Select baseball

[David B]

Peter O had a great article on the paid site; however, his area is way behind the times I regret to report.

We have had 9-10 select for the past two seasons, then last year I heard about some coach pitch 8 yr old, and then this summer - drum roll -

A travel team for 7yr olds.

Yes, my son was asked to play for a team - of course we declined since my son just wants to play for fun. (he has more fun playing in the neighborhood thank goodness)

I am happy to report the decision was a good one since I recently heard the reports from the parents of several boys who did play and it was coach driven and many boys did not get to play hardly at all - imagine that.

For the two months they played the parents had to shell out nearly $500 to play in addition to their own fees for staying out of town for the weekend tourneys.

And as Peter reports - the level of ball in the select leagues is getting worse every year. I only hope it starts to phase out in the next few years.

Thanks
David

[piaa_ump]

Initially I was excited when "travel" or select ball came in my area, especially in the fall. I was able to pick up a whole season of games with some fairly good competition....I was doing youth ball (13-14-15-16 year olds), playing on 90' bases with OBR rules. The players came from the best teams in the area and were a notch above the summer league COLT/PONY variety. The pay was about HS freshman/JV level and I was guaranteed a double header each weekend..... And I enjoyed it.

Now to the present day.....the large amount of "travel" teams (I cant call them select, since the talent is so washed out) has made this a mess. A low level of play, a less than dedicated player base and a bargain mentality has entered the mix.

I get calls from travel coaches wanting to book umpires for double headers but wont be able to confirm the game until game day since it's no lock that they will be able to field 9 players.....plus they now want to pay less for umpires.....The age groups are getting younger and they are still trying to play the big field because the USSP-51xp (enter your choice of alpha numeric code here) world series qualifer is played on 90' bases.... (nothing sillier than watching a small 12 year old F5 try and make the throw to first........)

Its definately getting worse...I dont know if its phasing out or not, but I know I have phased out......I only do the original team who booked me years ago....They set the schedule in advance, want certified, insured and uniformed umpires and pay a decent fee, and try to cancel 24 hrs prior to game time.......

[Edited by piaa_ump on Aug 17th, 2005 at 11:25 AM]

[bbump82]

I will have to agree with the general concensus. My personal experiences with these types of teams were both good and bad. I have family members that have played on a great team until they got to HS. His younger brother started on a team that has never been that good. I have also umpired for a local team on a regular basis, and have watched that team destroy itself and finally disband. It all boils down to the fact that it is not the money that makes the team better. More money means more and/or better uniforms, matching embroidered gear bags, ... The teams are still coached by Dads that think their kids are too good to play in the local leagues, and that they are going to be the next Hank Aaron or Randy Johnson. All of the money spent on getting the best gear, camps, personel trainers, will not make the next super star. Guys like Aaron, Mays, Rose, were given a gift, and learned how to use it.

My son played for one of these types of teams about six years ago, for one season. The coaches were all really good friends until the questions and accusations of fianancial mismanagement started to pop up. Leaving that team was the best thing we ever did!

[akabaseball]

I live and coach in Alaska, our geography dictates travel to compete. I am not talking long drives, we must fly. Expenses are incredible.

Getting the games is valuable to any player, however from my perspective travel with kids under eleven years old is overkill. The revolving door of parent/coach is a problem, but good luck trying to find a dedicated coach who hasn’t a blood interest these days. Sending kids to camps and or select squads has its draw backs too. After a parent spends large to supper size their kid’s skill level, good luck trying to get that kid to advance a runner for his home team.

Supper Star mentality follows a large percentage of select players back home. As a H/S coach, it is not a coincidence batting averages have gone down by many who have to prove what they learned at a place that is for the better players.

Baseball 101 beats the best pitchers, not huge hacks and stories about pastures that are greener. This will never change. Team loyalty to your team colors is the intangible. Not the kid with a large head.

[ChrisSportsFan]

It will be interesting to see how advanced (or not) these kids are down the road. Before the days of "select ball", kids played hours and hours of baseball, or some form of it with their neighborhood rules, for hours on end everyday. Many of these 11 year olds will change sports (lacross is taking alot of baseball players away), lose interest, get a job, find a girlfriend, or be distracted in some form or fashion and their baseball interest with fade away.

My son is an average height 12 year old. There are 12 year old kids on his various sport teams that are already 6 foot tall or getting close to it. Alot of these kids have already passed their Dad's height. My Son get discouraged because of their size and I've had to explain that time will be the great equalizer. I'm 6'6" tall and Mom is 5'10, I assume he will pass alot of those kids in height down the road. My point is that some of those kids on the select teams now will not develope physically to play HS and beyond ball.

[akabaseball]

No doubt Chris,

Growth to a youth who is destine to be 6'5 will sometimes create awkward periods I that kids coordination. When that boy gets on the bigger baseline and at a time when his coordination catches up with his oversized feet, he will blow-by many of the kids who up-staged him @ 12 and under.

As a 20 plus year coach, I have watched this phenomena repeat itself. Do not let Learch get discouraged even if he falls down going upstairs. My kid did not make the cut as an 11, but he grew 10 inches in that 2 year period. He had a Goatee as a 13 year old and played College baseball in San Diego. He is a plumber now, with a great arm.

[Hunter]

I think the whole travel team concept is going to burn kids out. There may be one kid out of a 100 that is willing to put in the time every day to improve his skill set and is going to approach the travel team as a way to "make it". That one kid out of a 100 actually lives in my town, and just played in the Aflac HS classic game this weekend. His dad flies him across the country all summer, he has played in tournaments since he was 12, works out 3 hours a day every day, has signed a letter with Arizona State, etc. BUT, he is the exception, not the rule.

[briancurtin]

(note: i have not read the article peter wrote because i am not a subscriber, yet)

"select" and "travel" baseball for kids under 16 is almost always a complete joke. if you have money, you can play, that is the selection part of "select" teams. i laugh when i hear about "select" and "travel" teams for 8 year olds and 11 year olds. what does one 8 year old know about baseball more than the next one? nothing. ive heard people talk about their kids needing exposure early. to who? believe it or not, 8 year olds playing baseball at the park down the street is no different than 8 year olds playing at a park with a 180 foot fence 45 minutes away while wearing half-button up t-shirts as opposed to no buttons.

yes, there are good "select" and "travel" teams out there, but for the most part my experience (be it umpiring, playing for, playing against, or watching 3 younger brothers who played for and against these teams) has been that its not worth the whole title and cost most of the time. one younger brother played in the NABF world series in jackson, missisippi a year ago and his team was legit; he is the only person to not go (and play) D1, as he is playing at a D3 school. on the other hand, another brother played in some AAU "world series" in florida and got smoked, and were only there because they could pay...they had nice jerseys though (rolls eyes).

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
My point is that some of those kids on the select teams now will not develope physically to play HS and beyond ball.

yep, they just burn them out so they can win the 14 year old county championship tournament and get their name in the paper.

when i was 12 and in the local LL there was a kid who was like 5'10" as a 12, which was pretty big. once he turned 13 he played on some "select" team and i never played against him again until we were about 16 i think. i remember being scared of this kid when i was in LL because he was so big and threw so hard, but when i faced him in 16 yr old ball, i think he threw harder when he was 12. he was ruined.

he was pretty dominant in LL but was essentially useless when the game stepped up to new levels, where you start to see standouts and kids that you know will go on. he went the opposite direction everyone thought he would go.

[TBBlue]

There is a group of parents here forming a 12-U AAU team for the fall. Most of these folks are my friends from the ballpark. They feel their little tykes are being held back by the LL participation rules, politics, etc. The manager feels he gets screwed every year...same old story. Their main goal for this team is Williamsport next summer. This group can play together everyday until next June 15, and they still won't get out of districts.

I have posted before that my son is a marginal baseball player, at best. Obviously, he hasn't been asked to play (thank God, because we would turn them down in a heartbeat). With all of the established AAU teams running newspaper ads looking for players, (an interesting "selection" process in itself), it will be interesting to see when they approach me to offer my kid a spot. I guarantee it will happen. Probably for spring ball after they get their @$$es handed to them this fall, and they lose 5 or 6 kids to attrition, but it will happen.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by TBBlue
There is a group of parents here forming a 12-U AAU team for the fall. Most of these folks are my friends from the ballpark. They feel their little tykes are being held back by the LL participation rules, politics, etc. The manager feels he gets screwed every year...same old story. Their main goal for this team is Williamsport next summer. This group can play together everyday until next June 15, and they still won't get out of districts.

I have posted before that my son is a marginal baseball player, at best. Obviously, he hasn't been asked to play (thank God, because we would turn them down in a heartbeat). With all of the established AAU teams running newspaper ads looking for players, (an interesting "selection" process in itself), it will be interesting to see when they approach me to offer my kid a spot. I guarantee it will happen. Probably for spring ball after they get their @$$es handed to them this fall, and they lose 5 or 6 kids to attrition, but it will happen.

Having "graduated" years ago, watching new parents go through "the cycle" over a few years is now an amusing pasttime of mine, and one of the reasons I remain affiliated with my local Little League on a limited basis.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by David B

And as Peter reports - the level of ball in the select leagues is getting worse every year. I only hope it starts to phase out in the next few years.

David it's like anything else when something "NEW" opens up it catches on like "wildfire" and eventually comes "back down to earth"

In the beginning, the select leagues were the best ball around. Games under the 2 hour mark and real good baseball.

However, recently I too have noticed a severe dropoff in the talent pool. Even though they are supposed to be "select" leagues the games are not that good anymore.

"other" sports are replacing baseball at least in my area. LaCross is now a "huge sport" which takes away many a talented athlete.

The select leagues have burned themselves out and also Parents are getting tired of dishing out BIG Bucks to see their kid sit the pine.

Even Legion which used to be some of the best ball around has dropped off in the last couple of years.

Pete Booth

[His High Holiness]

All;

It appears that I struck a chord with this article. We have a discussion here about this subject, and another discussion on a private board, and I have received emails.

I was wrong. This is a nationwide phenomenon. Several posters have told me over the years that the general insanity in baseball that I describe is unique to the DC area. Since $2500 travel baseball is insane, I assumed that it was unique to high income areas like Northern VA.

Boy, was I wrong. On the private posting site, a poster described a select league where kids parents pay $375 per double header to have their kids play. No refunds for rainouts. Someone else mentioned a $3500 charge to join a travel league. Legion coaches were paid $8000 for a 9 week season. How many umpires are making $8000 in 9 weeks. OK, MLB umpires do but not even AAA umpires get that kind of dough.

There are a lot of articles here that you all could write and Carl would pay you. Our local team (Mclean VA,) just won the LL Girls Softball World Series. McLean is an ultrarich suburb of DC where the rich and powerful politicians live. Rumor has it that their LL World Series victory was a quarter million dollar multiyear project that bent all the rules.

Sounds like an article for the Washington Post.

Peter

[Edited by His High Holiness on Aug 19th, 2005 at 03:24 PM]

[andrewm]

I don't believe you can lump all "select" teams into one category. Sure you're going to have the over the top, win at all co$t$ team. And there are plenty of them. But there are plenty that have been created to offer just a little bit more than rec ball.

My son started playing in the local rec league at 6 (t-ball). Within a few years, it was apparent that he was one of the better players in his age group in the league. Once he got to 9-10, the gap between the good players and bad players was getting bigger. He got tired of busting his arse when half the team (players and parents) could care less. We wanted just a little bit more.

Last fall we formed a team of players who go to school together and are friends. The parents are also good friends. Our #1 goal was to have fun as a team. We knew we weren't the most talented team, but we had good kids and good parents. We had a small budget and played in a local select league. We also played in a few local tournaments and went on one out of town road trip.

We've turned down more talented players just because of their over the top parents. Hopefully this team can stay together until high school. That way, the few from this team that play high school ball will already have some chemistry.