the catcher and say, "your done for the rest of the game, go back to the dugout, your ejected." A split second after I finish saying the word ejected, another assistant coach comes flying out of the dugout, gets in my face screaming. I ask him who he is, he says that doesn't' matter, and starts screaming again. So, I calmly tell him that he is ejected also. He of course is still standing there screaming at me. I look over his head at the manager, who as managers do, is standing 10 feet away just watching, and tell him to get this guy off the field or the game is going to be over. I then turned and attempted to walk away. This guy grabs my arm, spins me around, and chest butts me, as he is continuing to scream in my face. Right there I raised my hands, stated that the game was over, and the home team just lost by forfeit (per our league rules).

My partner finally gets in from the field and pushes the guy away from me so I can leave the field. Now the coach starts screaming that I can't do that. There are only 3 outs left in this game and your going to forfeit, giving me a loss. This was a great win you just stole from us, etc. So, as I am walking off the field, I hear my partner say, "sorry guys, there's nothing I can do for you. He has called the game, I can't change it for you. It's out of my hands." I don't think I need to tell you how that made me feel. I decided not to bust him up side the head though.

So as I am walking through the parking lot, this assistant coach I had ejected comes flying around from the dugout and starts screaming at me again. The manager is, once again just behind him watching, so I tell him he better get him away from me. He says OK, and pulls him off and sends him back to the field. I figure I better just get in my car and get out of dodge without taking my gear off. As I am driving away, I realize I still have one game ball in my pouch. So I drive over to where my partner is 'still' standing talking with the manager and a couple of fans / parents, roll down the window, and toss the ball toward my partner [I use the term loosely] (it bounces a couple of times and rolls to him). As I am driving away, I see my partner still talking to them. Let me add, that when we walked out onto the field, instead of going over and checking equipment, my partner was busy shaking everybody's hand, asking how's the family to coaches and fans...A real smoozer.

My feeling about all this is they were just outraged because I did not change my zone, which was perfectly acceptable for the first 4 innings, to accommodate them getting that last run for the slaughter rule. I never have done that, and never will. It just wasn't good enough for them to win 9-0, they wanted that 10th run. Otherwise, like the coach said, they would have kept their mouths shut, gotten those last 3 inevitable outs, and gone home with the win.

So I just got off the phone with the commissioner, and he has decided to not uphold their appeal, the forfeit stands. He laughingly told me that in the appeal report, it stated that I 'threw' a baseball at the crowd in the parking lot as I was leaving. He also said that the visiting team manager's story matched up completely with mine.

To top it all off, the home team was a Christian school.

I'd make sure I relayed this entire story, specifically the part about your "partner", to your assignor. Not only should he have not acted as if it was YOU that he "couldn't do anything about", but he should have walked WITH YOU to the lot, and gotten the heck out of there as well. And you should have met up elsewhere to discuss things afterward. Talk about unprofessional on his part.

Just because it was a Chrsitian school doesn't mean that the catcher and the coach were Chrsitians. I do a bunch of games for some of the local Christian schools. If this were to happen here either the ump or the scheduler or both would talk with school administration. All of the local Chrsitian schools have written policies that this will not be toleratred and that they will deal with the offender should any issues arise that would show negatively on the Christian faith. As a Christian I do believe that we Chrsitians are held to a higher standard. We not only need to adhere to the general sportsmanship rules be we are also called to adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ which teach both absoloute and unbiased fairness and the call to hold our temper in check.

I believe the greatest strength as an umpire is that I know that as a Chrsitian I not only have to answer to my partner, the coaches, and my assigner but I have to both answer to God and to judge my fairness in calling a game by God's standards. :)

Nick,

What Mick said. ;) I know one thing, if were you, the next time I saw your "partner," I'd ask him what in the hell he was doing....and I probably wouldn't be that nice.

1. A catcher falls to his knees to catch a breaking ball, I call a ball.
2. Catcher makes an ejection level remark to me and I don't walk over to him calmly and have a conversation with him. I instantly give my best ejection signal and "you're gone" is all he hears. Everybody in the park will know what just happened.
3. Anybody comes running out of the dugout at me after I just ejected a player and they will not get to me before they also get the best ejection signal and "you're gone too". I am not going to take the time to ask them who they are. Everybody in the park will know what just happened.
4. Manager having seen two instantaneous ejections should know what is coming next if he gets involved and should try to maintain order.
5. If while driving away I find a game ball in my bag, it stays there.

Partner will get a phone call when I get home. Assignor will know I do not care to work with him and why.

I remember a game Tee posted once where he got about 5-6 ejections in a row. They just kept coming. Keep tossing until there are no coaches left and the game is forfeit for lack of coaching.

What DG said.

Plus, I'm not shy to tell catchers to move up closer. I put them where I want them, which is catching strikes.

My favorite trick is to move up to where they were set up and they have no choice but to move closer to the plate.

One of the disadvantages of the GD system is it gives the catcher too much room to hang themselves.

Since you mentioned it, I have recently abandoned the Gerry Davis stance in favor of a standard heel toe. I have taken to placing my hands behind my thighs, leaving only the soft underside of the arms exposed. I have seen numerous MLB umpires doing this, and I have taken to doing it that way.

If I could get decent catchers ever, I would love to work the scissors again, as I did most of my umpiring life.

Interesting...

I switched from what your doing now, to the GD system.

I find I get a much better look at the ball, and get hit a lot less (maybe just coincidence).

Although, in this game I took a high inside fastball untouched on my right pec.
A foul ball untouched to my inside right thigh (glad I bought the padded Interawear this year).
And another high inside fastball to the cage.

If the ball goes through the strike zone it is a strike, I don't care if it is a good or bad the catch. You can't tell catchers to move up, left, right or back --that is coaching, we're umpires not coaches. If the catcher is blocking my view of the plate, the strike zone just got smaller, I may tell him if he asks.

Good for you Nick from what you described you did exactly right. I would however have words with my partner, many bad words.

Bugg

I was taught never to forfeit a game under any circumstances. Eject if you have to, suspend play at the worst. Leave the field, call your assignor. That way the league can make a decision. The umpire never has the right to forfeit a game under any circumstance. Leave that up to the league. Suspend the game, leave the field, let the league guys figure it out. Make sure you write everything down right away to give them an accurate report, so you don't miss anything.

Your partner failed you miserably. Doesn't sound like much of a team out there. Talk to your assignor about that too.

Lastly, keep the game ball. Who cares. A prize for all the hell you went through.

Fed rules which most of my games are played under state "no coach-no game." Automatic forfiet.

I've been taught just the opposite of TussAgee11. If you eject a player or coach and they refuse to leave the field forfiet the game. If there is no allowance (threat) for forfeit why would a coach or player take you or your ejection serious?

I will say that in the past ten years I've only ever forfeited one game because the coach refused to leave. Around here all of the coaches know the law of the land. When your ejected, leave! If not wait a couple of minutes and you can take the rest of the team with you!

Of course I'm not going to instruct varsity HS or higher players concerning anything. I am talking about inexperienced catchers who obviously have no clue about the position.

I'll tell the catcher to move up if I so choose. I'm not coaching, I'm controlling the situation. If I want to be closer to the plate, the catcher is going to have to move up and catch where he is supposed to. I'm not going to call balls and strikes from 10 feet behind the plate. And I don't plan on being there all day trying to get strikes out of the pitchers, or being a human backstop for lazy catchers.

The closer and better target presented by the catcher, the easier it is for the pitcher to focus on and hit that target. If the coach hasn't taught his catchers properly, I intend to help them out, and I have. Many of these catchers have thanked me, and told me that their coach would have never noticed these things.

The catcher's main #1 job is to keep the ball off of me (with the exception of fouls, of course). Anything else he does is secondary as far as I'm concerned. I'm not out there to take a bunch of untouched fastballs off my thighs, hands, wrists, forearms and elbows. This is usually not a problem at the varsity level, but at the youth ball level the catching is usually atrocious.

Stop That
 

I wish you non-denominationalist would stop taking pot-shots at us Christians every time the religion subject RISES.

We Chritian Officials do have our own forum now. :)

http://cofficial.forumer.com/

SAump,

As a Christian, your comment prompted me to look for pot-shots, but I couldn't find any. Just what pot-shots at Christians are you referring to?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_5.gif

The catcher should set up far enough behind the plate so I get a real good look at it. Any closer and he is not helping his pitcher. Any pitch that the catcher makes look difficult to catch is a ball, because strikes are easy to catch. I have often told catchers they need to stop crowding the plate so I can see it better.

So far this year I have taken one off the thigh untouched, and one off the mask untouched, both in a college level game with the same sorry-a** catcher. Every thing else has been fouls off the chest protector or shin guard. I changed to the GD after an untouched inside fastball broke the little finger on my left hand in yet another college level game with a different sorry-a** catcher, and it was the first inning of the first game of a double header. I finished both games on a Sunday and went to the doctor on Tuesday.

OBR:
If that is so, why does section 2 include the definition
of forfeited game ?
Also 3.11 case book notes, 3.18 case book, 4.15(a) - 4.15(g),
4.16,4.17.

9.04(a) The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher.
His duties shall be to:

(6) Decide when a game shall be forfeited


Edited for clarity.

Ok, No-coach, you got 15 minutes. That's in FED.

For a coach not leaving the field? Don't utter the word forfeit. You tell go tell an assistant coach, after ejecting the manager, that "Ok coach, who's going to be your manager for the rest of the game. (wait for reply), OK, he needs to get the former manager to leave, because until he is out of my sight and sound, we are not starting this game. If he doesn't comply with this, we will wait. It is your best interest to get this game back underway, otherwise this game will be SUSPENDED and I will call the league president and my assigner about this situation. There will be far more repercussions for you and your team if I have to SUSPEND this game. Thankyou. (walk away)"

He doesn't like that? Toss him too. Then go to the next coach, right down the line until you got none left. Then say "you got 15 minutes to present a certified coach, and I want to see his documents (each state varies on this part)". Stand quietly on the line, if the situation gets out of control say "this game is suspended and both teams will be notified about its outcome by the league." Walk off the field, get in your car, drive away, park a mile down the road, and change.

Thats how I learned it. More than open to constructive critisisms from NCAA or JUCO umpires, or experienced FED umps. This is how I was taught from an NCAA umpire at a clinic, I'm not just making this up, so don't shoot me for it.

My only basketball ejection of a head coach in 19 years was the HC of a Christian school.

Nick's story didn't surprise me at all.

I don't work baseball anymore but even I know better than that.

You might want to buy a rule book and read it.

Matter of fact, this is one of the places where the umpire-in-chief has authority over other umpires on the crew....

Tuss,

I believe what people have a problem with is your use of the words "never" and "any circumstance." There most certainly are circumstances in which an umpire has not only the right, but the obligation to forfeit games.

I'm just telling you what I was taught.

There are plenty of stuff in the rulebook that sometimes we go against because its "code", if you know what I mean.

Don't shoot me about it, I told you I wanted constructive critisism, however some of you can't do that without blaming me for what I was taught...

Sorry for having been in a bad clinic or something cause its clearly my fault...

I was told this was a code of the umpire not to forfeit games.

Hehehehe,
 

I cannot picture a situation, when working with tuskagee11, where we could face the possibility of a forfeit.

We would both understand how to get around the "career killing" option of ending a game prematurely.

HOWEVER, I had a forfeit just last summer.

Lah Me!

Regards,

Hmmmmm, let's see......one team only has 7 players prior to the game. 15 minutes after the scheduled start time, they still only have 7 players. The umpire-in-chief declares the game a forfeit. There. That is one example of a circumstance in which an umpire can, and must, forfeit a game. There are many others.

TussAgee, this is the only thing we have a problem with. You said "never" and that just ain't right. That is "constructive criticism," that you should be careful when using absolutes such as "all," "never," and "always," since there is usually an exception to these absolutes.

I think a better rule of thumb would be to never forfeit a game unless there is no other option available. That would have made your clinician's statement correct.

A forfeit should be the last option...
 

but there are times when we don't have a choice.

For my situation, our league rules are quite clear.

Lets look at another situation;

Say a team can not field enough players to start a game or inning (varies with leagues). That is an automatic forfeit, which is declared by the UIC. No option or choices.

Maybe someone should start an "All the ways to earn a Forfeit" thread. You know, like they do for advancing to 1st base, over, and over, and over again.

By the way, in our part of the world, we give an ejected player / coach 60 seconds to leave the field, or the game is over. That is backed by the commissioner. I think someone posted 15 minutes ! A lot can happen to an official in 15 minutes. And 15 minutes is a long time for someone to incite the crowd or other players against you, and a long time to work themselves up to do something they normally wouldn't do. Getting them off the field ASAP is not only in the best interest of the umpire and the game, but also the one being ejected. In my experience, 60 seconds takes forever.

And for those of you who don't get the point of my post...The assistant coach caused the forfeit, not me. I just handed him, and his team, their hats. A career ending forfeit is one that is administered for the wrong reason, or not in line with the rules. I followed the rules, as is evident by the commissioner upholding the forfeit.

My dad taught me to avoid pulling your gun at all costs, but if you do, pull the trigger without hesitation !

[QUOTE=TussAgee11]For a coach not leaving the field? Don't utter the word forfeit. You tell go tell an assistant coach, after ejecting the manager, that "Ok coach, who's going to be your manager for the rest of the game. (wait for reply), OK, he needs to get the former manager to leave, because until he is out of my sight and sound, we are not starting this game. If he doesn't comply with this, we will wait. It is your best interest to get this game back underway, otherwise this game will be SUSPENDED and I will call the league president and my assigner about this situation. There will be far more repercussions for you and your team if I have to SUSPEND this game. Thankyou. (walk away)"
The only forfeit I have ever had, was in a 13-14 youth league game when I tossed the head coach, and at first he would not leave the dugout. I told the lead assistant (he had several, but I knew who was next in line) to get rid of him. The assistant was able to talk him into leaving, he left the dugout and stationed himself at the top of a walkway about 100 feet behind the dugout hollering coaching instructions down to the assistant. When I told him he had to be in the parking lot, out of sight and where we could not hear him he said the magic words to me and I forfeited the game. It was something along the lines of "you can't make me do anything, followed by a comment about me making the big bucks to umpire and I should learn the rules". They were losing 12-5 in the 5th at the time. From toss to forfeit was about 5 minutes. I can't imagine taking 15 to get there.

I think the 15 minutes might be in reference to the time you wait from game time for a team to field a team?

Bob P.

Christian schools in my experience have some of the worst behavior out there. In a JV game a couple of years ago between a school that is in the country, and a Christian school from the city, I had a bench restriction of the Christian school coach, the near ejection of one player for language and almost had a fight.

The state that I'm in if a manager coach or player contacts a game official in a high school contest they are ban for life.

Is that intentional only or does it include unintentional too? Seems a little harsh to me for incidental contact. I can see where it would come in to effect if there was contact with the intent to cause harm to the official. Just my $.02.

intentional contact bumping, grabbing, pushing and so on.

Sorry, but as a parent of three players in private schools, an ICCL umpire, and an ICCL coach, I find your statement to be completely ridiculous!

I would say your experience is limited in working these games and you encountered a few anomolies.


Tim.

56: why exactly is his statement ridiculous? Do you have info that would show it to be untrue? If true, how can the STATEMENT be ridiculous?

Just because you have three kids in private schools, and umpire and coach in private school leagues doesn't mean this stuff doesn't happen. I'm a strong Christian, have worked various sports for years for mostly public and a few private schools and have witnessed less than professional behavior from private school coaches and less than Christian behavior from their students. Doesn't mean I have anything bad to say about private schools in general, but I do think the coaches and administration of those schools need to accept the fact that they must have behavior from all individuals a step or two above what's expected in general sporting events.

There's nothing unreasonable about that.

You may become shy if you ever verbally re-position a catcher and he gets hurt and informs the coach that his injury wouldn't have happened if the umpire had not made him adjust his position.

Sure it happens in parochial schools. There's no disputing that. I guess I over reacted when his claim was that the problem is worse in Christian schools. I just don't believe that to be true as a general statement. I read the post again and see he's just relating his personal experience, and there's no way anyone outside of his area can dispute that. I don't want to seem holier-than-thou, but I believe the private schools should model only exemplary behavior when it comes to a code of conduct, far above those so often displayed in the public school systems. Maybe I'm setting the standard too high for our participants as to my expectations.


Tim.

Well, Steve, I think you should be shy about coaching a catcher on where to set up. He has a coach and it's his responsibility. If the catcher want's to set up too close or too far back it's on him when his pitcher can't buy a strike. Let the coach handle it.


$.02

Tim.

I don't work baseball, but I disagree telling him to move up is coaching. That's similar in basketball to saying "this is a spot throw in, so stay put" or "you can run the line." Or even, "blue 23, get your hands off."

There's also guys in football that think its coaching to tell players on the end who are supposed to be on the line (or off of it) to move up or get back, as the case may be. Although I agree that you should limit such discussion above, say, 9th grade games, I still don't think its coaching. I'm going to tell the defender he's offsides if he's lined up in the neutral zone and I have a chance to. If he doesn't get back, I'll throw a flag just like I would if the offense stays in an illegal formation.

I don't think its coaching unless you, by your actions or statements, are giving one team a clear advantage over the other. Telling a kid to "lay off that curve ball because I'm not calling a strike on it" is one thing. Telling a catcher to move up when he may not be aware he's too far back is another. If he's missing balls, that's affecting you as an umpire. The kid swinging isn't affecting you.

I don't agree with your examples. In your basketball case, you informing the player of the rule governing the play. Also, they don't get to choose where they take the ball out. That too is decided by rule.

In baseball, the rule is the catcher must be in the catcher's box, period. There is no rule as to the exact position he must be in inside the box. Just like a batter.

I don't agree with telling the catcher where to set-up, for all the reasons already stated against it. Besides, how the heck do I know what pitch the pitcher is going to throw, and where the catcher should set up for it ? Then, there are the catchers who start out in one spot, then move to the spot they need to be after the pitcher begins their motion.

Telling the catcher where to be is worse than coaching, it's controlling the game. If you put the catcher in the wrong place, you could make a strike look like a ball, and vise versa.

Sadly enough, I have to agree. Over the years, I have had more trouble with Christian schools than all other schools put together.

I had to run another Assistant coach of a Christian team again today;

Christian team is ahead, 10 - 0 over the visitors in the bottom of the 4th.

Their batter hits a blooper down the 1st base line, just past 1st. F1 circles around to make the play. I am standing on the line looking out, about 10' from the play. F1 is standing with both feet in fair territory, reaches out into foul territory (his entire arm) and makes contact with the ball, which pops out of his glove, hits the ground and comes to rest in fair territory. I call Foul Ball. Christian teams *** (3 letter abbrev. for Assistant) coach on first goes crazy, arguing it is fair because it rested in fair territory, and F1 was standing in fair territory when he made contact. I got him calmed down, told him what I saw, informed him of the rule, and got him to go back to his spot, without ejecting him.

One batter later, we have R1 & R2, 0 outs (IFR). B3 hits a low blooper down 1st base line. R1 takes a step toward 2nd, then decides to go back to 1st, in doing so, he runs smack into F1 who was charging the ball to make the catch, and knocks him out of the play. I kill the play, call Interference, call R1 out, and send B3 to 1st base. Coach goes ballistic again, saying the Batter should be out, and R1 returns to 1st. I immediately dumped him. My partner, not sure who was out and who wasn't, comes to me to ask who should be out and who should be on base. After I explain the rule to him, while this coach is now claiming it should have been an IFR (ball was too low, and would have been caught on the run). I head back to my position C. This coach now approaches my partner and starts in on him, and my partner talks to him about it for several minutes !!!! At this point, the visitor's coach is yelling that we need to get the game going, that I had already ejected the coach, and that my partner should not be taking the time to explain anything to an assistant coach (very refreshing). I had to tell the home team manager (who as usual was standing back just watching) to get him off the field or the game was going to be over. He did, we finished, and the home team (Christian team) won in the top of the 5th, 10 - 0.

But once again, here you have a Christian team that is slaughtering their opponents, nit picking and complaining, while the losing (non-Christian team) is once again taking the loss with dignity. I will say though, at the top of the 5th inning, when F1 came back in, he apologized for his coaches behavior. I thanked him. Maybe the coaches should attend some of the schools classes.

Once again I say that just because they coach/attend a Christian school doesn't make them a Chrsitian. Going to church doesn't make you a Chrsitian any more then going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger. The Bible says you can tell a TRUE Christian by their deeds!

I would have to agree with you 1000 % on that.

But if your going to choose a coach for a Christian HS, I think you should choose a Christian coach. Every one of them. They not only coach the team, they represent the school, and everything it stands for. Knowing the sport is not enough. They need to have the same beliefs the school was founded on, and believes in.

Just my humble opinion (HMO).

No. Telling the catcher to move up so you can get a better view is like you telling the center to stop posting up because he's getting in your way.

The players play. We umpire. The first time you tell a catcher to move up for your convenience, and he has a passed ball because he's not where he is used to being, you've negatively affected the game. I have no problem with (if asked) telling a coach that bad positioning by the catcher is causing your position behind the catcher to be not ideal, so it's possible you're missing some strikes. But telling the CATCHER to move is wrong.

Early in my career, in a game I was observing, an old smitty PU told a catcher to move up twice, and on the very next pitch, the batter hit the catcher's glove hard. Catcher had to be replaced, by a kid who had no idea what he was doing back there. Coach had to be replaced, as his (justified, in my mind) tirade at PU was rather protracted. And when all the facts came to the board, the umpire was reprimanded.

Again, I think that you are giving FAR FAR FAR too much leeway to ASSistant coaches. Assistant coaches have 1 job - coaching their players. Their job is NOT to give any lip to the umpires. If it requires ANY effort more than 4 words and a stop sign to "calm down" as ASSistant coach, he's gone. The manager gets more leeway, but HE is the only one who should be disputing/discussing calls with you.

And as an aside, interestingly I've never had problems with a Christian school in baseball, but I would agree with all of the above comments regarding the poor behavior/demeanor of the Christian school FOOTBALL coaches I've worked with, as compared to their public school brethren.

I have to throw in a counter-story, just to show they aren't ALL like this.

I work a D3 college conference where one school is a Bible College. This school's coach only EVER gets upset when kids on the other team throw an F-bomb that he can hear at which point I just ask the other team's head coach to help me out.

In 3 seasons of working this school, I can't remember any other comments or arguments coming from this school.

Happy EASTER
 

Thanks for cleaning the kettle a bit.

PEACE to ALL.

not necessarily...one of the local private Christian schools hired the son of the pastor to be the head coach. Because of the actions of this coach, I have voluntarily scratched myself from working any of their football games. The guy is a fraud and a knucklehead.

I believe that HS sports are an extension of the classroom...HS sports at a Christian school are an extension of the classroom and the Bible. If the coach can't conduct himself appropriately and the administrators refuse to correct the situation, I refuse to work their games.

Well, I must disagree. As I said, I don't tell high school catchers, or American Legion catchers, or college catchers, or adult league catchers where to position themselves. They already know what they are doing. I am talking about lower level kids that have no clue of how to actually catch a baseball, and that expect me to catch it for them on EVERY OTHER PITCH!!! I have asked (never demanded) or suggested to (never insisted on) catchers to move up a little (not to where they would stick their stupid gloves into the bat path) for going on 21 years now.

I will tell a catcher, "hey, you are costing your pitcher some strikes by being so far back, and if you can manage it, you should get in closer, buddy." That is more or less how I handle it. Or, I just move up a foot while he's throwing it back to the pitcher, and then he will just have to adjust now, won't he?

I've never gotten a kid injured, nor have a rash of passed balls developed from it (any more than were already occurring every other pitch), an in fact improved the quality of most of their catching, and gave their pitchers a target that they could actually see without binoculars, thus less passed balls, not more.

Like I said before, I have had many young catchers thank me profusely for "wising them up" as Ward Cleaver would say. They have, on many occasions when thanking me, told me that their coach never took the time to show them anything.

I never have just worked HS ball and that's all, like some guys do. I worked and still do work at every level of amateur baseball where they use an umpire. The younger players (12 and younger) occasionally need a little mechanical help, which often, sadly enough, does not come from their coaches.

would that be Marantha? i watched my brother's team play them once and i think i remember seeing the coach flip out about this, but it could have been another school. im pretty sure you work in that area, but i could be completely wrong.

I have never said a word to a catcher about setting up "too far back". It's the ones who crowd the plate so much I can't get a good look at it that I speak to.

I don't like the plate crowders either. I like to be able to just see the entire plate, and that is all. The catcher then is not so close as to get his glove whacked on every swing, but not so far back that he makes every strike look like a ball.

Like I said, my usual way is to just set up where I want to stand, and the catcher will often back into me, and realize I want him up more.

A catcher will never back into me and I will never ask one to move up.

You need to see the plate to call pitches ? What a concept !

I'm kind of joking, but kind of not.

I use the GD Stance, so I set up in the same place no matter where the catcher is. After a while, you get used to knowing where the plate is, even when you can't see all of it. Because I am in (almost) exactly the same place for every pitch, I know where the/my zone is, even if there was no plate at all.

Hey, there's another idea...Lose the plate, then nobody can argue our pitch calling.

Bottom of 5th: Home 9 - Visitors 0

Visitors make their first pitching change. Put in a kid that was throwing really slow / off-speed curves & junk. These pitches were ugly, but many of them were very fat strikes. I rung up one batter on a curve, a second went down swinging, and the third fly's out. I could tell the home team was getting pissy, because they didn't get that 10th run to make it a slaughter, and end the game early.

There is many things going on here so i will ddress them one at a time.

1. You say the pitches were ugly but were fat strikes. Not sure what you mean. In any event, you are in the bottom of 5 sounds like the game is ugly so do what you can to get that 10th run and go home. it's apparent from what you describe that the VT was not going to score anywhere near 10 runs.

2. The aforementioned does excuse the behavior that ensued. The one thing I find today that was NOT present when I played, is "What's the score" When we were up by 9 runs or more with only 2 innings left we swung the bats. get the game over with. in fact we wanted the PU to open up the zone to get the game over with.

3. IMO, your partner's behavior is the BIGGEST issue in the thread. In HS after umpiring for 2 yrs or more, we get to know the coaches, however, we BOTH enter the field together and check the equipment and we BOTH leave the field together. I would have a conversation with this partner first and find out what his story was and then contact the assignor and tell hime what happened.

SUMMARY: In the future, whenever you can get the mercy rule - get it and go home. Carry a cell phone etc. and as soon as someone bumps you - Do not be Mr. Nice-guy call the police and have him arrested.

NOTE: We are now instructed even in Summer ball that whenever a caoch/assitant coach or player bumps you to call the police. As mentioned no more Mr. Nice guy. it's time to put an end to such nonsense. the team is up by 9 runs and the assistant is going ballistic tells you all you need to know about this individual.

Pete Booth

Nick, I do a lot of PSAL (Parochial School Athletic League) here in the East Bay area. My experience has been quite the opposite with the behavior of coach's and player's. I also do lot of other non-parochial ball as well, and the behavior of those player's and coach's is a lot different than the PSAL. I was blown away when before my first PSAL game, the two teams gathered at home plate for a prayer.

As for the GD, you will need to make some adjustments. But you are correct, for the most part, you set up in the same place, at the same head height for every batter. The most common adjustment I make is "up and back" to try to get a clearer view of the plate.

Bob P.