Pitcher stumbles on pick-off attempt

[jstone999]

Didn't see this, but it's being discussed on a local umpire forum in Germany. Last weekend, White Sox against the Dodgers. Pitcher attempts a pick-off to first from set position (without disengaging) but stumbles during the attempt and overthrows first. Blue gives TWO bases.

Did anyone see this? Why two bases? Does stumbling during the throw constitute disengagment, or did the umpire blow the call, or what else could explain awarding two bases on a pick-off overthrow?

jeffstone
goettingen

[drumbum565]

I think a it could be couple of things.

A. At the time the pitcher made the play (which is where it counts from as far as the base runner goes) the base runner was between second and first there for he was going to second at the time of the throw so when the ball went dead he got the base he was going to and the next one.

B. You didn’t say that the ball went dead if it didn't then he could run home if he likes. I had a play similar to that the other day the ball bounced off the pole 2 feet from the edge of the fence therefore it was still live and the right fielder attempted to gun the runner down at home but the catcher didn’t make the tag.

C. Something else that I’m not thinking

[aevans410]

Originally posted by drumbum565
I think a it could be couple of things.

A. At the time the pitcher made the play (which is where it counts from as far as the base runner goes) the base runner was between second and first there for he was going to second at the time of the throw so when the ball went dead he got the base he was going to and the next one.

B. You didn’t say that the ball went dead if it didn't then he could run home if he likes. I had a play similar to that the other day the ball bounced off the pole 2 feet from the edge of the fence therefore it was still live and the right fielder attempted to gun the runner down at home but the catcher didn’t make the tag.

C. Something else that I’m not thinking

Huh?

Thats wrong, on all points. You award bases from time of pitch or time of throw depending on the situation. I won't go into the situations, I'll leave that to figure out on your own.

If a pitcher throws the ball out of play while on the rubber, its a 1 base award from TOP, no ifs ands, or buts. There has to be something else (like a legal disengagement) that caused the runner to get two bases. He also said blue gives two bases so the ball had to go into dead ball territory.

[U_of_I_Blue]

Drum-

1 base from time of throw if the pitcher was on the rubber when the throw was made.

2 bases from time of throw if pitcher disengages and then throws or if it is thrown by a fielder (unless it is the first play by an infielder, then it's from time of pitch).

None of this the base they're going to plus 1 junk.

So unless the pitcher disengaged before he threw it out of play, award should only be second.

This is assuming the ball actually ended up in DBT.

-Josh

[bob jenkins]

I think that the umpires got it wrong.

I can only speculate that they thought F1 had stepped off during the ugly attempt.

[jstone999]

Originally posted by drumbum565
I think a it could be couple of things.

B. You didn't say that the ball went dead if it didn't then he could run home if he likes.

I thought it went without saying that the ball was dead. Sorry if I confused you.

jeffstone
goettingen

[mrm21711]

Originally posted by jstone999
Didn't see this, but it's being discussed on a local umpire forum in Germany. Last weekend, White Sox against the Dodgers. Pitcher attempts a pick-off to first from set position (without disengaging) but stumbles during the attempt and overthrows first. Blue gives TWO bases.

Did anyone see this? Why two bases? Does stumbling during the throw constitute disengagment, or did the umpire blow the call, or what else could explain awarding two bases on a pick-off overthrow?

jeffstone
goettingen

Everybody seemed to focus on the overthrow, but isnt it correct that a stumble on the pickoff, as long as he didnt stop his motion and made a throw to first, would not be a balk in itself?

[U_of_I_Blue]

Correct mm.

-Josh

[jstone999]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mrm21711

Everybody seemed to focus on the overthrow, but isnt it correct that a stumble on the pickoff, as long as he didnt stop his motion and made a throw to first, would not be a balk in itself?

Maybe, but that would be a ONE base award, not two.

jeffstone
goettingen

[CraigD]

I saw the play too and told my wife that I thought the umpires missed that one. He didn't disengage before throwing, and it didn't appear to me that he stepped in the direction of first.

After the two base award, the manager came back out to argue. It wasn't clear what he was wanting, but the talking heads were suggesting he wanted a balk in order to reduce the award to one base.

In any case, I thought they kicked that call.

CraigD
Israel

[mcrowder]

Oh, dear God, dumbrumb. I tried to defend you hear a couple of times, but you keep proving that you really need to get your @$$ off the field and into the books. I've had coaches that I consider rule-idiots that understand the rules better than you. You seem to have found EVERY incorrect coach assumption, and quoted it here as gospel. Damn. What's next - hands are part of the bat?

The base he's going to plus one, huh. Hadn't heard that misnomer in a while. Didn't think there were any umpires in existence today that still thought that was the rule.

[largeone59]

Originally posted by drumbum565

A. At the time the pitcher made the play (which is where it counts from as far as the base runner goes) the base runner was between second and first there for he was going to second at the time of the throw so when the ball went dead he got the base he was going to and the next one.

You've just lost all credibility on this board for that statement.


Please read this before ever posting again:

http://eteamz.active.com/baseball/rules/obr/myths/

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by largeone59

You've just lost all credibility on this board for that statement.


Please read this before ever posting again:

http://eteamz.active.com/baseball/rules/obr/myths/

hang on just a sec...it's obvious that drummer boy is a newbie...we have all made a mistake or three. Let's correct him and get him straight. You gotta give the kid props for not coming in and spouting LL crap and how he knows it all. At least he wants to learn.

[UmpJM]

jumpmaster,

I would agree with your assessment that the drummer is a newbie (at least I hope so).

Originally posted by drumbum565

As far as takeing crap, you dont need to worry. I lead my association in ejections

Personally, I find his above statement somewhat disturbing. I would guess that the vast majority of his ejections are a direct result of his own improper rulings on plays resulting from his woefully inadequate understanding of the proper application of the rules of baseball.

I find that the combination of arrogance (hair trigger on ejections) and ignorance (inadequate knowledge of the rules to properly officiate) makes for a very poor umpire.

What do you think?

JM

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by CoachJM

I find that the combination of arrogance (hair trigger on ejections) and ignorance (inadequate knowledge of the rules to properly officiate) makes for a very poor umpire.

What do you think?

JM [/B]

Sounds like he has two choices...
a. learn to be a good umpire
b. give up umpiring and become a rat