I give up. I may come back come baseball season, but for now, I give up.

Several topics recently have had initial posts that were at least interesting enough for me to begin reading them. Then, maybe 3-5 posts actually related to the initial subject. Then, invariably, someone (often the same person) either has to bother to post that in his opinion the topic he's replying to is not worthy of a reply. Someone else has to then throw in an insult. Then the invariable attacks on grammar, spelling, and one's parenthood or lack thereof.

This is stupid. There is no better word for it. I feel like I've walked into the chat rooms of a bunch of 11 year olds on AOL in the early 90s.

GROW UP.

For me - this place no longer holds any interest. It used to be a great place to learn, discuss plays, and argue the finer points of the rules.

Now - it's WORSE than Esleeze or McGripes. I'm out.

What exactly should be done?
 

Are you referring to the "secret signals" thread? I believe that TAC stated that this same thing has been discussed 937 times here and elsewhere. To recap: Secret signals are stupid. They will soon be discovered and coaches will watch for them to know when to argue.

If you are talking about the overzealous father, a few others have pointed out that it has very little (actually nothing at all) with umpiring. If it is just an excerpt from 'Life's Little Lessons', then I suggest you pick up that book. The story, while sad, is old and pointless. I think someone else is going to post a story about a Dad who allows his child to drink and gamble and another will have a tale about allowing your children to use drugs. Both have very similar conclusions and NOTHING to do with baseball or umpiring.

As far as the grammar, spelling and writing style goes, we can only take someone on their written word. Mistakes happen and a few people came apart at the seams about one partcular writer. Their mistakes don't count and they never seem to admit them. When their hypocrisy was called to their attention, the topic disintegrated. I'm sorry to inform you that while umpires are supposed to have thick skin and communicate better, some have not summited that mount yet. Criticism and the ability to argue well are elements of officiating. When all else is lost, remember the old adage - sticks and stones...

[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Dec 1st, 2005 at 05:31 PM]

It is so ironic to me that you are the one who makes this post. I rarely post. I mostly lurk and just try to learn. After generating a thread a couple months ago, two names remain in my head--one of them being yours. It was after that that I rediscovered Eteamz. I couldn't have been happier to find one of the most constant contributors there. (He always signs with his first name.) I had wondered where he had gone, having read much of his writing about 7 years ago on McGriff's before the degeneration of that site. I had wondered why he didn't contribute to this site. I'm sure your post is not personal, nevertheless, I think it is an insult to him.

lapopez,

I think Manny stays over there because he rules the roost on that site. Here, he would just be another voice in the crowd.

Steve,

I'm pretty sure the person Lapopez is referring to is Bob Pariseau.

Manny Aponte has admitted openly that he's only been an umpire for 5 years now. You will see Manny post quite a bit on the Yahoo LL group forum as well. I've never read a post by Manny on any sites other than eteamz or the LL board.

Tim.

Re: What exactly should be done?
 

I'm very new here. However, I find it ironic that you post such a reply to this. From what I've seen you are a big part of the problems to which he is referring. When someone, who you obviously don't care for, posts on any subject you light into him. When he replies, you begin to mention how ridiculous the idea could be, how this person has no right to comment...I've seen several posts that started out with something to educate the massses and offer an educated discussion turn into a name calling play ground brawl between you and whomever.

I also find it to be rather pretentious of you assume you know of which threads he speaks. Just because you find a thread pointless, doesn't mean everyone does. He may very well be talking about the OBS/INT thread that has turned sour. Or a multitude of others that have you and Carl, or you and ??? going at each other.

I dont' pretend to know you, or your ability. However, from what I've seen since I've been here, you are being extremely hypocritical to make these statements. I have seen several posts by you that are just as much you not admitting you are wrong as what you are pointing out about others.

I may not have your expierence, or rules knowledge, but I don't pretend that my opinion is the only correct one. Thick skinned? I don't think so. Thick skin allows things to roll off, leaving you unaltered by their presence. You seem to be very thin skinned because you HAVE to offer your opinion, even on threads to which you have nothing to add, and you cannot let comments go.

Talk about "grow up?" Drop it already. If your comments get a rise from someone, they respond, and on and on. Be the man, let it go. The world won't end if you don't get the last word in.

You now can have the last word - I'm finished with my addition to this thread.

I believe you are right, Tim. Also, I apologize for not capitalizing Lapopez's name in my last post. It was an oversight.

Manny seems very knowledgable for someone with only 5 years experience.

ManInBlue,
Did he refer to recently closed threads? How many of those were there or was I just being presumptuous?

I'm not certain what your point is, since you are doing the same thing that I do - voicing your opinion. On an umpiring forum, what good does it do to just agree with the first response to a question? If the facts are wrong or I find a problem with the logic of the dialogue, I most certainly will respond. Why is that a puzzle to you?

If you are referring to my verbal sparring with Carl, I suggest you learn the history before engaging your fingertips again. If you are referring to anyone else, be more specific.

Darien is not suggesting that there is anything wrong with disgreements or voicing one's opinions. He is refering to the way you go about it. The same thing everyone says about the way you express yourself. Let me say it again (I know I am being redundant), you talk to others in a condescending, "I'm superior to you" manner.

It's not that you argue the facts, it's the attitude you bring to every argument.

He also doesn't need to be specific, because you talk down to everybody equally. Anyone who dares differ with you gets insulted and ridiculed. You insult their writing ability, or the level of baseball they work, or whatever area in which you feel you have superiority. Just like your including a "when I was in umpiring school" reference, as if going to pro school makes you a good umpire. Like I have said before, I know some pro school grads who absolutely suck at umpiring, so that is not necessarily an indicator of umpiring skill.

When you say things such as "I'm not certain what your point is", that is an example of being condescending. It seems to me that his point was crystal clear. He sees what everyone else sees.

Like I've said, if you feel inferior then that is a matter of your self esteem and not my problem. If my writing style makes you uncomfortable why do you respond to my every post?

Umpire school, business owner, many years umpiring, retired military...those are all supportive identifiers. Like Carl saying that he has taught in multiple states, written books or worked in the SWC, they are employed to give creedence to the stated opinion. It is troubling that others' success is disruptive to your psyche.

When I say that I'm not certain what your point is...that is sarcastic, because he is doing the very same thing. Stating an opinion contrary to what someone else feels is exaactly what he did. Stating that I don't understand is not condescending it is the truth - it makes no sense.

I find it humorous that Carl, BU56 and Garth have taken to name calling, yet you find what I write to be offensive. By the way, I'm not referring to them calling ME names, that would be too easy. Recent posts to others have contained their vitriol.

ManInBlue made a basic mistake; he failed to read what was written. The original post dealt with recently closed threads. I mentioned both of those and he attempted to belittle me by saying I was presumptuous. I say that I was a careful reader. I pointed out a fact and he flitted to it like a junebug to a bug zapper. Unfortunately, the light was too strong of a pull for you as well.

Since this thread had nothing to do with baseball or umpiring, I suggest that you look into getting ready for next season through more pertinent means. It'll be a much better use of your time. Worrying about defending others is a sign that you have too much time on your hands.

I received an email asking me to read the thread I started and clarify my original note. After reading the responses, I can only offer this to clarify:

1) While there are only 2 actually closed threads, my comments really referred to about 80%-90% of the recent threads, even those not closed. Look at the endings of the most recent 10 threads. NINE of them degenerated into stupidity within 10 posts. We've not had a productive post in quite a while.

2) I was not singling ANYONE out - it takes two to make an argument, but I will say that there are a few people who seem to take the same unnecessarily aggressive attacking posture to nearly every thread. I think the fact that one poster felt compelled to defend himself after my non-specific post illustrates itself, does it not? But my commentary was not directed at this individual alone. It was directed toward ALL of the people involved in degenerating nearly EVERY SINGLE discussion. Evidently, at least the kettle recognizes that he is black without the teapot having to tell him so. It doesn't make the teapot any less black.

it is getting to be pretty bad.

i'll take it how it is now, rather than how it was in the summer. this board was turned into a bad matchmaker and redecorating show; picking what umpires would work best in a crew, and then talking about the redecorating of their dressing room and adding flair to their hockey helmets

It is all about self-esteem
 

I am going to have to agree with Windy on this one.

If those are upset by what people say here, that is really ultimately your personal issue. I know what I have done in my officiating life I am very happy with and confident in. Even though Windy and have gone round and round over the years, there is not anything he has done that makes me uncomfortable. I work a lot of baseball games in the spring, but being a baseball umpire is not what I am. I work baseball to pass the time. When Windy or anyone else on this web site goes on and on about what they have done in their career, I never worry about what they say. Do we have many umpire/officials here that think they are above everyone else? I would think so. I just wonder why people worry about that. If you are doing what you are supposed to do, there is not a person here or anywhere that is going to hold you back.

In my area there are real feuds all over the place with organizations and individuals. The people that deserve the opportunities to advance or to work big games still work big games and still go far as they would if the feud was not existent. You could just look at our State Finals selections. Of course all the off-field stuff is interesting, but the people that achieve are always going to achieve.

Peace

Might he be the same Manny A who posts here?

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/17983

Windy, I promise this is the last time I respond to you. The next time you say ignorant things about me, the lack of a response will represent my disdain of you.

Your writing style is pretty much non-existent, so that isn't in question. It is your attitude which is in question. It's bad. Period.

I have never, in any way, felt inferior to you, so get that silly idea out of your pointy little head.

Okay, sarcastic instead of condescending. Much better!
I guarantee you wouldn't talk to me in person the way you do on the internet.

Goodbye, and good luck. May you have success in the upcoming season.

Maybe herein lies the problem: anonymity. It's like having road rage and flipping someone off. The person feels "safe" in their home behind their computer screen as a driver does in his car. It's amazing how the nicest people in the world can have the worst road rage. It's probably the same on discussion forums. I personally have a problem of holding grudges, and I won't forget the one who loves to use the metaphors.

Proudly,
Paul Lopez
Chicago, IL

As I've said before, you would be wrong to think that.
You throw insults at many here, myself included. Your skin is too thin to accept reciprocity. You live in a glass house and I would have no problem saying anything to you. The implied threat is cowardly.

Cowardly perhaps, but would like like to know something that is much more cowardly?

Post under a fake name! Using multiple aliases!!

If you are implying that I do that, you should think very carefully before you cross a line that gets you banned from this site.

force majeur-
"...you will not use The Official Forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defammatory, inaccuarte, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy or otherwise violative of any law."

It would appear that you have knowingly posted inaccurate information in an attempt to defame. That seems to be a terrific example of stupidity and cowardice.

WWTB - From the response that the original poster has made, it would seem that it was not I that misread the post. It was NOT about closed threads.

As for the history between you and Carl, that is irrelevent. My comment was "from what I've seen." Nothing more. The history involved does not apply.

Presumptuous, yes. You took a generic post and assumed it was meant for you. Where as I saw someone griping about the "good" threads going down the toilet with name calling, and condescending attitudes. I think the song says, "You're so vain, you probably thing this song is about you..."

I do not feel inferior to you. But from the other replies on this thread, it appears that I have not taken a personal offense to your methods. It seems more that several dislike your condescending manner. Take or leave it, that's just you.

I saw no mightier than thou attitude in your reply to me. However, the strong defense told me that the comments may have struck a nerve.

I look forward to debates with you that actually pertain to baseball. If you can debate from experience and rules knowledge, I think there could be some room for education.

I think this thread about pointless threads has gotten pointless.

Darien

If you would like to discuss umpiring, make a baseball related query.

My reading skills are quite sufficient, thank you. The original post was exactly about recently closed threads. I did not feel that it was about me, in fact, I specifically mentioned that others have chosen the lower road. I even alluded to the fact that they weren't calling me names, but because of their behavior those threads were locked.

Because I usually (sheepish grin) take a moment or two before responding and use some uncommon words, some take my views as condescending. To use a baseball analogy again, "If I can throw a 98 mile an hour fastball, it is not my concern if you can't hit it. I am not going to pitch underhand." I realize how that sounds, but that is what a couple of people have implied. I shouldn't be arrogant about my past or present schedule/accomplishments/career. B.S.! I've worked very hard and benefited from some lucky breaks along the way. I've acknowledged that I'm far from perfect and by using a nom de net, seek no accolades for what I write. My concern is for dispelling inaccurate information, assisting others with my knowledge and sharing war stories like the rest of the class.

I find it relatively amusing that it is only the same two or three members that take an issue with my baseball related opinions. The big dogs aren't even growling and that should tell them something. Sometimes, the guys that are really out there know what they are talking about.

[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Dec 2nd, 2005 at 06:57 PM]

I just couldn't resist. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! "their behavior", oh, keep 'em coming!!!! Your behavior was saintly, oh wait, I think I see the halo!!!!

Quote:

Because I usually (sheepish grin) take a moment or two before responding and use some uncommon words, some take my views as condescending. To use a baseball analogy again, "If I can throw a 98 mile an hour fastball, it is not my concern if you can't hit it. I am not going to pitch underhand." I realize how that sounds, but that is what a couple of people have implied.

Do you really realize how that sounds. I don't think you do, because if you did, the problem would be solved. You have yet to use a word of which I did not know the definition. Your vocabulary is not farther advanced than anybody else's here, and if it is more advanced than some, you should not laud it over everyone's heads.

Like I have said before, you are probably a real nice guy, but you do come off as arrogant, and that's not real cool.

Cordially yours,

Steve

"Do you really realize how that sounds. I don't think you do, because if you did, the problem would be solved. You have yet to use a word of which I did not know the definition. Your vocabulary is not farther advanced than anybody else's here, and if it is more advanced than some, you should not laud it over everyone's heads.

Like I have said before, you are probably a real nice guy, but you do come off as arrogant, and that's not real cool.

Cordially yours,

Steve"


Actually, I understand exactly what it means and how it sounds. I never said my vocabulary base was more substantial than anyone here. I choose to utilize it, that is all. I do not lord it over anyone (laud means to praise from the Latin laudo, but you'll accuse me of doing it again), contrary to your beliefs. You should look at the pitching analogy again. Like Carl is wont to write, "It ain't bragging if you can do it." You never seem to have an issue when he talks about his endeavors, experience or varied braggadocio. I can assure you that he has many more years of doing this than I. Stop obscuring the message and relax. Most of what I write is about making the game better. Even when others tell you that I'm right, you still want to spar. Life is too short and we have more important issues to face. For example, I cannot find the damn can opener and my Heineken is getting warm by the second!

Touche on the "laud/lord" issue. Too many Christmas carols.

Carl has always sounded arrogant, but I've been reading his articles in Referee Magazine for 20 years now, so I am used to him. Plus, I know who he is.

<b>I find it humorous that Carl, BU56 and Garth have taken to name calling, yet you find what I write to be offensive</b>

1. I understand that at times I post antagonistically. However, I try not to get involved in name calling. I've gone back over some recent threads and didn't see where I call anyone a name. I did refer to a poster who I did not identify as a "town crier", but that's about it. I may have missed something and Lord knows my memory is not perfect. Please let me know where you've seen me do this. I owe anyone and everyone that I called a name a sincere apology and I'd like to make amends.

2. I never said I find anything you write offensive. Why do you make things up? I find some of it stupid, granted, but I'm not offended by stupidity...just amazed.

not refering to Garth
 

Garth,

WWTB was refering to me being offended by his writing, to which I replied that it was the way he went about expressing himself that I found offensive.

Garth, I neglected to add TAC to that list, my bad!

McGripes, Sleazeteams, rats, prick, troll, little league (small letters), Johnny One Note...I could go on but tose are just the ones that come to mind and I refuse to research what you've called others in the past.

Dismissing questions by rookies or newcomers as being little league is as arrogant as anything I've ever written. I know one guy who gave up his high school and college schedule a few years back just to work Little League. He was decent enough to be asked to work the LLWS and did not embarass himself or the game. I applaud those that find virtue in volunteering. I wouldn't want to do it, but I don't think they are idiots for not working high school or college baseball. They are just the best at that level.

I need another Heineken.

1. McGripes is what I call a web site, as is Sleazteamz. That is not calling someone a name.

2. Rats is a generic term for coaches.

3. You have me confused with someother old fart. I don't call people "pricks".

4. Troll is another generic term.

5. little league, small letters, is used as a generic term for youth baseball. I have explained that before and again, it is not calling someone a name.

6. You got me on that one. Johnny One-Note was directed at an individual. I forgot about that one. I apologize if it offended you.

By the way, I'm not offended by your exaggeration that I call people names. No need to apologize. I am disappointed in that you decided to make such an accusation without the proper research, though. If you had checked what you would have found is that most often I refer to one's actions when I use a label, not to the person.




[Edited by GarthB on Dec 2nd, 2005 at 11:39 PM]

They are all names and I never said that you call people names - read it again. By the way, **hole is a body part and a name, so quit playing semantical games. 'Rats' is not a generic term for coaches anymore than blind mice is a generic term for umpires. TAC and you disdain small field questions. That is okay, but you were once there; it is deplorable to think you can't ignore a question that may be of use to someone else. Maybe a newbie has an honest question or would like some advice. Are you too noble to allow such dialogue? You implied you were a parent; I hope you didn't ignore questions from your children because you answered them once before.

I listed several individuals who were namecalling (the term I used) but you keep acting like those other names weren't there. Martyrdom doesn't suit you. I believe that the apology may be owed to your reading teacher, however. I don't feel the need to 'research' any more; they were all accurate quips from the fingertips of those mentioned. I could pull the quotes for you, but I feel you have learned the lesson. Seeing you explain what those terms meant was punishment enough.

[Edited to include my original quote:
"I find it humorous that Carl, BU56 and Garth have taken to name calling, yet you find what I write to be offensive. By the way, I'm not referring to them calling ME names, that would be too easy. Recent posts to others have contained their vitriol."]