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-   -   Strike or HBP? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/20400-strike-hbp.html)

JRSooner Tue May 17, 2005 02:41pm

(1)Lead off batter up in the first inning, first pitch is thrown, RH batter attempts to drag bunt, pitcher throws an inside fastball, hits the batter on the fingers of his right hand(closest to the barrel) out in front of the plate. Now assuming that it appeared it was going to be a strike over the inside corner, what is the call? The umps at the game said even though he was in front of the plate that he pulled the bat back slightly, and since this was an attempt to avoid being hit that it didn't matter if it was a ball or strike, and gave him a HBP. Is that right?
(2)If the plate umpire thought it was going to be too far inside in this same instance would it change the call?

w_sohl Tue May 17, 2005 02:52pm

If the player is striking at the pitch it dosn't matter where it hits the player, it is a strike. From your story it seems the in the umpires JUDGMENT that the player pulled back and tried to avoid the pitch without making an attempt to strike the ball, therefore HBP.

mcrowder Tue May 17, 2005 03:17pm

No.

Initial poster says the ball was judged to be an inside strike (i.e. over the plate). If a player is hit by a pitch that would have been a strike, it's a dead-ball strike.

Now - initial poster may be making an assumption. If the umpire did not actually state that the ball would have been a strike had it not hit the batter, and also judged (as stated) that the batter was pulling the bat back, and thus NOT attempting to hit the ball --- then you have HBP and award first.

In the first instance, therefore, this is a dead-ball strike, while in the second, it's an award of first base.

thumpferee Tue May 17, 2005 03:19pm

I'm trying to visualize a RH batter drag bunt.

If B1 is leaning in over the plate attempting to run before making contact while in the strike zone and gets hit with the pitch, ball is dead and B1 is staying in the box, unless strike 3.

It seems in your sitch, the batter made contact with the pitch, not visa versa.

Maybe a HTBT.

JMO




JRSooner Tue May 17, 2005 03:56pm

Yes I was assuming it was a strike. I really don't know if it was the wrong call or not but I was trying to figure out if it 's a drag bunt then typically the RH batter would be in front of the plate trying to get an edge on running to first base, and I wanted to know if (A) it was a strike would it really matter if the batter pulled his hands back at a pitch coming right at him and (B) if it was a ball would that make it a HBP. I figured it would but I wasn't sure.

thumpferee Tue May 17, 2005 04:08pm

From OBR
 
6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when_

(b)He is touched by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless (1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball; If the ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a strike, whether or not the batter tries to avoid the ball. If the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if he makes no attempt to avoid being touched. APPROVED RULING: When the batter is touched by a pitched ball which does not entitle him to first base, the ball is dead and no runner may advance

jicecone Tue May 17, 2005 05:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
I'm trying to visualize a RH batter drag bunt.

If B1 is leaning in over the plate attempting to run before making contact while in the strike zone and gets hit with the pitch, ball is dead and B1 is staying in the box, unless strike 3.

It seems in your sitch, the batter made contact with the pitch, not visa versa.

Maybe a HTBT.

JMO




I agree with you, I have never heard of a Right Hander drag bunting the ball. ??????? But , I could be learnded.

DG Tue May 17, 2005 07:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jicecone
Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
I'm trying to visualize a RH batter drag bunt.

If B1 is leaning in over the plate attempting to run before making contact while in the strike zone and gets hit with the pitch, ball is dead and B1 is staying in the box, unless strike 3.

It seems in your sitch, the batter made contact with the pitch, not visa versa.

Maybe a HTBT.

JMO




I agree with you, I have never heard of a Right Hander drag bunting the ball. ??????? But , I could be learnded.

I wouldn't call it a drag bunt either but I have seen many RH's moving towards 1B as they contact the ball, usually pushing the ball up the 1b line on the bunt. This move don't work too good on inside pitches, and maybe the pitcher/catcher had an idea that he might bunt and that's why the pitch went to the inside corner.

JRSooner Tue May 17, 2005 08:26pm

I'm sorry if my terminology is off but I always thought a drag bunt is when a batter is trying to bat his way on base and doesn't square early, but I could be wrong.

DG Tue May 17, 2005 09:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRSooner
I'm sorry if my terminology is off but I always thought a drag bunt is when a batter is trying to bat his way on base and doesn't square early, but I could be wrong.
I think of a drag bunt as a LH batter who sticks his bat out at the last moment as his body is leaning toward 1B hoping to drag the ball down the 1b line and get an extra step to 1B on his way out of the box. He literally makes contact with the ball, while stepping toward 1B, but feet still clearly in the box or at least not on the ground outside the box. A similar bunt up the 1b line can be done by a RH batter, especially on a low outside pitch, but he is not dragging his bat, but more pushing it toward 1b.


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