Putting a new ball in play after a foul out of play...

Give to F2 or throw to F1.

What do you guys do?

Is one preferred/taught over another?

I almost always give to F2, my reasoning is no one came to the ball park to see me throw the ball.

To my knowledge no one teaches one over the other, it is personal prefference, and IMHO no one should.

I don't know if there is a " preferred " on this. I usually give the new ball to the catcher. I have found that I don't throw the ball well with my chest protector on and I don't need to give anyone a chance to laugh at me or criticize me ( I know they already have plenty of opportunities. I'll save you the trouble of posting it ). If the catcher is up the 1st or 3rd base line chasing the one that he might have caught that ended up out of play and the pitcher is standing close looking at me for the ball, I will toss it to him. Just depends on my mood.

Depends on where F2 is.

If he's at the backstop or other place chasing the foul, I throw a fresh one to F1, collect the foul (as applicable) from F2.

If its out of play and F2 is there next to me, I hand it to him.

Well,
 

I threw the ball back to F1 until 1981.

Then Jerry Narron said to me: "Tee, it is our job to throw the ball to the pitcher, not yours!"

Have only handed a ball or two to the pitcher since that day.

I also think it is a good idea to not allow the catcher to chase foul balls, hand him one as soon as you can. If he is chasing a pop-up that is one thing, but a batted ball that goes back or a passed ball with no one on, I give him one when he turns around. IMO this speeds that game up, the on deck guy or a coach can get the ball, the catcher can throw the one I give him back and get the sign from the coach and we can get moving. If we wait for him to get back that is time lost with him getting back and getting the sign, and then the pitch delaying the game about 30 seconds every time he goes to get one. If in a game both catchers combine to chase down 20 of these that is 10 min added to the game time.

Any thoughts?

Mr. B
 

I agree completely.

Often I hear of umpire's telling a partner "how much they hustled" during the game only to find out that THEY also run back to get that ball fouled back into the screen (what Tim McCarver would call a 'foul tip').

As soon as you feel that ball zip back get one out of the selection, hand it to the catcher and cut off F2 chase.

We can all control certain parts of the delays that occur during a game . . . this is one of them.

I sort of enjoyed tossing the ball out to F1 until last year, when I casually flipped the ball toward him from about 40 feet and it bounced about five feet short of him. As long as the catcher is within a firm underhand toss, I won't be throwing to F1 any longer. I felt like a total fool that day.

Re: Mr. B
 

good points. Anything that we can do to speed the game up is good.

On deck batters can get the balls, F2 throw back to the mound and I'm supervising.

The only time I throw it back to F1 is when F2 chases a foul ball and is looking for his mask, its a lot quicker for me to give a quick flip to F1 and we're all back in place a lot quicker.

thanks
David

I call it the "quick draw". The bag is on my right hip. How fast can I get one out and delivered to the catcher?

i wrote about this same topic last fall. i only throw if the catcher is somewhere else, and even then i try and brush the plate off or something so that i dont need to throw the ball right away. i try to always give the catcher the ball, because i end up burying the ball into the mound or sending it into center field. BB2000s arent too easy to throw with in my experiences, but of course they arent designed to do so.

I'll add another point...

Never toss the ball to the catcher - I always make it a point to HAND the ball to the catcher. Why, because I don't want them to toss the ball to me. Why, because I can't catch, especially with an indiclicker and a mask in my hand.

For me, it's a respect thing as well as a rapport builder with F2. You know F2 really has a clue when he not only hands the ball instead of flips it to you, but the good ones will prop the ball up on the edge/tip of their mitt and "serve" it to you. Now that's what I call RESPECT.

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, you probably think I'm crazy. But sometimes, it's just the little things that people do that says a lot about their professionalism.

Another good one is when you turn to the ball boy and signal/tell him you need 3 baseballs. Then, another foul ball goes into the stands and rather than bringing out 3 balls, he now gives you 4 (to account for the foul ball). Now that's a ball boy who is paying attention or what I call, "has a clue".

Like I said, it's the "little" things ;)

im not to the point where i can point over and ask for 3 pearls, but i do get a fair amount of balls coming in since we get rid of them once they get more than a little dinged up. if they get tossed to the catcher, a very good amount of them serve it up like you said or at least hand it to me. i dont mind catching a few when the on deck batter has one or two and we are low on balls for some reason.

i agree with you Sal, that you should hand it to the catcher. a lot of them stick their glove back and i slap one right into the pocket. some like to reach back with the bare hand, which i dont like as much, but its better than nothing.

I almost always give the ball to F2. It's his job to handle the ball and mine to call balls & strikes.

Besides, nothing is worse than a bad throw from the PU to F2! :D

I throw to F1...while the catcher is grabbing the other ball. I have a good arm and always make quality throws, plus, my F2's appreciate it.

Well,
 

2Rad4U wrote:

" . . . plus, my F2's appreciate it."

And this is just an example of how different regions of America react to different situations.

This coming August 3rd will mark the 25th anniversary of the last time I tossed a ball back to F1.

Just before each catcher throws down to second in the first inning I say:

"My name is Tee and I don't throw balls back to the pitcher I will hand them to you."

The universal answer I get in my neck of the woods is:

"Thanks, I HATE umpires that throw the ball back, I like to do it!"

Just matters what is the situation on your part of the globe.

never throw
 

I never throw a ball back to the pitcher for many of the reasons listed before....but a few years ago I had given a ball to the catcher to throw back to the pitcher and he drilled the ball back and caught the unsuspecting pitcher in the side of the head......If I had thrown it, I
'd expect to get a call from mommy and daddy's attorney....as it was all it turned out was a "sorry man, I thought you were looking.......

Stan

Once again the redneck from NC here (which coincidentally is the home of Jerry Narron). I used to exclusively throw the ball to F1. I've noticed my throwing isn't so hot so now I will hand the ball to F2 if he stays put and toss the ball to F1 if the catcher is gone. Usually F1 has come toward the plate and it's only about a 40 ft throw to him.

We have very few on deck batters that chased passed balls with no one on and foul balls to the screens. Catchers almost exclusively handle this. I actually think it's good for them on a true passed ball, it teaches them to catch the dang ball instead of screwing it up :).

Lawrence

I always give the ball to F2, unless he is slow out of the dugout and F1 wants the ball to start the inning. F1 has to ask for it though.

We also have the on deck batter get the WP and PB with no-one on or no-stealing situations (in leagues that use those). Many of these leagues have time limits so anything to keep the games moving.

As a rule, I never throw the ball back to F1.

On the rare occasion I must, maybe the F2 has had a stroke, or coronary ( I do some men's senior ball) I do my best Phil Niekro imitation and knuckle the ball back to F1.

Bob P.

Where I work, neither the ondeck guy nor the coach will chase foul balls, unless they happen to roll right in front of them. F2 is going to chase it no matter what I do, so I might as well get a ball to F1 right away to speed up the game. I can't call "play" with a foul ball lying by the backstop, and I'm sure as hell not going to go get it.....

reading the other responses, this may be more a matter of the level of ball. I gotta get to the 'ballboy' level so I can do what yall do! ;)


[Edited by LMan on Mar 10th, 2006 at 07:59 PM]

I'm interested to hear you all hand it to F2. My association tells me to throw it back ALWAYS. If you have are physically able.

I had a catcher last year who said, just give me the damn ball. I used to catch, I kind of understand his frustration, by throwing you are interupting the chemistry that the catcher and pitcher have. But I had a very important umpire in the association working the bases that game, so I told F2 that as a rule the umpire should be throwing the ball back, and that I understood where he was coming from. I then made it a point to pick up his mask a couple times for him.

I stick it into F1's glove pretty good, the thing that scares me about throwing it back is the one time the pitcher isn't ready for it, you break the kid's nose, and now you have serious problems. If I were making the rules, always hand it to F2.

Unless F2 is way up the line from chasing a foul ball that went out of play, I give the ball to F2.

And, when balls come back from out of play, I always have F2 catch them, and hand them to me. I also say thank you each time.

It just doesn't look good to miss a throw to F1, or to bobble a ball that has been thrown to you from the dugout.

Also, if you're on a field that has a deep backstop (as it should be), don't make F2 chase a passed ball with no runners on, or a foul ball. Hand him a new ball, and let the on deck batter get it. You will be surprised at how much time is saved.

[Edited by nickrego on Mar 12th, 2006 at 02:11 AM]

i was down in STL today and yesterday watching my brother play (D3) and smitty PU was throwing the ball back almost every time. he buried at least 3 balls into the dirt, and threw 2 over F1's head.

oh yeah, he was wearing a black MLB uniform shirt with andy fletcher's number on it (i had to look that up, its #49). this guy probably couldnt even spell MLB.

1. out of about 10 i would say. most of these were to the opposing F1 who had no problems finding the zone, he actually did very well. neither F1 really had any problems, it was just PU trying to throw when he didnt know how.

2. my "beef" with the guy is that he thought he was a big shot wearing his MLB uniform shirt. last i checked, you dont just find those anywhere. the guy wore that shirt in both games, on the bases and the plate, with a navy hat. this was all while his partner wore a navy jacket and navy hat during both games. he was wearing the shirt simply to show it off, and any mom in the stands could have told you that. i only bring up fletcher because 49 is fletchers number, no problem with fletch.

3. **** you is all you are getting out of that one. email me in private if you want to talk **** on my family. that is not what this thread is for.

[Edited by briancurtin on Mar 12th, 2006 at 02:32 AM]

Brian:

You're above verbally jousting with this troll. He's just trying to bait you. If we ignore him he'll eventually slither off back to his own forum where he can post back and forth to himself.


Tim.

Brian,

Are you saying that this guy was wearing an actual MLB jersey complete with patch? Was this actually an Andy Fletcher jersey? If so, what a boob! It is hard to believe anybody would wear a black shirt with a navy hat, or not dress to match his partner. I would scratch that idiot in a hurry.

There is nothing wrong with wearing MLB black, as long as your hat and ball bags match, and your partner is dressed the same way.

I throw the ball back to the pitcher with short backstops when the catcher chases the ball. On 60ft. backstops, we have the on-deck hitter chase the ball, and I pound the new ball into the catcher's mitt.

Black is an acceptable color for NCAA ball.

We digressed into a uniform color debate. Wear the color that is appropriate to your area. Please don't post that wearing black or blue or light blue or white or chartreuse, etc is acceptable. It may only be acceptable in your domain.

The reason minor league umpires are taught to throw the ball back is to speed the game up. If you are incapable of that throw, by all means hand the ball to the catcher and have him return it. If you choose to throw a ball back, do it properly. Step away from the batter and toss it - don't try your deuce or splitter. Don't play keep away or bounce it in either. Typically the pitcher is in front of the mound and you are only 50 feet from him. Have some pride and make a good throw if you choose to do this mechanic. Otherwise, stay behind the catcher and save your arm for cocktails after the game.

As an aside, I've witnessed many colleagues come into a season with a bum wing. I know of one guy who couldn;t throw a ball back if he wanted too. A freak late winter storm dumped some snow that was perfect ammunition for a snowball fight with his two sons. He threw his arm out and had rotator cuff surgery - missing the entire season! Now is the time that Chicago area guys are getting ready. Stretch, loosen up, jog and lose that winter weight. Pulling a hamstring, tricep or lower back is never fun. Especially in front of a ball field full of athletes.

Amazing: If I worked where you work, the on-deck batter <i>would</i> retrieve the ball. It's a courtesy ever present - when I'm behind the mask.

You only have to yell "On deck!!" a couple of times to get everyone on the same track.

Coaches in the boxes often retrieve foul balls; coaches on defense, never, since I don't let them out of the dugout.

Concerning returning the ball to the pitcher:

Professional umpires on the way up fire the ball to the pitcher; it's one way they demonstrate they belong on the field with professional ball players.

I hope they have good liability insurance.

yeah i realize this, but this had the MLB logo on the chest pocket and back of the neck. i like black myself, but not a real, seemingly authentic MLB shirt. especially when your partner is wearing all navy, and your own hat and ball bags are navy as well.

i just think its trying to be someone you arent by wearing that shirt on the field. others may disagree, but that was really my only problem with the shirt itself.

[Edited by briancurtin on Mar 13th, 2006 at 09:39 AM]

*shrug* I only relate the situation as it is. Where I work, F2 jumps up the instant a ball goes to the backstop (even fouled off), so they are obviously taught to do that at their level (for whatever reason, I don't know). There's almost never a F2 to hand a ball to, if I were so inclined.

If the ball is obviously 'out', F2 will stand and put his mitt out to me for a ball. If he isn't sure its 'out', then he's off to the races, and I'm tossing a ball to F1 (who's walked toward me to ~ 45 feet). I haven't missed a toss yet, although there's always a first time.

I will have to try calling 'on-deck!' sometime to see if the ODB reacts. Might be entertaining.

Change not a bad thing~
 

It shouldn't matter what everyone else does, you are in charge of your game and its very easy to fix.

Simply tell F2, "we'll let the ondeck guys to the chasing tonight, give them something to do".

F2 will love you for it, and the time saved in a three hour game ....

Might take a few reminders, but after a couple of innings everyone should be on board.

thanks
David

Here's some advice that will speed up your games immensely. First:

At the pre-game meeting, "remind" the coaches that the on-deck batter should retrieve all loose balls when the bases are empty: wild pitch, passed ball, foul: "Coach, don't forget to let them know that's their job."

Second:

The first time the catcher starts for a ball that the on-deck batter should get, say: "Wait up, Hoss!"

Finally:

Before your post, I had never heard of an "area" where the catchers chased free balls. Amazing!

How about letting us know what part of the country that is?

Added: My conscience reminded me that the on-deck batter CANNOT get the loose ball after a wild pitch/passed ball because that never occurs unless a runner moves up a base. What I <i>meant</i> to say was: "The on-deck batter should retrieve loose balls, i.e, foul balls or pitches not controlled by the catcher."

[Edited by Carl Childress on Mar 13th, 2006 at 02:43 PM]

Thanks for the good input, I will try your methods and see how it goes.



Would "Aler-bamer" surprise you? :D

It might also depend on the level of ball. Around here, for example, HS and up the on-deck batter retrieves; lower, F2 usually retrieves.

Carl's suggestions work for the Frosh ball -- where they are "learning" the ropes. They are genererally ineffective for the lower level stuff. Above Frosh, the players generally have learned what to do.

And
 

The level of ball often dictates the layout of the field: if all you've got is 10 feet between F2 and the backstop, it's not much of a burden for F2 to fetch. At higher levels, where there's 60 feet, it makes more sense for someone else to do it.

In my part of Aler-bamer, the ODB runs those
down, not F2.

You are fortunate, then.

In my part of Alabama (Morgan, Cullman, and Lawrence Counties) the ODB always goes after foul balls at the backstop.
Tighten them up LMan!!

uh huh, that will happen :rolleyes:


......We'll see Mideast peace before 'traditions' change around here! :D