Suppose the defense loses its right to appeal a missed base or a runner leaving too soon after a caught fly ball but tries to appeal anyway. As an umpire, what is the proper way to handle this? Signal safe? Make no call and wait for the defensive coach to go balistic?

OBR and FED interpretations welcome.

I do not signal anything, there's no appeal so there's no signal needed. I explain to the coach why he can't appeal.

Hopefully he'll study the rule book and learn how to make a proper appeal.

Just for my education, what is an improper appeal?

I do not mean this as a smart a$$ answer but you need to study the rule book to learn what can be appealed, when it can be appealed and the proper appeal procedure(s).

Basiclly an improper appeal is anything that does not meet the appeal criteria/method referenced in the rule book.

As an example, if the appeal is attempted after another pitch has occurred.

-LilLeaguer

That would be a stupid appeal!!
I know what is a proper appeal. The reason I asked the question was that a lot of so-called umpires will make stupid statements such as: On an appeal with mulitple runners passing 2B, and the player appeals the wrong runner, will say that it was not a proper appeal and tell them they lose the right to now appeal the correct runner. This is a stupid umpire.

I apologize for missing the intent of your question. I did not understand that you had an axe to grind.

As to your sitch, sign me,

-Stupid Umpire

Maybe you should have stated your question clearly. Your original question was "what is an improper appeal?", you asked nothing about an appeal with multi-runners passing 2B and a player appeals the wrong player.

I guess you "smart" umpires can all read minds.

Signed.....

ASU

Apparently he only thinks he knows "what is a proper appeal".

An appeal is a play, whether or not it’s a proper appeal needs a ruling from the umpire. As you said the defensive manager is going to go ballistic anyway. Why not do something that could prevent it? "Can’t appeal after…………." with no hand signal. let everyone know why. Unless you’re calling pro ball it’s our job as umpires to educate. Does that mean give a clinic on appeals, NO.

[Edited by EMBUAump on Mar 18th, 2006 at 07:32 AM]

...plus, asking "What is an improper appeal?" is only slightly more specific than "What makes a runner out?".

There are "improper" appeals that cause the defense to lose their right to further appeals, and those that don't. Some also confuse improper appeals with those that simply can't be honored (big difference).

It's hard to interpret tone in a typed message. Please, read the rule then be more specific and directed when asking questions.

D-man

Well,
 

Back to the original question:

If an appeal was incorrectly being made (let's assume it is an OBR game and the ball has gone into DBT and the umpire has not yet put the ball back into play)what signal or statement would you make as an umpire?

appeal
 

I'd say, you can't appeal while the ball is dead.

"If an appeal was incorrectly being made (let's assume it is an OBR game and the ball has gone into DBT and the umpire has not yet put the ball back into play)what signal or statement would you make as an umpire?"

From an upright position with arms folded, shake your head "No". Explainations by request. THAT'S the mechanic.


NEXT!

What’s your source?

PLEASE let me rephrase and ask "When does a team lose the right to appeal"?

A team loses the right to appeal when (a)the defensive team has initiated another play somewhere, (b)when the last defensive player has stepped over the foul line to end the inning, or (c) when the last umpire leaves the field.

The first case is the most likley, lets say the coach is yelling at the pitcher to appeal. While this is going on, the runner at second (not involved in the appeal play) bolts for third. The pitcher throws to third to try to make a play. Regardless of that, when the ball is returned to the mound, they have not lost that right. The offense intiated a play, an appeal is still good.

If the pitcher tried to pick him off (a throw over off the rubber or just a throw from off the rubber), after the play is dead or ended in reasonable judgement of the umpire, they lose that right.

At the end of innings/games, the (b) and (c) may apply.

Remember verbal appeals can be made in certain dead ball scenarios as well, most notably when a player misses a base on a walk off homer. As you are walking off the field, the defensive coach runs up to you, says "the batter missed 2nd base". That is a legal appeal (and one alot of us would say "no he didn't" to, but thats a different debate).

I'm not so sure about other dead ball appeals, but I think FED allows them to be made verbally anytime the ball has been made dead by something that has happened during the play. Help?

One more thing I just thought of:

The defense leaving the field speaks only of the ending of innings/games. I can't imagine why they would appeal if the inning was already over, unless its a 4th out appeal on a runner that scored. I think this is a verbal appeal as well.

But if there is a weather delay or something of the sort, obviously they don't lose the right to appeal.

"What’s your source?"

Common sense, I guess.

You can't call "safe", "out", "time" or "foul". You can't just stand there like a dolt. You've got to do SOMETHING to let everyone know what you're "non-calling".

Better idea?

First OBR

In OBR the ball needs to be Live before the defense can appeal. Let's assume B1 hit a gapper in right center field and missed first base on his way to second base. F3 throws a pitch to the next batter. F4 noticed that B1 missed first base on his way to second. He gets the ball from F1, tags R2 and says "hey Blue he missed first base". At this point since it was an improper appeal you simply give the safe sign. If the coach wants an explanation he can request Time and you simply say "Hey Skip F1 threw a pitch, "all bets off" Let's play ball


Now FED

Use the same scenario as above but this Time the coach requests TIME and now wants to appeal. At this point since the ball is dead You simply say the same thing as above. "Skip F1 threw a pitch, no appeal granted. Let's Play

If it's a Live ball you treat the call no different than if there was NO appeal, meaning if the runner is standing on second and the fielder initiates a TAG the call is SAFE as you would normally do on a pickoff attempt.

Pete Booth

I guess you aren't working FED, then.