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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 05:55pm
gxc gxc is offline
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OBR rule 6.06 (b) is quite clear...

A batter is out for illegal action when_

(b) He steps from one batter's box to the other while the pitcher is in position ready to pitch;
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 06:07pm
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They say the exact same thing. There's no mention of the mound in either book. Only that the batter is out if the pitcher is in position ready to pitch when the batter switches.

LL Rule 6.06 – Illegal Actions by the Batter

A batter is out for illegal action when.

(b) Stepping from one batter’s box to the other while the pitcher is in position ready to pitch.


OBR Rule 6.06 -

A batter is out for illegal action when -

(b) He steps from one box to the other while the the pitcher is in position ready to pitch.


I added emphasis to the word "he" in the OBR rule to note the only difference. OBR is sexist!


Tim.


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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 07:42pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by gxc
OBR rule 6.06 (b) is quite clear...

A batter is out for illegal action when_

(b) He steps from one batter's box to the other while the pitcher is in position ready to pitch;

What BigUmp56 said PLUS read it again where it says "in position ready to pitch"

He can only pitch if he is in Windup or Set - the positions specified in the rules. If he is not in windup or set, he is not "in position" and thus cannot be "ready to pitch", so the batter can switch.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 08:41pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PWL
Quote:
Originally posted by mcrowder
Quote:
Originally posted by PWL
In FED, they are required to pick a box they want to bat from and stay there for the duration of the at bat. The exception being, if the defense brings in another pitcher and he decides he wants switch around. Say the batter is a switcher hitter and they replace a right hander with a left hander. He cannot switch just for the sake of switching. This was the way it was explained to me.

The rule is there, but I was told to grant this exception to the batter.
Back to creating rules from thin air I see.

Please find this exact rule in your book and post it here. If you're correct, I'll mail you money.

And he CAN switch just for the sake of switching, as long as he doesn't do it while the pitcher is ready to pitch.
Okay Stinky, how much can you afford to send me. See Rule 6-1-1. Refer to Casebook 6-1-1 Situation F.

Try 7-3-1. To me, it implies there are only certain times the batter may leave the box, and when he doesn't he must keep one foot in the box. So explain to me how he can switch just for the sake of switching whenever he wants.

In 7-3-3, if the batter does it when the pitcher is ready to pitch, he is declared out.

And if it continued to happen I would consider to envoke 3-3-1g: commit any unsportsmanlike act to include, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, (please read book). I consider this to be a travesty of the game.

Now if you let your games get out of hand like that, your just one weak @$$ umpire. Argue all you want, but you got to admit I got you on 6-1-1.
Since you stated PONY, let's deal with the ruling for that case. PONY uses OBR except for local rules like minimum play or max innings for F1.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 09:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PWL
Quote:
Originally posted by BretMan
"Making a travesty of the game" is a phrase gets trotted out whenever something happens in a game that just doesn't seem quite kosher.

There is only one rule that has any kind of statement about "making a travesty of the game", and it doesn't remotely apply to this situation.

"Making a travesty of the game" is not a blanket rule that we can apply to any situation that seems odd, is out of the norm or that we just plain don't like.
Please see 10-2-3g in your FED rulebook.
Don't use that rule as a "catch all" as you're donig here since this rule is SPECIFICALLY covered in the rulebook. 10-2-3g is used for weird situations like when randy johnson hits a bird with a pitch.

6.1.1 F prohibits the PITCHER from switching hands as the batter switches boxes. By making the pitcher choose which hand to throw with, this will also keep the batter in one box. The batter can switch after every pitch if he wants- as long as the pitcher's not ready to pitch.

I can't believe you're even thinking about using 7-3-1 since that's not what the rule intends. The batter is not delaying the game in any way, so if he walks right from one batters box to the other without leaving the new box when he gets there, then he's not violating the rule.

There is nothing illegal with this play. It's definitely bush, but we can't do ANYTHING about it.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 09:33pm
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Mark is correct. 10-2-3(g) gives you the right to rule on any point not specifically covered in the rules. Making a "travesty" of the game is specifically covered in 8-4-2(n)
That's the only place you'll find it mentioned. Using 10-2-3 (g) is a tool used for incredibly unique situations and for rookies who don't understand how to apply the rules.


Quote:
Originally posted by PWL

Try 7-3-1. To me, it implies there are only certain times the batter may leave the box, and when he doesn't he must keep one foot in the box. So explain to me how he can switch just for the sake of switching whenever he wants.
7-3-1 doesn't imply anything. It gives very specific instructions on when a batter may leave the box. Among those instructions are a pitcher not in contact with the rubber at least 5 feet away from it.

Hopefully all the umpires you work with give the players in your area a better job than this. You seem to be getting worse as you gain experience. Soon you'll find yourself with numerous years of experience where the same mistakes have been made every year unless you learn to take a little instruction from people that do know what they're doing.


Tim.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 10:44pm
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Hey Pete, check this out:

From BU56
"Using 10-2-3 (g) is a tool used for incredibly unique situations and for rookies who don't understand how to apply the rules."

Maybe he can use that to defend his one in million batter interference call. (Snicker, chuckle, guffaw)

Better yet, he can use it to allow a batter to throw his bat and deflect a thrown ball from the catcher.

Of course, he could only do that on a Fed field and the original batter inteference play was OBR, but why let a little thing like the right rule get in the way? ROTFLMAO
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 10:52pm
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I would have nothing to defend, Windy. I've stated over and over that there is no call to make in the original play unless there was intent on the part of the batter-runner to interfere. You've been shown definitive rulings that sustain the idea that intent is a requirement. You see intent, and I don't in the play at hand.



PWL:

You just get worse and worse and worse..............


Tim.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 15, 2006, 11:59pm
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Re: BigBrownNose56

Quote:
Originally posted by PWL


Show me in a FED rulebook where it says a batter can switch batters' boxes.

Show me where it says he can't.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 16, 2006, 12:18am
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Wait right there,

If the coach doesn't stop within reason, I would ask the coach to send for the field or tournament director. The third time it happened after my warning, I would call time and consult with the tournament director. I would ask that the coach be restricted to the dugout for refusing to take heed of my request to stop. I would ask him to place another adult at third base to coach the baserunners. If the coach gets out of line, I would eject immediately. I really don't need him there with a bad attitude.

I am there to witness a baseball game, and not these shinanigans. Its not my responsibility to control the crowd, and I can't have a coach enticing the fans to bait the poor pitcher or the fans of the losing team. I would also request that the tournament director talk to the losing coach and a parent during the game. With this suppport, I would write a letter to the commish detailing the events that took place and the coach's refusal to grant my request. Without his support, I would probably just change clothes and go HOME and forget about it.

Just MOHO.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 16, 2006, 12:32am
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Re: Wait right there,

Quote:
Originally posted by SAump
If the coach doesn't stop within reason, I would ask the coach to send for the field or tournament director. The third time it happened after my warning, I would call time and consult with the tournament director. I would ask that the coach be restricted to the dugout for refusing to take heed of my request to stop. I would ask him to place another adult at third base to coach the baserunners. If the coach gets out of line, I would eject immediately. I really don't need him there with a bad attitude.

I am there to witness a baseball game, and not these shinanigans. Its not my responsibility to control the crowd, and I can't have a coach enticing the fans to bait the poor pitcher or the fans of the losing team. I would also request that the tournament director talk to the losing coach and a parent during the game. With this suppport, I would write a letter to the commish detailing the events that took place and the coach's refusal to grant my request. Without his support, I would probably just change clothes and go HOME and forget about it.

Just MOHO.

Please let me know what "shenanigans" this coach is doing? The batter just switches boxes- it's his own preference and he's well within the rules to do so. Batter takes a pitch, and instead of setting up for the next pitch in his own box, he sets up in the other box. THIS IS LEGAL. This would be totally OOO to order a coach to stop this, or blame him for that matter.

The only time the batter would be penalized would be if the pitcher is ready to pitch- meaning he has assumed either the windup or set positions. If the batter switches after this, he's called out as per the rules.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 16, 2006, 01:03am
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You don't know

Did I not have a plate conference with the weasel before the game? I suppose you leave out the part about the spirit of fair play (sportsmanship) and safety and equipment. If a coach cannot understand or grant me any of my THREE verbal requests, which by "switch" count is well within REASON, then he will not be around to see the ballgame. Count the pitches, or was that switches as WRITTEN; 4 pitches to each batter, each inning, until we add up to 10 run rule. Looks like shenanigans to me. Get a life COACH, its just a GAME.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 16, 2006, 04:00am
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Re: Re: BigBrownNose56

Quote:
Originally posted by largeone59
Quote:
Originally posted by PWL


Show me in a FED rulebook where it says a batter can switch batters' boxes.

Show me where it says he can't.
I know he was talking about Pony rules but in Fed, 7-3-3 says pretty much the same thing as OBR. He can't switch when the pitcher is ready to pitch. I usually despise Fed rules, but this one seems to be the same as the others.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 16, 2006, 09:16am
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Re: BigBrownNose56

Quote:
Originally posted by PWL

Show me in a FED rulebook where it says a batter can switch batters' boxes. It doesn't. In 7-3-1, on a called strike or ball, a batter can only take one foot out of the batters' box. Nice swing and miss on your part.
Note that 7-3-1 only applies if the batter "delays the game" -- not likely if it's just to switch boxes.

Also, the case that you cited -- 6.3.3F shows that it's legal for the batter to switch -- it's the pitcher that's restricted in the case.

Note that the OBR rule is also "more restrcitive" when there's an ambidextrous pitcher and a switch-hitter.

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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 16, 2006, 09:16am
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Quote:
Originally posted by PWL
In FED, they are required to pick a box they want to bat from and stay there for the duration of the at bat.
A lie. Not a mistake. A lie, even if you misuse the rules you quote below.

Quote:
Okay Stinky, how much can you afford to send me. See Rule 6-1-1. Refer to Casebook 6-1-1 Situation F..
Did you even read this? Read it again. Has nothing to do with a batter switching.

Quote:
Try 7-3-1. To me, it implies there are only certain times the batter may leave the box, and when he doesn't he must keep one foot in the box.
Not relevant.

Quote:
In 7-3-3, if the batter does it when the pitcher is ready to pitch, he is declared out.
Correct, but only if the pitcher is IN POSITION (meaning stretch or windup) and ready to pitch. Doesn't say the batter can't switch between every single pitch.

Quote:
And if it continued to happen I would consider to envoke 3-3-1g: commit any unsportsmanlike act to include, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, (please read book). I consider this to be a travesty of the game.
First of all, "travesty of the game" is mentioned exactly once in the rulebook, specifically referring to a player running the bases in reverse order. Too many bush league wannabe umpires use this as a crutch to make up rules.

Second, I've read the book... no where does it say anything about this act being unsportsmanlike. This is a judgement that you have decided on your own, with no basis.
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