Wow. I never thought I'd see the day that such an obvoius judgement call was overturned. Granted, I do believe the crew of Dana Demuth and Laz Diaz got the call right, but I can already here the cries of all you umpires out there screaming "group hug!" So I have to ask everyone: What is your initial impression of what happened on that night? (If you did not see it, check Yahoo Sports).

Here is what happned:

Julio Lugo hit a grounder to first and Schilling went to cover the bag. First base umpire Dana DeMuth ruled that Schilling beat the runner, but he thought the pitcher missed the bag and called Lugo safe, allowing a run to score.

``I assumed the whole foot missed the bag, so I banged him safe,'' DeMuth said. ``I wanted to make the right call.''

Schilling argued, prompting DeMuth to summon home plate umpire Laz Diaz. Diaz said he saw Schilling touch the base and the call was overturned, ending the inning and taking the run off the board.

The Red Sox left the field quickly, but Devil Rays manager Lou Piniella was enraged and stormed out of the dugout.

``Dana DeMuth, he's 6 feet away from the bag. And then you've got a home plate umpire who's 90 feet away and sees it better than the guy at first base. It's hard for me to believe,'' Piniella said. ``You've got one base to call. Make the call and stand by it.''

Piniella was quickly ejected in the ensuing argument and had to be held back by first base coach Billy Hatcher.

``Whoooo!'' Hatcher said. ``I've got to get back in the weight room. That's a strong man.''

Well, I saw the replay over and over, and depending on which angle you see the play at, the outcome is different. The only person that had a good look at the play was U1 (DeMuth). No one, and I mean NO ONE had a beter look at the play on that field last night.

This is one of those plays that the calling official earns his money - it's a live or die play! This is not the kind of play that can be discussed because no other umpire was in position to see the play. Even though Diaz was chasing the play, he did not have the a better view.

So instead of letting the call be what it is, the umpires get together and the call gets reversed. Now Pinella comes out and all I could say was that he was gone the minute he came out on the field. There was no way he was going to accept this bull$hit reversal of a call.

Look, if Diaz was even close to where DeMuth was, I could see having a meeting. But as I said before, this is that rare call that you have to live or die with. It's the kind of call that you have to have the balls to make and once you do you have to stand with it. In my opinion, DeMuth needs to check his crotch to see if he is a gelding or not. "I just wanted to get the call right" is just a bull$hit way of saying "I made a call but I don't want to piss anyone off so I want to have everyone's opinion so I don't take the heat myself."!

I don't agree with making a call then meeting then making another call. Make the damn call right to begin with!

And how many MLB games have you done this year OZ?

I didn't see the play live, but as soon as I saw the play with no commentary I knew the crew had gotten together. Laz Diaz absolutely had a better view of Schilling's foot on the bag. For some reaosn, Dana was in foul territory and could not have possibly seen whether Schilling's foot got the side of the bag. Diaz, following the play down the line, should have and did see it with no problem. There was nothing "rare" about a ground ball- FWIW I've had this situation a couple of times this year where a coach has asked either my partner or I to ask for help on a foot on the bag.

If you want to make a stink about something, debate whether Schilling actually beat Lugo to the bag. Dana and Laz got it right here.

Great call. The only one with a good angle was Diaz running up the line. The discussed it. They got it right. So what if Pinniela went crazy.

Speaking of DeMuth's crew, where has Jim Joyce been. He has been out for about 2-3 weeks now?

Went crazy?

Wow, I hope Diaz was not running up the line. With a runner scoring I would expect him to be at home, 1st base line extended to watch the touch of home and to assist on the foot at first.

It was the right call as Schilling did get the bag ahead of the runner. DeMuth had to of figured that he did not have the best angle on whether or not Schilling's foot hit the side of he bag so he got help. Plus with as bang bang as it was he may of felt he did not get the best look and probably felt more comfortable asking for the help to make sure it was called right.

Anyone know why DeMuth was in foul ground for this call? If he'd been in the more normal position for the call, he would likely have seen Schilling's foot better.

No clue why Dana was in foul ground....I had that exact same question.

Jim Joyce has been hurt for a few weeks....he sprained his knee covering the plate from first in St. Louis and has been out ever since.

Blue Jays and Devil Rays Saturday. John Hirshbeck also went in foul ground on a similar play. He called a Devil Ray player safe who was clearly out on the tag. I wonder why they didn't ask for help from the HP umpire?

Well, as far as I could see, DeMuth must have felt pressure from the defense and on a 4 man crew, you can go into foul ground without a problem.

From the replays, I don't agree that Diaz was in a better position.

No, I like most of you, do not do MLB games. But what they do up there there affects the rest of us down at our levels. Since this whole meeting crap started, we amateurs are constantly asked to "check with your partner" on every whacker.

I think that if you all like meeting to get the call right so much, then why not do like NFL officials and meet at every play? Why not get the video cameras out for FED and NCAA so we can waste time looking at replays to make a decision. And finally, why don't we just put a time clock in center field and give MLB say, 2 1/2 hours to get 9 innings in?

Baseball is supposed to be officiated in the present, not the past. Here's the play, here's the call - that's it! If you don't make good calls, you loose your job (MLB) or you don't get games (the rest of us).

If I need help with a call, I go for it BEFORE I make the call as we were trained to do eons ago. If there is a possible rule mis-application then there should be a meeting. But I'm sorry, a bang-bang play should get one call - not a call, then a meeting, then another call. I'm for getting the call right, but that is my job, not a committee's.

So, I'm sure that most of you don't agree with this because our society demands investigations and verifications and political correctness. Well, this is baseball, not Watergate. I say save the meetings for the politicians. I'll just concentrate on the play and live with my call.... just as I am doing right now.

The trickle down effect of this will be felt soon...brace yourselves.

So Ozz, tell us how you REALLY feel about this.

Hey I wish gas was .32 cents/gal, the balloon vest was still used, Pres. Kennedy was still in office, that girls name I was with Nov. 6, never mind.

It would be a funny (and dull) world out there if everyone did everything the same and nothing ever changed.

Oh , and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now either!!!!!!!!

If you have to be an MLB umpire to critique their work, then under that same thinking you cannot umpire a high school baseball game unless you play high school baseball. Simply idiotic comment.

Wow, you really set me straight. I never playeded HS basaball eider.

Thank you for those words of wisdom.

It looked to me as the the 1st base umpire was blocked and could not see if Schill's foot hit the bag. Also, he was behind first base. It was a banger, he called him safe. Maybe it was one of those times when, as we all have done, you call a banger one way to quickly discover 2 seconds later that you made the wrong call after replaying it in your head. I don't know about you fellas, but after this has happened and a coach asked for an appeal, I explain to my partner how I made the wrong call and express my apologies b/c he will be taking the heat, but I have to reverse the call. Due to the angle of the 1st base umpire, the home plate umpire could see the base better and if Schill's foot touched it or not. A meeting, the correct thing to do in this situation, was called and the correct call was made. Good work, and any time there is a reversal of a call the opposite team is going to get pissed. Even if it was blatantly obvious.

Does a music critic have to write a symphony before critiquing an orchestra's performance? Does a drama critic have to produce a broadway production before reviewing a play? Does a sommelier have to stomp grapes before judging and recommending a pinot noir?

Why then would working MLB games be a prerequisited to critiquing an umpires mechanics?

Well Ozzy, I agree 100%.

What next? Do we get help on the banger that we just blow? It happens. Bad calls are part of the game. So the SS boots a ground ball. Do we stop the game and let him try to field it again to "get it right"?

And who said it was? Even though it didn't come across this way, my point was, even though Ozz does'nt agree with the way MLB is handling these situations now, (and that's his perogative), it's still going to happen. And it is still going to have an influence on mechanics used in other leagues.

Also, if he by chance does get called for a MLB game, I'm sure he will do it their way too.

What pressure are you talking about - the ball was NOT hit deep in the hole between the second and first baseman. Regardless, since when does pressure require the first base umpire to swing ALL THE WAY TO THE COACH'S BOX in foul territory.

With all due respect OZ, the positioning on this play was bad - PERIOD.

Well, seeing as how we all saw this play 1000 times and DeMuth got to do it ONCE, I'm not going to argue this point.

I can see that many of you out there really like the "meeting to get it right" BS, so here are some ideas for you all to chew on:

1. When in the B or C position, the BU can over-rule the decision of the PU's call of ball or strike (after meeting with him, of course).

2. All calls on the baseball field requiring any decision should be discussed with all the officials before renderng a call. And if the coaches do not agree, another meeting should take place until a decision is made that everyone (including the fans ) can live with!

[B]OZ,
The play was a wacker and a very difficult call to say the least. The point of this discussion is POSITIONING - not whether he got the call right or wrong.

Once again, if he positions himself CORRECTLY, we probably would not be having this conversation because he would have NOT needed to go for help on the play.

It has nothing to do with how many times we saw the play, or the slow motion, or hind sight or anything else. Bottom line, good positioning results in good angles... or in this case, bad positioning results in bad angles which = cluster fu*K

I'm with Oz. This "meeting to get it right" AFTER a call has been made is BS.

I don't agree. The official got caught out of position and had a bad angle. He got help and they got it right. I agree if he stays put on the line or a step fair, where we are taught to be, he see it and then there is no need as he would have had the angle. I still cannot understand why he moved where he did. Maybe something new for 4 man. That spot it just a bad place to be period. Where was that umpire (his name is escaping me right now) standing in the Cards/Royals World Series? Oh yeah, same spot.

I guess the meetings to rule one way or the other on HR/foul ball is not a good thing either. How long has that been going on?

Hey, those days of officials being "God" and whatever they say is "Gospel", .....ARE OVER WITH.

Deal with it, because it sticks out like a sore thumb that officials that aren't interested in getting the calls as correct as possible have an ego/attitude problem. And thats personal. They can't accept the fact that someone is questioning their authority, or that they just may be wrong.

This has nothing to do with tradition, nor was it ever ectched in stone in the rules either. The Leagues are hiring officials that can deal with it, and the game is getting better because of it.

Deal with it or don't let the door hit you in the A## on the way out. Because truthfully, there are enough attitudes to deal with already on the field. Having a partner with one, just ruins it for the rest of us.

*sends note to jicecone recommending decaf* :D

Hey I got to get 1000 on this forum, one way or another.

You know, you make me laugh! It's you that has an attitude problem - you must be insecure with your decisions!

I don't claim to be God no did anyone else! What we claim is simply we get less than a second to see the play and then we get to decide. If we feel that we have enough information to render a decision, so be it. If we don't have enough information, we go for help. What is so hard to understand here?

We are saying that this constant meeting BS is getting ridiculous! The old timers NEVER went for help - WE DO! But not on every little thing - jumping christ, you guys want to meet for anything and everything! Maybe it's you and your kind that need to walk out the door and let the game come back to where it should be. May I suggest you try football so you and all your buddies can huddle all you want!!!!!!

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I'm not saying one should never get help. Just ask for it if you are not sure about the foot (or tag) BEFORE you guess and make a call. Seem this MLB umpire guessed. If he was SURE he saw it right, then no "appeal." Hey, we have appeals now for judgment calls. By the way, I have no problems getting along with partners.

I agree with Macaroo
If I'm not sure about something, I'm not afraid to just go straight to my partner. Most of the time, I know that I'm right. But you shouldn't be have to get help for everything every time. If I know I'm right, I don't need help.

Hey Oz, no one is saying that we should huddle to discuss calls everytime. You are blowing this whole meeting thing out of proportion.

On this play, the 1st base umpire made the wrong call. That is a verifiable fact. The base umpire also was in a bad position and had a bad angle on the play. This also a fact.

If ever a play was a candidate for discussion, this was one of them. Even from the plate, the PU has a good angle and can easily see if the pitchers foot hit the bag. Diaz was looking where he was supposed to, gave that information to his partner when asked and the correct call was made. So what's the problem?