Balk?

David Van Milligen · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 11, 2001, 11:21pm

Both happened today, FED rules.
Sit #1, RHP in set position, runner on 2nd breaks for 3rd pitcher steps toward third and throws runner out. Coaches say balk, threw to unoccupied base.

Sit #2, RHP in set possition runer on 3rd and 1st. Picher steps toward 3rd and fakes throw, runner on 1st breaks for 2nd, pitcher turns steps towarwd 1st and starts to throw, seeing runner going to 2nd he throws to 2nd in time to retire runner.

Whats your call?
I did in #1, runner out, threw to 3rd to retire runner.
In #2 balk, he steped towad 1st must throw.
Both calls went against the same team. A very good team from Hoffman Estates, IL.

blarson · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 11, 2001, 11:29pm

1 - except for purpose of making a play....no balk
2 - he should have disengaged the rubber when stepping towards first, he's now a fielder he can do throw wherever.

Bob

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 08:38am

I agree with both of you on case 1.

In case two, if the pitcher came off the rubber as part of his feint to third, then the feint to first was also legal. If the pitcher remained on the rubber, then it was a balk to feint to first. (Throwing to first after the feint to third, while on the rubber, would be legal in FED ball).

David Van Milligen · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 01:49pm

In FED I see where it explaines how to step off the pitcher's plate, " Step backward off the pitcher's plate", but nothing about disengaging the plate. I know I have read that when a pitcher feints to third, without stepping back off the plate, then turning and stepping toward and throwing to first, if the ball goes into dead ball territory runners get one base. Pitcher throw is from the plate. If that is the case then if the pitcher makes the same move, but feints to first it would be a balk. Right?

Gre144 · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 04:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by David Van Milligen
In FED I see where it explaines how to step off the pitcher's plate, " Step backward off the pitcher's plate", but nothing about disengaging the plate. I know I have read that when a pitcher feints to third, without stepping back off the plate, then turning and stepping toward and throwing to first, if the ball goes into dead ball territory runners get one base. Pitcher throw is from the plate. If that is the case then if the pitcher makes the same move, but feints to first it would be a balk. Right?

Pitcher can only fake to first if he disengages the rubber in which case he would be a fielder and the runners would be awarded two bases from the time of the throw (if the ball goes into DBT). If he feints to first while on the rubber then it is a balk.

Gre144 · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by David Van Milligen
Both happened today, FED rules.
Sit #1, RHP in set position, runner on 2nd breaks for 3rd pitcher steps toward third and throws runner out. Coaches say balk, threw to unoccupied base.

Sit #2, RHP in set possition runer on 3rd and 1st. Picher steps toward 3rd and fakes throw, runner on 1st breaks for 2nd, pitcher turns steps towarwd 1st and starts to throw, seeing runner going to 2nd he throws to 2nd in time to retire runner.

Whats your call?
I did in #1, runner out, threw to 3rd to retire runner.
In #2 balk, he steped towad 1st must throw.
Both calls went against the same team. A very good team from Hoffman Estates, IL.

Sit 1-its
ok to throw to an unoccupied base in an attempt to put out the runner(6.2.4b)In fact it could be argued that any throw to an unoccupied base is an attempt to put out a runner. Can anyone think of a situation in which you would call a balk for the pitcher stepping towards an unoccupied base? I can't imagine ever calling that a balk. How would the offense be put at a disadvantage by F1 throwing to an unoccupied base?

Sit 2- If F1 disengaged from the mound he can fake towards first. If he didn't he must throw there.

David Van Milligen · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 08:48pm

"Sit 2- If F1 disengaged from the mound he can fake towards first. If he didn't he must throw there."

I am not looking for a fight, only an explanation I can understand.
The rule book explaines how to legally step off the rubber. It does not tell you how to legally "disengage the rubber". If the RHP feints a throw to third and he is no longer in contact with the rubber, does that make him a fielder, or is he still considered the pitcher, because he has not steped off the back of the rubber with his pivot foot. If it makes him a fielder then most throws attempting to pick off a runner at third would come after he disengaged the rubber, so if they went into dead ball territory runners would get two bases. I do not think they can have it both ways.

Patrick Szalapski · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 10:12pm

If, in the act of a legal throw or feint, the pivot foot naturally comes off the rubber, the pitcher has legally disengaged. Thus any throw into DBT after this would indeed result in a two-base award.

(The only exception is on a jump turn, in which the pitcher jumps up, turns, and lands on or near the rubber. For this act, he is considered to still be on the rubber. This fact, though, is irrelevant to the current situation.)

P-Sz