OBR Batting out turn???

eureka25 · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 30, 2005, 12:47pm

Here's the sitch:

OBR rules/house league/playoff game/continuous batting order for 13/14. Both teams turn in their lineups - Team A has 10 while Team B has 9. Team B is home team.

Team B acquires the 10th player sometime in the first inning and drops them at the bottom of the order and doesn't inform the umpire or Team A. B10 bats in the second inning - noone notices a problem. The game goes on... Fourth inning comes around and B10 bats again - noone notices anything. The game goes on... Fifth inning comes around and B10 gets a hit to tie the score. Now there is a problem!!!!

Team A manager comes out to tell the umpire that this was an illegal player/batting out of turn situation and should rule them out.

There are obviously a whole lot of questions that need to be addressed here as it refers to ethics/stupidity/rules/... But I will just leave at this and let me here some rulings and how you would handle the sitch.

FYI - I am avid reader/student from the site. I have been a patched umpire for softball for 4 years but now just do managing/administering Little League for our hometown. (Please don't hold that against me)

Thanks,
Jeff

His High Holiness · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 30, 2005, 01:03pm

This is a kiddie ball problem not covered by the rules. You can't use a rulebook to rule on something when a league has made a conscious decision not to play by the official rules. If I did kiddie ball, I'd tell the coach to go crawl back in his hole. The game at this age should be about participation, not winning. If the coach delayed heading back to his cave for even a second, I'd eject him. The coach is a skunk and should be treated like one.

Peter

TwoBits · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 30, 2005, 01:06pm

This is the problem with "house league" rules. The powers that be don't think of consequences for when the rule is violated.

My interpretation in your case would be that the lineups are official when exchanged. Since one team only had 9 on their lineup, they are bound to batting 9 for the entire game. Since the extra hitter wasn't brought to your attention earlier in the game by either team, his actions in previous innings stand.

After the extra hitter is brought to your attention, I've got an unreported substitute for the first hitter in the lineup. Play still stands.

Now tell me what really happened!

mikebran · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 30, 2005, 02:15pm

Oooo Oooo! AM I the first??

WTF: is a patched umpire??

No wait.. puleeeze don't tell me...

Hey, I don't got a patch... I must suck then...

Quote:

Originally posted by eureka25
I have been a patched umpire for softball for 4 years

largeone59 · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 30, 2005, 02:33pm

patched = certified.

eureka: if your league plays with wiffle ball rules, you gotta make up wiffle ball rules. Meaning: if there's no set way to handle such a thing, then you just gotta settle it yourself.

eureka25 · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 30, 2005, 03:18pm

The way it was ruled was exactly how twobits ruled it. This was an illegal substitution and the batter's first two plate appearances stand. However, the current one that was questioned was deemed illegal.

The league in question is designed to be a "participation" league. Our organization does a solid job in finding quality managers to alleviate and type of competitive issues/bending of our rules to use to their advantage. It appears that this individual did just that and more discussion is forthcoming.

Thanks to all the "senior members" for adding the value to this topic.

I apologize to everyone for using "jargon" on the board as relating to a certification. The term "PATCHED" is looked at as dignity in my neck of the wood and throughout the areas I have traveled. I just make to make sure that mikebran is not insulted and I just wish that some value could be added to more of my legitimate questions in the future.

ps: i hope you get the sarcasm mikebran!!!!!!!!!

Jeff

cowbyfan1 · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 01, 2005, 05:24am

sounds to me like it is a participation type league where the bench bats. I would have told them that if after the first AB if it was not questioned then he is batting in order, especially if he was inserted into the bottom of the order which sounds like the league rule. The question would be if he played defense and if he got his participation in there. If they knew he was in the field at a point earlier in the game then they have nothing else to say and nothing will be changed. Don't like it? cough up the money for an appeal. Keep arguing? Go see the parking lot.

TBBlue · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 01, 2005, 03:31pm

Typically in a game with continuous batting order, you can add to the bottom of the lineup if a kid shows up. I've worked some mid-season "fun" tourneys, and that is the way the ground rules are written. It's participation for crying out loud. If there are no written rules, mention it at plate meeting...."if someone shows up, just stick them at the bottom of the lineup, we are here to get the kids at bats." Simple.

The main point on continuous lineups that must be heeded, is you must bat the maximum slots you have in the game at any time. If you drop below that (kid gets hurt or whatever) there is an out recorded for that vacant slot. This prevents the competitive rat from benching little Percy late in the game so he doesn't do his obligitory strike out with two outs and bases loaded.