K in the federation rulebook rule 10,section 1, article 2

"Umpire jurisdiction begins upon the umpires arriving at the felid (with in the confines of the field) and ends when the umpires leave the playing field at the CONCLUSION of the game"

I am currently umpiring for a high school age league and I am umpiring for a team this Thursday that I have had a history with. Most of the people on the team didn’t like me before i ejected their pitcher. Anyways all of the umpires for the 7+ fields in this park meet at a shed behind the field I am umpiring and I on a different day when this team wasn’t playing several members cussed at me and threatened me (they really hate me). The thing is we meet at the shed about 45 minutes before game time when most of the teams aren’t there yet. My question is what if when I arrive I go on to that field (on the actual field) and tell the coaches (both coaches not just the one I expect trouble from) that my jurisdiction has begun anything your players say to me out there will be the same as if they say it during a game. I’ve read that rule about 50 times and i can't see anything stopping that loophole. What do you guys think?

Bare in mind that as soon as i step on the field I am an objective umpire so i know neither team I have just meet them that moment so I would not be looking for trouble just have my good old ejection finger incase someone brings trouble to me.


[Edited by drumbum565 on Jun 20th, 2005 at 01:03 AM]

I think you are absolutely correct. When you walk onto the field, you are an "objectionable" umpire. You need to act accordingly.

so you think if i get off the feild to join my fellow umpires and a kid comes up to me and starts cussing at me so long as i have walked onto the feild my jurisdiction stands and i can eject them??

Step 1--Look up "objectionable."

Step 2--Reflect on how step one MAY apply to you.

Crap i feel stupid i meant "objective" i am realy tired i will change it in the other post.

A few thoughts:

If you meet with potentially 13 fellow umpires behind the shed, why not avoid a potential volatile situation by trading games with one of the other umps? In general, I don't believe in avoiding teams/coaches based on past games, but this sounds particularly hateful, so why would the assignor subject you and everyone unnecessarily?

Although you see yourself as "objective." I beg to differ. You are already expecting/predicting trouble three days before the scheduled game. If you cannot get out of this game. or choose not to, clear your head and focus. Ignore any comments before entering the field. Arrive at the field close to game time, have a polite and professional plate meeting (if you are BU keep your mouth shut). If you are PU and coach starts in about the last horrible game, say we are starting fresh today and setting a good example for the players. Ignore all fans, period. Don't bring up the old history or issue ultimatums, warnings. Focus, work hard, don't allow yourself to be baited, but take care of business if necessary.

Save the rule book for umpiring games, not as a crutch to throw weight around and justify looking for trouble. IMO
And of course, have fun.

i'll try...
 

drumbumm, let me encourage you to invest in a grammar handbook and a dictionary. your posts are hurting my head.

That aside, you ask a good question.

First, follow macaroo's suggestions. You will appear professional, competent and objective, despite the feeling that you are "objectionable."

Don't bring up past games. Think of it like this: coach comes out to argue a whacker in the 5th inning. Then he starts talking about a call you made in 2nd inning. He has crossed the line.

If you state "I now have jurisdiction of this game" you look like a pompous fool and are setting the conditions for a confrontation.

Drumbumm,

Go to the field often and throw them out. Even if you don't have a game that day.

Im sure by their next game that you umpire for them, you will have them so scared they won't say Boo to you.

Eject often and many. That will fix dem smartie kids.

Is The "Bummer" For Real ?
 

Is dumbbum putting us on ?

Has to be !!! (I hope).




Doug

<i> Originally posted by drumbum565 </i>

<b> I am umpiring and I on a different day when this team wasn’t playing several members cussed at me and threatened me (they really hate me). </b>

This is how it works in my association.

During Summer ball, we had 2 players from one team taunt and threaten an umpire. The umpires on the field stopped the game immediately and went home. No getting changed etc. Get in your car and go.

My assignot was called and told the President of this particular league we service <i> Under No uncertain Terms" </i>

Either these 2 Players be released IMMEDIATELY and barred for the remainder of the season or we will not service your league anymore.

I do not know about your area, but the aforementioned is one MAIN reason to belong to an association.

Summary: Contact your UIC on the asscoaition you belong to and get their input.

Pete Booth

Well, I don't show up 45 minutes before anything but a playoff game, and I'm sure not going to sit around and swap stories with my umpire buddies for very long before the game.

I show up to do a job, umpire.

That's what I'm there for and what I'll do.

If you do it well, you won't have any problems you can't handle.

I don't worry about players or coaches until I step on the field.

Thanks
David

Thanks, for the advice. I will defenitl try to switch games however at this point it might be preaty difficult. I will just hope that since im sorrounded by my boss and about 13 other umpires that they wont give me any trouble. Thanks for all your advice and if you think you got anything more that can help me please post it.

David B Wrote:

I show up to do a job, umpire.

That's what I'm there for and what I'll do.

If you do it well, you won't have any problems you can't handle.

----------------------------------------------------

That is the solution to most, if not all of your problems with game management.

I’m sorry to just out right disagree, however there are many situations in which no matter what the call is you got someone on your back. For instance today last inning (I'm BU) the away team ties it in the top of the inning. In the bottom of the inning with 2 outs a runner goes home on an over throw there is a close play but the runner was safe and the PU called him safe. The away team's bench cleared and the whole team charged the PU. I ran up and ejected about 4 or 5 people for cussing and other stuff, except no one heard me (they found out a few minutes latter they didn’t have enough people to play the next game now a couple of minutes later). My point is no matter how well of a job you do you are always going to have one coach that doesn’t know the rules, one coach that "is always right", one coach that just goes crazy.

Confrontation is part of the game. You can't avoid it. Learn to deal with it.

Thats what im saying, it will happen if you're a bad umpire or a good one it doen't matter.

Thats the motto of the bad umpire.

In reality, it happens far, far less often to good umpires.

Not really on that. There are times where there are conflicts between and umpire and a team or coach. It just happens. Sometimes it maybe over a call. Or it could be over a whole game. I had a horrible game in my younger days at a perticular school. I have improved greatly since then, but there is a coach at the school that I can never do right by since.
We have another very good official that cannot call at another school do to some conflict with the head coach there. We literally had to have him and another official swap fields to avoid the situation. The fields were clear accross town from one another.

Really on that!

Take what Garth has said to heart, because it is true, true, true.

"Thats the motto of the bad umpire.

In reality, it happens far, far less often to good umpires."

Sounds like you work in an area that needs some SERIOUS administrative control. That team should be done for the season. Even though we have to see that crap on TV in MLB, there is NO place for it in baseball. If that happened in NCAA, there would be SERIOUS ramifications. High-school? Their season might be done. Younger - there's no question that they should be done (and perhaps the coach done for life if he went out there with them).

<b>Well ideally that may be correct assumption, but reality is different.

If he's that good of an official then he should know how to handle a coach and you don't let it interfere with any present game.

I've had coaches that I've had to eject time and time again, they don't like me, but when it comes down to it they want me calling their big game because they know I'm going to do a good job.

Another coach that scratched me in HS one season, he moved and still comes in our area twice a year, and they always give me his games because he's a problem coach.

I don't like him, he don't like me, but we have a mutual agreement. Ironically, this year he won the state championship in his division and guess who had his regional and semi-final games?

He showed his tail, (usually to my partners) I had to put him in his place and all was well. But, it was a good game and they ended up winning.

Thanks
David

To expand on what Garth so eloquently said.

-Good umpires DO in deed have their judgement questioned.
-Good umpires know their judgement is solid and nothing phases them (most of the time anyway).
-Good umpires know when they missed a play, kicked one, etc. They don't need an excuse to hide behind.
-Good umpires know when they're getting worked by a coach, and a good coach knows whether he can work an umpire or not.

Am I saying your not a good umpire, not at all, I've never seen you work. I can say that I thought the same way you did when I was first starting out. I realized I was the problem, not the coaches. I got better, I strive to get better every game.

My advice, do the game unless your fearing bodily harm. Be courteous, but firm if you have to be. Don't accomodate them, but if you have to launch them, don't hesitate.

Indeed, there are times good umpires have conflicts. But, if, as time goes by, those instances are not getting fewer and farther between, you are not improving.

I see what your saying.

reinforcement
 

Last year my chapter had a senior umpire involved in a close play, an argument and a valid ejection of a player for charging the umpire and making contact. Following the game the player and his Dad/Coach followed the umpire to his car and threatened and harassed both umpires until the police eventually had to be called....

The game occurred on an the evening of our weekly summer chapter meeting. After hearing the story a phone call was made to the league.......and they were told by our association president that NO umpires will be reporting for ANY games until the offenders were punished..........

end result, Dad/coach banned from league permanently, Player suspended for the rest of the season.....

Makes paying the association dues worth every penny....so Im hoping that your association group will back you up and offer support......and some training and guidance on conflict management......



[Edited by piaa_ump on Jun 22nd, 2005 at 12:11 PM]

I meant to ask earlier, where is "K" in rule 10, section1, article 2? I've looked for "K" and can't find it anywhere.

Garth, its right next to O in rule 10, section 1, article 2 ;)

OK

I have passed the following "words" or semi-words, or combinations of letters through the UNIVERSAL TRANSLATOR, and its coming up with Zilch. Of course, I could just Bare my mind too!

drumbum...
 

From the tone of your posts you seem to be an inexperienced umpire.

I recommend that you work the game...with one of the big dogs in your group. Have him go with you to watch your back. Let your "inner-Stalin" free and take charge of the game. Don't take any crap, not even a fart from upwind.

I would wager that the coaches are perceiving a "weakness" in you and are on it like a dog on a ham bone. If you are a real redneck you will understand what I mean...I should know, I is one.

As far as takeing crap, you dont need to worry. I lead my association in ejections.

Not always something to be proud of. I have two in my career, and have only been close to one more.

I have 200-300 games in roughly. I can name the only three instances where game got out of hand.

1. I balked a lefty for stepping off from the wind up with the correct foot. Winning run scored. I refused to change the call. Not pretty.

2. I was screened by R3 on bouncer down third base line. Ball had huge spin on it, kicked 90 degrees into foul territory, near the base. I didn't see it hit the base, but called it fair because of the 90 degree turn the ball took. Winning run scored. VERY, VERY UGLY, because partner wasn't looking at ball and gave me no help when asked. Runner who scored said "thanks Blue". That one was a huge gross miss and I paid for it the rest of the game.

3. I safed a pulled foot on 1b from C, defense Mgr. asked me to check PU. I did (oops) plate guy says absolutely he held base, I reversed call, effectively ending a last inning rally. Kind of ugly, but I left through winners dugout so didn't hear exactly what kind of equine feces I was.

That's it in 2 years of calling all levels through H.S. If you consistently call a good game, you won't have issues 99% of the time.

Well,
 

I have 314 ejections.

But I have worked more games than some.

HOWEVER only two of these are in the last six years.

Anytime I hear an official I'm working with brag about his high ejection total, as dumbrumb just did, I try to work as few games with that guy as possible. It's nothing to brag about - as often it's an indication that you let things get away from you far too often.

I disagree, sometimes. It often is a case of an umpire that can't manage the game. However, look at Tim C. I would wager he has figured out the game management business.

I have two ejections this year. Coach barked about balls and strikes, I said "that's enough." He said "I've had enough of you." Buh-Bye.

14 yr old city semi-final game, bottom of 1st, 2 outs. BR grumbles about a called strike 2, drops bat. Same pitch, called strike 3. Both were waist high down the middle of the plate. As he stomps away, he says "that's bullcrap." Buh-bye. He throws helmet, bat and leaves the field in tears like a 6 yr old girl. Momma chasing him squaking "baby, baby, it's ok." Coach walks by and says "thanks, he has been a hot-head all year." I bit my toungue to keep from saying, "maybe if his coach would act like an adult and grow a set we wouldn't be having this conversation."

Two uniquely different games, skill levels and management techniques. Both sent the right message at the right time. An ejection is a tool to use. Unfortunately, inexperienced guys don't know how to use it effectively.

To an extent, many ejections is a bad thing. But it depends on what level you are working.

Drumbum said he is calling in a "high school aged league". I would assume that this means that the coaches are just the player's dads. As everyone knows, these coaches have less knowledge of the rules than "school" coaches, and they have far less knowledge of how to conduct oneself on the field.

It is one thing to let the game get out of hand, and you end up having to eject a few people. That is very differenct from a coach coming out to argue with you, and doing something stupid, which they get ejected for.

Last night, I called a Babe Ruth game with HS players, probally similar to drumbum's games. There was R1 with one out. Line drive to F6, who catches, and throws wild to F3 in an attempt to get R1 out on appeal. The wild throw ends up in the dugout. I send R1 to third on the 2 base award, which of course stirs up the defensive dugout.

The manager came out to argue. I stand there, listen, and reply "No, that's not correct. It is a 2 base award." The manager then turns his back to me, starts waving his hands above his head, and begins yelling to the spectators about how everyone knows I am wrong, and such.

Of course the manager was ejected. This was the only time anyone said anything about anything the whole game. It was a single event, in which the manager didn't know the rules, or how to conduct himself on the field, which in turn caused him to be removed from the game.

You both missed my point. It is not the fact of the high number of ejections that gets me worried. Tee, for example, mentioned a high number, and is (from my perception of his comments here) a good official. But Tee didn't mention it in a bragging way.

DB did. It's officials that BRAG about being quick on the trigger that are almost always scary.

to that I would agree.