Double Play Question

[Rev.Ref63]

I hope this isn't considered a "dumb question." I've always taught my children that the only dumb question is a questioned not asked.

My 16 year old son and I love to watch and play baseball. Recently, we were watching a Cub's game and my son noticed during a replay that the shortstop was not touching second base during a successful doubleplay. He was amazed that the umpire called the runner "out" when the defensive player was "off the bag" at second. I told him that I thought there was a "zone" that the defensive player must be in and did not have to literally "touch" second base.

Am I correct about this play or did the umpire on TV blow the call?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Rev.Ref63
I hope this isn't considered a "dumb question." I've always taught my children that the only dumb question is a questioned not asked.

My 16 year old son and I love to watch and play baseball. Recently, we were watching a Cub's game and my son noticed during a replay that the shortstop was not touching second base during a successful doubleplay. He was amazed that the umpire called the runner "out" when the defensive player was "off the bag" at second. I told him that I thought there was a "zone" that the defensive player must be in and did not have to literally "touch" second base.

Am I correct about this play or did the umpire on TV blow the call?

The rules require the player to touch the base.

The practice (at the MLB level) has been to allow the "neighboorhood play" especially if the play is smooth. The practice seems to be changing a little, given the vast number of games that are on TV and the many cameras used.

[JRutledge]

If the issue is whether the base was touched within inches, then the fielder touched the base. Umpires do not get the benefit of replay and 2 or 3 different angles.

Peace

[bluezebra]

The pros, not just MLB, have the "phantom" or "neighborhood" touch at 2B on a DP. The purpose is to prevent, as much as possible, serious injury to the pivot men.

It's pretty much like F3 pulling his foot just before the ball arrives, as long as the throw is accurate. Again, in the name of preventing injury.

Rememember, the pros have millions of dollars invested in these guys.

Bob

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by Rev.Ref63
I hope this isn't considered a "dumb question." I've always taught my children that the only dumb question is a questioned not asked.

My 16 year old son and I love to watch and play baseball. Recently, we were watching a Cub's game and my son noticed during a replay that the shortstop was not touching second base during a successful doubleplay. He was amazed that the umpire called the runner "out" when the defensive player was "off the bag" at second. I told him that I thought there was a "zone" that the defensive player must be in and did not have to literally "touch" second base.

Am I correct about this play or did the umpire on TV blow the call?

Reverend,

The rule does state that the base needs to be touched by the fielder with the ball. As the game progressed through the years, it became an "art" to take out the pivot man on the double play. ***Please note that the pivot man is the lead man in the double play and 99.9% of the time is at 2nd base.***
Ty Cobb used to run at full speed, kick out both feet in the air and come at you with "his nails up". He harpooned many a short stop and second baseman in his day. MLB has been allowing the pivot man to "get close enough" to say that the touch could have happened. This of course is the judgement of the umpire.

Over time, this has filtered down to NCAA, FED (High School) and youth leagues that use the 90' diamond. I never require the pivot man to actually touch the base but I have on occasion called a runner safe because the pivot man was just too far off the base. As far as I know, players on the 60' diamond still have to touch the base.

[jumpmaster]

At the 2005 Southern Umpires Camp...

Richie Garcia, MLB Umpire Supervisor - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play or overhead cameras"

Jerry Crawford, MLB #2 - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play."

Paul Naeurt, MLB #96 - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play."

Me - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play...but you can bet I am going to call it." Since I will never make it to the show, the neighborhood play shall exist in my world.

[David B]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
At the 2005 Southern Umpires Camp...

Richie Garcia, MLB Umpire Supervisor - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play or overhead cameras"

Jerry Crawford, MLB #2 - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play."

Paul Naeurt, MLB #96 - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play."

Me - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play...but you can bet I am going to call it." Since I will never make it to the show, the neighborhood play shall exist in my world.

that's what they say, but as we all know that's not what they do.

simply watch a game that they are calling and probably would be four or five calls per game either at 2B or 1B where the foot is pulled before the ball arrives etc.,

And, I can hear the argument - "blue he was off the bag"

"yes coach but he was in the neighborhood"

Instead of blue just call me Mr. Rogers (g)

Thanks
David

mread

[bluezebra]

Richie Garcia, MLB Umpire Supervisor - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play or overhead cameras"

Jerry Crawford, MLB #2 - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play."

Paul Naeurt, MLB #96 - "There is no such thing as the neighborhood play."

Yeah, right. In the Majors and Minors, I've seen outs called when the pivot man gets the ball 2-3 feet on the 1B side of 2B. I've seen "tags" with the glove down, but never touching the runner. That's pro ball, and they all understand it. But they won't admit it.

Bob