Okay, I'm a Cubs fan so I can take this cheap shot -

Did anyone else have a big grin when they saw the headline, "Ex-Cub player guilty of steroid use"?

Matt Lawton??? Come on, how about Rafael Palmiero, while they're at it? I have to admit, I thought Sammy was finally caught. Greg Maddux must have breathed a sigh of relief, too. I mean check out those guns! :)

lawton sucked anyways, on or off roids

Agreed, but why not "Yankee guilty of steroid use"? After all, he was traded to them.

or..........
 

ex-Pirate!!.........hehehe.......funny he never showed any of that "roid induced power" in PNC Park this year....

Stan

Steroid advertising
 

Ever notice that when a steroid thread gets started, or are mentioned in a post, that it triggers some kind of keyword search, and steroid/supplement ads appear? I have seen this phenomenon on fan sites as well, as soon as the discussion turns to 'roids, they bombard the boards with these ads.:mad:

Re: Steroid advertising
 

Thats how google's AdWords and AdSense programs work. It gives you "relevant" advertisements to what the page is talking about. We aren't talking about buying roids here, but the discussion is about them, so google sees what we are discussing and figures that advertising for them fits right in.

If you have google's free email, titled "gmail," the same thing happens in your inbox. If you open up an email from a friend about playing golf next weekend, you will see advertisements on the side of the page for golf clubs, trips, balls, courses, etc. If you open up a spam email for viagra, your ads are about lengthening and lasting for hours.

as i posted this message, the ads were for "hardcorestacks.com" and "houseofmuscle.com"

[Edited by briancurtin on Nov 4th, 2005 at 02:02 PM]

Palmeiro wasn't thrown to the wolves, Palmeiro did all the damage to himself. Palmeiro was the one who sat in front of Congress shook his finger and testified "I have never done steroids".

You don't think that little finger waving incident in front of Congress had anything to do with this do you?

I would have a little more respect for Palmeiro if he actually owned up to doing the steroids instead of continuing to deny that he add anything to do with taking steroids.

Palmeiro is getting everything he deserves!

I think Barry's funniest comment was that he never knowingly took steroids. He used a clear substance that he was told was a supplement. These guys revere their bodies more than a porn star and he thinks we'll fall for that. With the MLB policy being what it is, you can't say, "Sure, I'll take it, as long as you say it's safe." A Chris Rock line is in order, but it will surely get edited. Substitute your favorite one.

Yes, I believe that Sammy was popping steroids like tic tacs and got away with it. Barry, Jason, Rafael, Jose, Sammy are all in the same boat. They just got a new deck hand with Matt's addition.

Like I said, Greg Maddux takes off his shirt and people wonder how he does it. Babe Ruth looked like the Sta-Puft marshmallow man and got it done. Randy Johnson looks like a sideshow act. Chicks dig the long ball and no-nos, but 'roids still grab the money!

Honestly I do not think Barry and others care if you believe them or not. Until you can prove something, I think all of it is pure speculation. If I take steroids one time, that is not going to make me a good player all by itself. Look at all the players that have been found out to have taken steroids. Do you hear any Hall of Famers out their other than Palmerio? Lawton is a scrub that most people would not know who they were if they slapped their Mama. If you feel it took it that is great for discussion sake, but I do not see how steroids makes you a better player. You still have to hit the ball. You still have to make good contact with the ball. You still have to run and catch the ball. You can come up with all the numbers but I see a bunch of players getting caught that are not even considered good baseball players. And many of these players are not even power hitters.

Peace

Of course it is speculative, Barry Bonds is a mute when it comes to admitting he did it. Jeff, do you think Mark McGwire took steroids? Do you think Frank Thomas, Pudge Rodriguez, Luis Gonzalez, Sammy Sosa or Ken Caminiti did? How about Mr. October, Reggie Jackson or Dave Winfield? All have been suspected of using some sort of illegal enhancement in order to be more competitive and all are power hitters. All were plagued with injuries after tremendous mucle growth. During the 70's and early 80's, enough ball players have admitted that they took "greenies" (amphetamines) to gain an advantage that it became accepted. More and more players are being caught or admitting that they did the same with steroids.

The game has become more competitive and the money too great for athletes to be average. Once a guy has HOF after his name, he will not admit that he took illegal substances in order to get there. Steroids are not just for building huge mass. They can take an average player with a good eye and make him a superstar. Those fast twitch muscles, coupled with increased mass make .160 hitters become .300 hitters. Hitting the ball hard enough to get through a gap is just as important as hitting it over the fence. That is how steroids make you a better baseball player.

I do not know who took steroids and I do not care who took steroids. Maybe all the players that took greenies we should put an asterisk on their stats too? Or why not put an asterisk on the players that drunk themselves into a drunken stopper every night and could hardly play the game the following day. Did it ever occur that players actually take care of themselves these days and this is the reason Mickey Mantle did not hit more home runs. What about Babe Ruth? Would Babe Ruth survive today being a drunk and womanizer if he had to live up to today’s standards of fitness and social scrutiny? Remember the media did not ever report the personal lives of public figures, but now if someone talks out of turn every word is repeated 100 times in a few minutes.

You might be right, but if you listen to the old timers talk about their sport (NFL, MLB or NBA). These guys did things that today would be considered lazy or not hard working. So of course you can equate numbers to steroids, but in the 50s players were not taking very good care of themselves either. Stadiums are smaller. There was a time when hitting a home run out of Busch Stadium was much harder. The Astrodome was used by the Astros. Now both stadiums produced records in home runs with much shorter fences and not very skilled pitching. You are right. It is all about the drugs.

Peace

Jeff,
Your last paragraph was non-sensical. You asked how steroids make a difference and I told you the physical changes that occur. You take an average player put him on performance enhancement drugs and make him better. That is why they are illegal for all of us and not just ball players. It is also against the law for the local gym rat to imbibe and unethical for a millionire baby to flaunt it.

We are not comparing what happened fifty years ago with what is happening now. I offered that perfomance enhancing drugs have been around the game for a long time -amphetamines, numbing cortizone, etc. Steroids have only reared their ugly head in the past thirty or so years. They extended careers, cut short lives and tarnish records. I care who is taking those drugs because I care about the records. Hank Aaron battled racism, injuries and an unbelievable career to set the single best record in sports. It should not fall to a guy without the cajones to admit that he took an illegal substance to gain power. Yes, he posseses the hand eye coordination of a gunslinger. He also cheated and should pay the price. Some people argue that Jason Giambi came back clean and had a great year. That's true - he worked hard and still carries more muscle than he did six years ago. Those steroids built the body and he maintained the talent to keep him in a very competitive field. Where would he be without those little helpers? Not on the Yankees likely.

The media has the ability and right to scrutinize those that want to be held up as heros. We run our politicians through the wringer and lose some talented ones because of the duress. Athletes are no less accountable. They are entertainers who earn good salaries. If Kate Moss can lose endorsement deals for doing an illegal drug why shouldn't Barry Bonds?

Lastly, and I realize that I digress - did you see Joe Pa's comment about the black athlete in football? Maybe it is time to retire.

You neglected to include Dave's moniker: Mr. May.

I've been searching the 'net for photos of Barry when he was with the Pirates. When he came up, he had the same body type as his dad, Bobby: skinny as a rail. Now look at him: Mr. Universe. Too bad the media won't do more "before and after" comparisons of some of these clowns - no need to pick on Barry, you can find dozens of 'em.

Steve Martin wrote a hilarious op-ed piece, published in the NY Times some time ago, in which he imagined performance-enhancing drugs permeating wider society.

I can see the argument that says, who cares what athletes do to themselves in the name of making sports more entertaining? But I would have thought, in the aftermath of the latest natural disasters, that this country might have had enough of this "every man for himself" mentality.

For MLB, wouldn't it be great to see the players' union get out in front and say, drugs are bad for baseball and bad for players, and we won't tolerate their use. I know, I know, I'm dreaming.... but it's a great dream...

I've been searching the 'net for photos of Barry when he was with the Pirates. When he came up, he had the same body type as his dad, Bobby: skinny as a rail. Now look at him: <font color = red>Mr. Universe</font>. [/B][/QUOTE]More like <b>Mr. Potatohead</b>,

All I am saying Windy is that many of the players that have been caught using and suspended for steroids are not setting records or ripping up the Majors. That is fine that you feel this is such a big issue, but it is not for everyone out there. There are a lot of reasons records have fallen and many of the players in that were setting records did not do so in the type of ball fields or with the type of pitching staffs as there is today. Teams today are lucky if they have one really good pitcher. There are many players in all positions that would not play if there were only around 20 teams as there was in the 50s and 60s.

Are you a scientist? How do you know what steroids did to Giambi? If performance enhancing drugs are illegal, why was it OK in the fifties to take a drug that helps you recover and help you through a grind of more than 100 games?

I personally do not know of any endorsements that Bonds has.

Yes and I do not have a problem his comments. When are white people going to stop telling Black people in this country what should offend them? I am just curious. ;)

Peace

Pictures are going to prove steroid use? I guess if someone showed a picture of me at 18 years old and a picture of me now in my early 30s, I guess I would be on steroids. Considering that I have gained over 30 pounds since I graduated from HS that must make me a steroid user. Why not get pictures of Michael Jordan over the same ages or Charles Barkley. I must be missing something because most people put on some weight as they age. I do not see many people that stay the exact same weight at 45 as they did when they were 18.

My point of view is not that is should be every man for himself. My point of view is based on proving something. Just saying someone gained weight over 20+ years of their life is not sufficient to prove steroid use. I guess it is for you, but it is not for me.

I guess we all have a right to our own dreams. :rolleyes:

Peace

Pictures are going to prove steroid use? I guess if someone showed a picture of me at 18 years old and a picture of me now in my early 30s, I guess I would be on steroids. Considering that I have gained over 30 pounds since I graduated from HS that must make me a steroid user.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Were you linked directly to a convicted steroid manufacturer who said you were supplied with his performance enhancers?
Was your personal trainer just convicted of distributing THG and steroids to his clients?
Are you a professional athlete that gained forty pounds of muscle when others are not?
Do you have any nagging injures associated with abnormally fast muscle growth?

If you can answer "yes" to any of these questions then you are correct. All is forgiven.

************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************************

Why not get pictures of Michael Jordan over the same ages or Charles Barkley. I must be missing something because most people put on some weight as they age. I do not see many people that stay the exact same weight at 45 as they did when they were 18.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, you are missing something - putting on weight and packing on muscle mass are not the same thing. Most professional baseball players are done when reach thirty eight years of age. Their bodies can't keep up with the pace - look at Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell. Human physiology doesn't normally permit excessive muscle growth in this age group.

Unadulterated photographs convict people of crimes and serve as legacies - they are very powerful tools. Grab a Bonds rookie card and last year's. Check the size of his head - see any similarities between his and the 'roid boys of the WWF.

Lastly, I didn't tell anyone that they should be offended by Coach Joe Paterno's comments. I just found them frighteningly out of step with contemporary collegiate athletics. Your skin color has nothing to do with how fast you are. Implying that it does is a slap in the face to all of the hours of training that athletes go through. If you thought they were okay, then I know why people like him can say what they want. I am not an African American and I was horrified by his lack of discretion.

I guess that is the scientific method at work. I hope you get a lot of funding for your research.

You are right. The color of your skin does not have anything to do with an attribute. But for some reason most of the fastest players in the NFL are Black. It also might be noted that Paterno was not commenting on the speed of players, he was talking about their contribution to the game and a conference.

Funny, I have not found any African-Americans that publicly feel the way you do. Guys love to mock Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, but no one is coming out and saying that Paterno should be fired or retire but a bunch of people that the comments were not directed at. As a matter of fact I have heard many Black writers and commentators saying they were not offended at all by what he said or did not see where what he said was not true.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Nov 6th, 2005 at 12:11 AM]

Okay, that was the best line I've ever seen written on this board. Thank you J.Rutledge and SanDiegoSteve for pointing it out.

This was the second best:

"All I am saying Windy is that many of the players that have been caught using and suspended for steroids are not setting records or ripping up the Majors"

Hmmm...Barry? Barry? Barry? Who holds the MLB for homeruns in a season? Who admitted taking a banned substance?

Matt Lawton was the individual this thread was about. How many All-Stars has he won? How many homerun titles does he have? How many teams has he played on and why? If steroids were such a great player, why does no one even know who this guy is? I thought steroids were supposed to make you such a good player or an average player great. I did not even know Lawton played on the Cubs. How are those drugs working out for him? He was cut from the Yankees for God sake.

Peace

Here's a before picture:

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/bondstp.jpg

Here's an after:

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesplayers/bonds.jpg

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Nov 6th, 2005 at 02:40 AM]

Steve - We finally agree on something. See, I knew it would happen. Maybe Barry spent all those hours working out instead of talking to the press or the good Lord decided to allow him a second puberty. Yeah, that's the ticket. ;)

Wow, it is finally proven!!!! We have solved the mystery!!!

Forget drug testing, lets compare pictures from 15 years ago and that will prove everything.

:rolleyes:

Peace

The interesting thing about the roid era is that everyone suspected of being on them has been riddled by injuries in the past few years (Sosa, Bonds, Nomar, Giambi). Even McGuire in his final days. Personally I hope none of them make it into the Hall, although I will cut Bonds a little slack. What this guy has done in the twilight of his career is incredible. Throw out the power stats and look at his average, his OBP, and the fact that two years ago he swung and missed at only 8 pitches before the all star break. Was that a different kind of juice he was taking that helped his hand/eye coordination?

I bet if they slapped any of our mothers, they'd know who we were though. :)

It looks like the roids also helped him come to his senses about his pant length also. See, roids are not all bad.

Mea Culpa
 

I posted the pictures for entertainment value, not as scientific proof of anything. Whether or not any of these guys take steroids is no skin off my butt. I'm not the one with the shrunken nuts :D.

There are many links however, that show Barry's ties to Balco, and Conte, and show evidence of his steroid use. All circumstantial, of course. But let's not be naive to the point of denial.

Drugs have been a part of baseball since, well, forever. Alcohol abuse, the amphetamine epidemic of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Now it's steroids. Some players are looking for that extra edge, that advantage that makes them just a little better than the next guy. I think it's sad that it has gotten so out of hand that players feel it's necessary to cheat in order to get ahead.

In my day, the only performance enhancing substance we had was coffee and atomic balm in the jock.

BP

Hmmm...I've bulked up over the years as well...are Twinkies and Mountain Dew considered "enhancing drugs"?

JJ

SDSteve - how do you get all those cool animated graphics on your posts?

Well, I'm not SDS but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night....

Hit "QUOTE" at the bottom of a post that has a graphic in it. That will show you how the writer of that post inserted that graphic.

http://d21c.com/AnnesPlace/Bears/PoohRef.gif

If you hit "QUOTE" at the bottom of this post, you'll see how I inserted that.

Since you've taught me how to do it, I thought I'd see if this one was too late for Haloween.

http://www.sjuabaseball.org/buffy.jpg


Tim.

Hey JJ, to a 13 years old Twinkies and Mountain Dew are performance enhancers! Did you ever try waking one up for school? Give him a couple bottles of Mountain Dew and he'll ride his bike to St. Louis. Twinkies are considered a food group to his peers!