Here is a response to a scenario that I had in a game two weeks ago.

A RHP in the set position stepped directly towards first with his foot on the rubber. He was called for a balk. I was told that the only pickoff move that a righthander can make from the set position is to do a jump spin move. For the life of me, I couldn't find that in the rule book and neither could the umpire. This is the response the umpire got back from the coordinating umpire of the association. I'm baffled about this explanation.

Once the RH pitcher lifts the non-pivot foot even a milimeter [whatever the hell that is], he must deliver the pitch. The only way a right-handed pitcher can attempt a pick-off @ 1b without disengaging his pivot foot, is to move his non-pivot foot directly toward first base. Try it, it's almost an impossibility.

Good baserunners are correctly instructed to watch the non-pivot foot of the RH pitcher before attempting to steal or get further off their bag, and if the foot is lifted up, it is part of the beginning of the pitching motion and the pitcher cannot legally attempt a pick off.

Any enlightenment that anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated. Especially since, I have viewed the "See a balk, Call a balk" video numerous times and have had my pitchers work with Major league and minor league pitchers on their delivery, holding on runners and pick-off moves and everyone seems to tell me that as long as the pitcher steps in the direction of the base it is a legal move as the rule states.

rulebook says that pitcher must:
1. turn on his pivot foot
2. lift pivot--jump move (which you described)
3. lift pivot by stepping backward off rubber

all of these must be accompanied with a non-pivot in the direction of the base.

Since in your example the pivot never moved and maintained complete contact with rubber, we have a balk. JMHO

What rulebook is that, and where does it say it?

What page is that on?

bzydadof2,

The move you describe is <b>perfectly legal</b> if done correctly. While it is certainly <b>possible</b> for a RHP to "balk" in attempting this move, it is not terribly difficult to do it properly.

The reason you can not find a rule prohibiting it is that <b>there isn't one</b>! While a "jump spin" move (as well as a "jab step") are considered legal moves and "from the rubber", there is no requirement that a RHP use either one in making a legal pick-off throw to 1B "from the rubber".

I agree with the assertion that "<i>The only way a right-handed pitcher can attempt a pick-off @ 1b without disengaging his pivot foot, is to move his non-pivot foot directly toward first base.</i>" But the assertion that this is "almost an impossibility" or even <b>moderately difficult</b> for that matter, is utter nonsense.

What do the rules say? (from OBR)

"<i>8.01 ...(b) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his entire pivot foot on, or in front of, and in contact with, and not off the end of the pitcher's plate, and his other foot in front of the pitcher's plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, <b>throw to a base</b> or step backward off the pitcher's plate with his pivot foot.</i>

and

"<i>8.01...(c) At any time during the pitcher's preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, <b>he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw</b>. The pitcher shall step "ahead of the throw." A snap throw followed by the step directly toward the base is a balk.</i>"

If this were illegal (which it's not), there would be a proscription defined in Rule 8.05. No such proscription is defined in Rule 8.05.

The assertion that:

"<i>Once the RH pitcher lifts the non-pivot foot even a milimeter [whatever the hell that is], he must deliver the pitch.</i>"

is patently <b>absurd</b>. If it were true, no pitcher would ever be able to throw a pick-off to <b>any</b> base without first legally disengaging. This is clearly not the case.

JM

JM's got it right. Think about what you said bzydadof2... if the free foot moves at all, he has to pitch. What about the RHP pickoff to third? Pivot foot doesn't move, but the free foot does. This is legal, is it not?

largeone,

Unless I'm misreading his post, I believe that statement was made by the "coordinating umpire of the association", <b>not</b> bzydadof2 (with the exception of the [whatever the hell that is] "editorial comment").

Quite understandably, bzydadof2 is baffled by the "explanation" provided by said "coordinating umpire" - who is apparently referencing the Offical CalvinBall Rules, 2004 Edition as a primary source for his explanation.

JM

RHO Pickoff at first
 

You have emphasized my point. I spent 20 minutes during the first discussion and spent another half an hour after the game trying to get the umpire to show me what pickoff could be done with out lifting the non-pivot foot. I was then told that because a RHP's toes are always pointing towards third, that when he pitches his toes will go towards home so when he tries a pickoff move to first without stepping his toe will pass the plane to home plate and is therefore a pitch delivery motion.

My reply was that the ump was trying to rationalize with a very poor excuse and had a poor interpretation of the pitching rules.

I have received of statements from other umps agreeing with that statement. It is perplexing, because I have been trained differently but now the umpire in charge of the association is mandating that this is a balk. It's my players that suffer because I teach them the correct way of keeping runners close and they get called for balks.

Any other information that someone could provide would be useful.

Thanks

bzydadof2,

If you will send me an e-mail (click on the "email icon" at the bottom of one of my posts), I will be happy to provide you with additional information that might prove helpful.

JM

Re: RHO Pickoff at first
 

That's pretty funny. Pure fiction. It sure isn't anywhere in rule 8.

Where do people get this stuff?

Re: RHO Pickoff at first
 

By chance did you happen to ask this official where he got the stuff he has been smoking. It has to be good.

The game I did last night had 1 balk called, which I corrected my partner on after the game. However, had we used this gentlemens criteria for a balk , we would have had at 8 balks. I probably would have had to toss both coaches also. This is absurd.

Hahahaha,
 

bzydadof2:

Do me a big favor.

Have the umpire that made and defended the call e-mail me directly.

Let's ask him to explain it to me personally. (Right, as you all know I would post his e-mail here for cannon fodder).

Bet the guy wouldn't have the guts to send the defense (i.e. put his thoughts down on paper were they can be disected) to any quality umpire group.

I'm with scyguy if we are discussing high school ball. In the NFHS rule book, page 40 & 41, Rule 6, Sec.1,Art.3 is what he is refering to.

"I'm with scyguy if we are discussing high school ball. In the NFHS rule book, page 40 & 41, Rule 6, Sec.1,Art.3 is what he is refering to."

And that makes two of you wrong IF the preponderence of the posters on this thread have read the play and accurately interpreted what was meant by the original post.

Of course I don't know that much about FED as I have only worked it for 35 years.

FED 6-1-3
.....the pitcher may TURN on his pivot foot or LIFT it in a jump turn to step with the non-pivot foot toward a base while throwing or feinting .... or he may LIFT his pivot foot in a step backward.

Now, I have NEVER seen a pitcher who stepped with his non-pivot to first keep his ENTIRE pivot foot in contact with the rubber. This would be such an awkward move, I don't anticipate ever seeing it. If I am visualizing this move correctly, the only way it could be interpreted a balk is if it violated not turning his pivot.

You guys say it's possible - I say it's difficult. One even said that saying it's difficult is absurd.

Go try this without moving your pivot foot, and try not to break your right ankle. It is certainly possible - but it is SURELY difficult. Most of the time if a pitcher actually tries this without a LOT of practice, the pivot comes off, to the FRONT of the base.

Are you saying that IF F1 somehow managed to throw to first from the set position while keeping his pivot foot perfectly still (e.g., still in the hole in front of the rubber, toes pointed to third) you'd balk this?

I think you're (again) reading the book too literally. The reason it doesn't discuss this "move" is because it doesn't happen. F1 always pivots on the pivot foot (or makes a jump turn).

Besides which, I see nothing in the original post that indicates that this is what happened -- only that there wasn't a step-off or a jump turn. I suspect it was the perfectly legal pivot-and-throw move that was in question.

Can we . . .
 

. . . slow down for a second, please.

50 years ago the ONLY way a RH pitcher tossed over to first was to "turn" on his pivot foot and throw to first and was ALWAYS in contact with the pitcher's plate.

By about 1962 coaches had perfected and devloped the "step off" movement. You will not find any reference to an OBR rules change that deals with this. Easy enough since we had always had a legal way to disengage from the pitcher's plate pitchers just started using in and incorporated throwing to first from this movement.

Now we fast forward to the 1980's when college pitcher's started using the "jump turn" to throw to first. It was decided, first by "tradition", that this move was legal and would be considered "in contact" with the plate. No problem.

Then that pesky Greg Maddox (or one will say Jim Porter) invented the jab step where F1 takes the pivot foot and stabs it directly towards third base then turns and throws to first. This move, again through tradition, was placed into common usage at all big boy levels. And, yet again, was considered to be "in contact" with the pitcher's plate.

So now we have a number of ways that a RH pitcher can throw legally to first base. Step off, jump turn, jab step and spin have all been accepted as legal procedures in holding a runner by a RHP.

I have read the original post three times (which means nothing since sometimes I read what I "think" is there rather than what is "actually" there) and the umpire's explanation is just plain wrong.

I'm sure you are right Bob, I don't think I would ever see this either. If a pitcher did do this I would probably walk up to him and see if he broke his ankle.

Bob,

I was reading the exact opposite from the comment - i.e. that they would balk the move if the pitcher did <b>not</b> keep his pivot foot "motionless", toes pointing to 3B. That is, they would balk the (RH) pitcher fot "pivoting" (i.e. "turning") on his "pivot foot" in a pickoff to 1B.

Now I do agree that <b>that</b> would be a very difficult move - probably more likely to tear up your knee than break your ankle.

But I certainly don't think the rule proscribes such a pivot.

JM