JV H.S. Game. I am PU. During the game several close calls. One of which is a runner overunning 1st base and turning to go when the ball got by F3. He changed his mind and went back to 1st only to be tagged by F3 before he got there. BU looks at me and makes no call. I say nothing and he calls me out. Offense is screaming safe, Defense is screaming out ( what a surprise ! ).We consult and he says he didn't see the turn ( what WAS he watching? ). I assure him that the runner made the motion, saw the ball, and realized he couldn't make it. In turning he became eligible to be put out. We seperate and he makes the " out " call. Bottom of 7th inning and this team, which was up by 9 runs, now gives up 10 and loses. I am anxious to leave. My partner is standing between the plate and the rubber watching teams shake hands. I call to him by name twice thinking he is looking for me. He waits til coaches have finished with each other and he waves goodbye to the losing coach. Now Coach has the time to question our call. He politely asks and I tell him I saw play differently than my partner and when he asked for help I gave it. Coach goes ballistic, says that's bu*****t, and starts on me. I start to walk away and my " partner ' starts jawing with him trying to explain rule on runner overunning 1st. When we finally meet up in the parking lot, he tells me I shouldn't pi** off coaches like that. I walked away and left him there still talking to himself. There is a lot more I could share about this guy like him " forgetting " his cup and asking me to do the plate, after I was already dressed for the field, him jawing with the fans on the 1st base fence - during the game in A position, etc.

Questions: Was I wrong to want to get out of there?

Was I wrong to explain my decision once I got stuck there?

Was I wrong to leave my jawing partner ( after I repeatedly tried to get him to leave with me )?

Also please give any insight into what else I should have or should not have done.

Thanks in advance.

1.It amazes me the number of officials that want to stand around to get some type of "good job" or words of praise from the coach. Do your job, give the extra balls to the home coach and go home.

2. The coach asked , you explained. too bad if he did'nt like the explanation. You were professional and truthful about it. It is the coaches personal problem.

3. At that point, NO. If your partner wants to play politician, thats his personal problem.

One thing you failed to do. Call your assignor and ask him never to schedule you with that official again.

I leave the field as fast as practicable, never discussing the game with anyone other than my partner once I exit the fence.

That would be my last game with that guy, ever.

Similar sitch happened to me yesterday, except w/o the fireworks. Home Team down 4-1 going into the Bottom of the 7th. I'm BU. No problems during the game, and home team comes back to win 5-4, all w/ 2 outs in the 7th. As I'm running to meet my PU so we can run off the field, he looks at me and goes "hold on a second, I like to wait until both teams stop shaking hands so I can say good game to both coaches." I stayed with him so I wouldn't leave him by himself, but does this seem as unreasonable to anyone else as it did to me? I mean as he went over to the losing team's coaches who were just standing in the dugout after just losing a heartbreaking conference game, I was just praying that fireworks wouldn't happen. What would everyone else have done here?

Further, change the sitch for a second..what if some problem had come up during the game, and your PU wanted to do the same thing? What then, because I obviously don't want to leave my partner, but I don't want to be sticking around either!

I work the plate, I'm walking off the field after the game's over. If my partner wants to stick around, he'll realize soon enough I didn't stay and wait for him.

I don't expect praise after a game, nor do I want to put myself in a position like this.

Yep,
 

Just as with Rich, when I am PU I usually roll the balls towards the home dugout and walk from the field.

I do not hang around looking for praise.

When I am the BU I head to my partner . . . if he selects to hang around (we all know those guys) I will walk off the field alone.

Gents,
Thank you very much for your replies.
I hesitate to call my assignor, because I am new in THIS association. I switched because of geography this year, and I don't want to start out causing grief. However, I do not want to work with him again, and the only way that is going to happen is to tell my assignor why. How do most assignors respond to this kind of feedback - especially from the new guy?
Thanks again for the feedback. I have always had my partner's back in every situation, and I didn't like leaving him there. It was most uncomfortable. And I don't want to get the reputation ( when he tells his side of the story that I left him ) that I am not a team guy.
In any event thanks for the feedback.

[Edited by officialtony on Apr 14th, 2005 at 03:33 PM]

Amazing verbage of the week award!

Bye! Bye! See Ya! So long! Thanks for having me! Have a nice day! barf...

Go to your assignor, board, whatever. If your association has a greivance commitee, that is the place to go.

I wouldn't have given him the time of day. I would have just gone to my car and started to undress. If he wants to talk now, he can talk to the clouds or the sun, but he is not talking to me.


I know SMITTY and I have worked with him!!!!

Tony, you are in a tough crack. First, to your questions:

No, you were not wrong to want to get gone. Like Tee, as PU I'm firing the leftovers at the home dugout and moving "with a purpose" toward the gate. If I haven't already seen him heading the same way, I'll look back over my shoulder to make sure he's not hung up somehow, but if anyone wants to complement me, they'll do it while I'm moving or come see me in the parking lot. As BU, I'm moving with the same purpose directly from my last position to the same gate my partner is headed for, with the same over-the-shoulder look if PU isn't at the gate ahead of me. Fortunately, I'm senior enough that if I have a partner who seems tempted to linger, I can give him the "giddyapgo" signal to get the heck out of Dodge. Everyone more senior than I will be at the gate ahead of me, and I move pretty fast; sorta speaks to the issue, don't it? I appreciate that you are not so empowered.

BTW, we do NOT watch the handshake ritual, much less participate in it; and "waving" bye-bye at a losing coach is a potential disciplinary offense where I work. Taunting, don'tcha know?

No, you were not wrong to answer the coaches' inquiry, once you found yourself trapped. In general, I believe people ought not ask questions if they don't want to hear the answers. Coach has a personal problem, as someone else wrote; esp. as YOU didn't make the call: you told BU what you had, and he went with it.

If my partner wants to stand in the middle of the parking lot jawwing, he's gonna do it to my back: I'm on the way to the "locker room" [my car]. He can babble all he wants as I'm changing. Your obligation to have his back [physically] ends at the gate.

You gotta talk to your assignor or some major big dog in your assn. Not so much to get this guy on your avoid list [a consumation devoutly to be wished], as to be sure of what the norms are in your area. Is hanging around to jaw & wave 'bye at the losers the accepted pratice in your association [I doubt it]? Does Bozo make a habit of this? What do THEY recomend that you do about it? Phrase it in terms of your concern for a major stink-storm brewing, esp. w/ the bye-bye, and I bet dollars to donuts they will be receptive and helpful.

Pre-game with a new or unfamiliar partner: "Hey man, I'm outta here right after the last out."

All;

A couple of points based on the responses that I read:

1. As an assignor, I got a number of complaints from coaches, especially college coaches, about umpires who roll the balls somewhere after the game, or who leave the balls on the plate. They consider this very disprespectful. They had the decency and common courtesy to assign someone to place each and every one of those balls in your hand or outstretched mask. They expect the same courtesy in return. Give the balls to the assigned ball boy or place them in the game ball box or bucket.

(I know that this may not apply to youth leagues of even low level high school. However, if you want to move up the food chain to NCAA, be advised that this is something that coaches are noticing.)

2. It is generally a waste of time or worse to ask the commissioner not to assign you with certain umpires. However, if you don't want to work with certain umpires, just be obnoxious and standoffish when you work with them. THEY will then ask the assignor not to work with YOU. This only works to your benefit if you are a big dog in your group.

Peter

Hahahaha,
 

PO noted:

"Give the balls to the assigned ball boy or place them in the game ball box or bucket.

(I know that this may not apply to youth leagues of even low level high school. However, if you want to move up the food chain to NCAA, be advised that this is something that coaches are noticing.)"

---------------------------------------------------
Wrong, oh wise one.

I guess all high school baseball in Oregon is "low level" as I have not worked a game in decades that had a bat boy.

I do not enter the home team dugout after the game. Why would I place myself in a potential terrible situation?

Guys, NEVER enter a dugout after a game (unless it is the only exit from the field). Don't set yourself up to fail.

If it is easy to hand the balls to an assistant rat . . . do that -- if not, just roll them towards the bench.

Even Communists can get away with that.

----

BTW Peter, I just called my assignor (he was not that thrilled that I called him a 6:30 am PDT) and asked him that during the last 10 years of assigning (he does both college and high shcool and the college wood bat summer leage and all Legion A and AAA assigning) just how many calls he has had from coaches complaining about how an umpire returned the game balls?

His answer, "hurmp, you woke me up for THAT, never, none, it has never happened."

Must be a geographical issue.

[Edited by Tim C on Apr 15th, 2005 at 09:33 AM]

Re: Hahahaha,
 

It is more than a geographical issue. This has been an issue in MLB and minor league ball. More than one MLB umpire has told stories of coaches accusing the umpires of stealing the baseballs. (These complaints go to supervisors.) Umpires from days long gone by have tales to tell about accountablity of baseballs at the highest levels. Placing them in someone's hand shows common courtesy and covers your a$$. (Alternatively, some colleges have a place in the umpires dressing room to leave the balls, towels, etc. Just this week after a game, the game manager picked up the stuff in the locker room from us umpires at the University of Delaware.)

Your assignor was probably half asleep. If the issue of baseballs comes up even in rich Fairfax County, VA - it is definitely coming up other places.

Who said anything about going in the dugout. The ball boy/bat boy is outside the dugout after the game just like everybody else.

Finally, you wrote:

"guess all high school baseball in Oregon is "low level" as I have not worked a game in decades that had a bat boy."

Every college and most of the high school games that I work has someone in charge of the balls (and getting me drinks, etc.) He introduces himself to me before the game and I motion to him when I need more balls. If you do not have this in your leagues, you are culturally inferior, may I say - low level.

Peter

Then we are low level
 

Never during a high school season have we had ANYONE assigned to get us drinks and handle balls. I feel you may be a little jaded.

You wrote, " . . . place them in the game ball box" again you being in the Big Time East Coast that box maybe somewhere other than the dugout . . . in my games that box is ALWAYS located in the home team dugout. Again we are inferior to your East Coast Guys.

Gee Peter, you don't think usinn' out here in the west have not read umpire war stories where umpires steal balls and trade them for taxi rides, dinner or sex.

Al Clark made a living of it . . . again we might have higher expectations of our umpires (non-union guys) and trust them to roll the balls to dugout or hand them to an assistant rat.

And I really apprecate being low level -- kinda ruins your issue that I am a "Big Dog", huh?

As always PO I enjoy reading your work.



[Edited by Tim C on Apr 15th, 2005 at 04:02 PM]

Re: Hahahaha,
 

Now Tim, how the hell am I going to do that. Assistant rats don't exist.

Re: Then we are low level
 

Interesting.

I, too, can't remember ever having a ball or bat boy.

But at one field I work, there is one kid, assigned by the concession stand, who's job it is to go from field to field asking the umpires if they would like water (or gatorade). Without fail, 100% of the time (at this field), SOMEONE is doing this. A nice touch by field admin, I must admit.

Tim C: I work HS on the East Coast (big metro area) and we neither have bat/ball boys, nor umpire valets. I guess we just aren't cultured either (please don't lump an entire region based on some inane comments from one guy).
I usually roll the balls towards the home bench and exit ASAP. However, the other day at my (middle level) varsity game the home (losing) coach was right near me doing the hand-shake thing. Since he was just at home plate, I attempted to hand him the two game balls, and he practically slapped them out of my grip. So, no more acts of courtesy on my part in future. By the way, this was not a reaction to any displeasure of my umpiring (I did not hear one peep from either coach about any pitch or call for seven innings).

Also, I work quite a bit with college guys (Legion, Men's and some HS). They roll the balls and scram.

Who said anything about handing balls to a head coach? That's an insult. That's what he has a ball boy for. You insulted his status by giving him the balls.

There is a reason that many folks do not make it into NCAA and it usually has nothing to do with their strike zone and safe/out judgement. It has everything to do with little niceties.

BTW, in the rare cases where I do men's leagues and legion ball, I dump the balls and get the he!! out of there. The NCAA crowd and some high schools are more cultured and they expect their umpires to behave the same way. I was just trying to educate those that want to move to the next level. If you love low level ball, ignore my posts.

And no, I never stay around and solicit accolades. Unless the coach says something to me, I say nothing to him and I'll bet I spend no more than 5-10 seconds handing the balls to a ball boy or putting them in the ball bucket.

Peter

Talk to your assignor about the post-game procedures for your association. Don't bring up his name or anything off the bat. Just metion that you have noticed that some guys stick around after the game, and is their anything to that? I have worked in previous associations where it was requested when the teams had a history together.

A water boy at the ballgame? Up here in northern Michigan the water would freeze by the time it got to the umps. Coffee for defrosting is all I ask. And you can't hand balls back if they're still stuck in a snowbank in the outfield!

are you blueump because of the color of your shirt or the color of your skin?

Wow,
I didn't know handing the balls to the coach(es) was an insult. I am serious. That is NOT sarcasm. I thought it was a nice gesture to show respect to him. From now on it is into the ball bucket if I can reach it outside the dugout or roll 'em into the dugout.
I don't need any new ways to pi** off a coach. They find ways on there own for 7 innings.

[Edited by officialtony on Apr 15th, 2005 at 04:00 PM]

I bring my own water to the game. That way I keep out of dugouts. I roll the balls to the dugout, give them to a Coach (head or assistant), tossed them in a bucket, dropped them at home plate and sometimes I take them home in error (usually happens during a rain delay and the game is called) handed them to a score keeper. Never knew there was proper etiquette concerning baseballs.

As far as HS goes, we simply don't have bat/ball boys here, and don't kiss up to coaches and put
them on such a pedestal. My bad if I actually insulted one.
While professionalism, game management, and demeanor is certainly required of a college umpire, one's bread and butter (reputation) is based more on plate work and judgment than if you find a ball boy after the game. Well, at least in this area of the country. "That Blue sucked at calling balls and strikes, but he sure knew what to nicely do with the baseballs after the game."

I've seen NCAA head coaches putting the lines down, for crying out loud.

But I don't roll the balls anywhere, myself. I'm not fond of that. Instead, I hand the balls to one of the last players to come out of the dugout to shake hands.

We did have service on the field working some D-III stuff the other week. College girls assigned to bring us Gatorade, gum, and seeds if we wanted it. They came out at the end of the 3rd and 6th each game.

I don't expect it, though. Most often there's not a drink to be found unless you go into a dugout looking for one.

I remember my first HS JV game in 1998. As I was getting low on baseballs, I looked over at the home dugout and held up 3 fingers. I was expecting that since I was working "big boy" ball that a student manager would come out with some baseballs. After a couple more motions, I finally had to ask loudly "I need some more baseballs". We don't have attendants in NC although we have one 3A school that has a great AD who checks on us a couple of times a game for water and such.

I don't roll the balls toward the dugout. Sometimes the coaches leave a box outside of the dugout for us to get balls out of during the game and I'll place them back in there as we leave. Other times I hand them to a bench warmer or assistant coach who is milling around outside the dugout after the game. If none of the above happens, I place them outside of the dugout near the entrance.

For some reason, few if any of the high schools where I work have field entrances away from the dugouts. Most entrances are not through the dugout proper, but next to them.

I haven't stuck around for a handshake since 1991 (my rookie season) when a partner of mine who worked FED and NCAA tongue lashed me for doing so. If you work with me and want to stick around, fine but I'll see you in the lot.

Lawrence