Coach disconcerting pitcher question

[TwoDot]

I was watching a LL Juniors game last night and the following situation occured that has me puzzeled. Runner on third in a close game batting team down by one run. The third base coach is trying to get the runner to charge down the line faking a steal of home by talking to him somewhat loudly, "farther, farther, farther."

This of course is happening while the pitcher is just starting his motion to pitch.

After the pitch, the field umpire, calls time, tells the coach that he can't do that while the pitcher is in his motion. He then told the Plate ump to put the count back at 2-2 (what the count was before the pitch).

My question is was this the proper call and procedure? I have umpired many years LL, Babe Ruth, Legion, and have never had a situation like that occur. HP umpire was from batting team, certified, and the field umpire was from the fielding team, adult, looked like he may be an umpire.

Any rule cites would be kindly accepted so I may add to my knowledge. Thanks!

[TBBlue]

I've got nothing but an OOO at any level.

[orioles35]

I had something similar happen a few years ago.

During a 15 year old tournament, one of the higher ranked teams was getting beat. This team's coach was a big pain in the a**, the type that he wouldn't say a word when he was ahead but if he was losing, forget it. Intimidation of umpires or players was this guy's game.

During this game, the opposing pitcher is throwing a gem. Hasn't given them squat in 4-5 innings. With a runner on third, this coach kept making comments like "he can't do that" or some such as the pitcher comes set. He's not saying the word "balk", but it's clear that's what he's talking about. There was nothing being done by this pitcher that even remotely resembled a balk. Then after the inning was over and more importantly, the opposing pitcher is in the dugout (next to where I kept my water), he comes over to me and says "Can't you see him doing that with runners on? He can't do that." The pitcher hadn't done a thing, but he came over there to say that loud enough that the pitcher in the dugout could hear it, thus trying to get into the kids head that he was doing something wrong while in the stretch.

I don't know if there are rules about intimidating a fifteen year old, but I didn't know there was anything I could have done about it. Certainly I should have escorted that coach back to his dugout out of earshot of the other team, but didn't realize what was going on at the time, I was just wondering what the coach was whining about.

[UmpJM]

TwoDot,

The relevant rule (OBR) is:

"4.06

...(3) Call "Time," or employ any other word or phrase or commit any act while the ball is alive and in play for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit a balk. "

As described, I would be inclined to agree with TBBlue's assertion that the umpire may have been a little "overzealous" in his application of the rule.

Had I seen it myself, I might think differently.

JM

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by TBBlue
I've got nothing but an OOO at any level.

I agree.

Same as a head official here who told players in the dugout during their time at bat to stop chanting "rally, rally, rally"!

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by orioles35
I had something similar happen a few years ago.

During a 15 year old tournament, one of the higher ranked teams was getting beat. This team's coach was a big pain in the a**, the type that he wouldn't say a word when he was ahead but if he was losing, forget it. Intimidation of umpires or players was this guy's game.

During this game, the opposing pitcher is throwing a gem. Hasn't given them squat in 4-5 innings. With a runner on third, this coach kept making comments like "he can't do that" or some such as the pitcher comes set. He's not saying the word "balk", but it's clear that's what he's talking about. There was nothing being done by this pitcher that even remotely resembled a balk. Then after the inning was over and more importantly, the opposing pitcher is in the dugout (next to where I kept my water), he comes over to me and says "Can't you see him doing that with runners on? He can't do that." The pitcher hadn't done a thing, but he came over there to say that loud enough that the pitcher in the dugout could hear it, thus trying to get into the kids head that he was doing something wrong while in the stretch.



I don't know if there are rules about intimidating a fifteen year old, but I didn't know there was anything I could have done about it. Certainly I should have escorted that coach back to his dugout out of earshot of the other team, but didn't realize what was going on at the time, I was just wondering what the coach was whining about.

Actually, you could have stopped it immediately when he said "He can't do that." Go ahead and assume he is arguing your judgement of a balk call and stop him at that point. If he continues, buh bye. Most coaches know where the line is, and if you let them cross it, they will. Speaking to their player, however loudly, is not even approaching the line, however, speaking to the umpire is stepping way over, especially if he is telling the umpire what to call.

Also, maybe keeping your water 20-30 feet down the line from the dugout would be wise as well. Or just go to right field when inning is over. He would have to chase you in order to say anything.

[Edited by TBBlue on May 19th, 2005 at 06:06 PM]

[Saltydog]

orioles35,

Realizing at all times that umps are impartial, I'd been really tempted to tell the psyops manager, 'Thanks for bringing to my attention what you erroneously believe to be a rule infraction. But as far as I can tell, that kids isn't doing anything wrong. In fact, he seems to being a lot right. Some people would even say he's ripping you guys a new one. Maybe you want to look at your batters a little closer?' :-)

SD
yeah I know, you're allowed to let it go through you head, but not past your lips.

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by Saltydog
orioles35,

Realizing at all times that umps are impartial, I'd been really tempted to tell the psyops manager, 'Thanks for bringing to my attention what you erroneously believe to be a rule infraction. But as far as I can tell, that kids isn't doing anything wrong. In fact, he seems to being a lot right. Some people would even say he's ripping you guys a new one. Maybe you want to look at your batters a little closer?' :-)

SD
yeah I know, you're allowed to let it go through you head, but not past your lips.

Oh yeah, I've thought it...

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by TwoDot
I was watching a LL Juniors game last night and the following situation occured that has me puzzeled. Runner on third in a close game batting team down by one run. The third base coach is trying to get the runner to charge down the line faking a steal of home by talking to him somewhat loudly, "farther, farther, farther."

This of course is happening while the pitcher is just starting his motion to pitch.

After the pitch, the field umpire, calls time, tells the coach that he can't do that while the pitcher is in his motion. He then told the Plate ump to put the count back at 2-2 (what the count was before the pitch).

My question is was this the proper call and procedure? I have umpired many years LL, Babe Ruth, Legion, and have never had a situation like that occur. HP umpire was from batting team, certified, and the field umpire was from the fielding team, adult, looked like he may be an umpire.

Any rule cites would be kindly accepted so I may add to my knowledge. Thanks!

While I agree that we should not allow the third base coach from commiting acts of verbal interference with regard to the pitcher, the situation described in this play is not interference. The coach is giving instructions to his runner with regard to his lead and I would tread very lightly trying to define the coach's actions as interference. There is nothing in the rules that prohibit a coach from giving directions and information to his runner.

MTD, Sr.

[LMan]

agreed. This notion about the field having to become as silent as a golf course when the pitcher winds is a bit nonsensical to me

[mcrowder]

A bit?

[chris s]

Originally posted by Saltydog
orioles35,

Realizing at all times that umps are impartial, I'd been really tempted to tell the psyops manager, 'Thanks for bringing to my attention what you erroneously believe to be a rule infraction. But as far as I can tell, that kids isn't doing anything wrong. In fact, he seems to being a lot right. Some people would even say he's ripping you guys a new one. Maybe you want to look at your batters a little closer?' :-)

SD
yeah I know, you're allowed to let it go through you head, but not past your lips.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

LOL!!!!!! Maybe in my younger years

[tarheelcoach]

What about this?

We have a coach that we play against frequently who has taken to yelling, "Now, now!" at the top of his lungs when his runners are on base as soon as the pitcher starts his delivery.
The umpires have said he is talking to his runners, so they can't do anything.
I have argued that he is yelling it that level (he screams it even if the runner is at third - right next to him) to distract the pitcher.

My guys have learned to ignore it, but it bothered them the first couple of times he did it.

[chris s]

Originally posted by tarheelcoach
What about this?

We have a coach that we play against frequently who has taken to yelling, "Now, now!" at the top of his lungs when his runners are on base as soon as the pitcher starts his delivery.
The umpires have said he is talking to his runners, so they can't do anything.
I have argued that he is yelling it that level (he screams it even if the runner is at third - right next to him) to distract the pitcher.

My guys have learned to ignore it, but it bothered them the first couple of times he did it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

NOTHING wrong with this. When I was coaching my son's 9-10's, I was on it...."GO!!!", then when they were coming into 2cd it was "SLIDE HARD!!"

[cowbyfan1]

First thing I would have asked the coach what is it he cannot do. If he sees something wrong, something other than "He can't do that" better come out of his mouth. Then a I'll watch for it.

Point is I'm not going to let him talk general terms. He better have something specific. If he doesn't a warning about trying to distract the pitcher may be in order if I am calling a league that specifies that it will not happen.

You could say otherwise it goes to good sportsmanship to not let anything be said/hollered when the pitcher is pitching. As well if the pitcher balks because of the hollering call time and declaring it nothing per OBR rule 4.06 3 or Fed you can use 3-2-3-g-3.