I realize it's pre-season but this past Saturday, Tom Seaver (a Met Color Commentator) was very vehement in his comments about the new Cream Color Shirts worn by the PRO umpires. He stated that this is very distracting to F1 and if he were pitching today he wouldn't like it.

I can see it now, hey Blue, please remove your shirt as it is distracting.

Your thoughts as always

Pete Booth

I hate the cream colored shirts too. However, I do not mind the black shirts with the sage gray slacks. Still can't beat the heather gray slacks and dark navy blue shirts. Those look the sharpest to me.

OK, so . . . .
 

No one LIKES change . . . I remember a meeting when Seattle decided to go from Elbeco, Light Blue shirts (button) to dark blue . . . . cry, cry, cry.

I was "surprised" to see Tim McClellen wear a white whirt when doing the dish but remember, MLB is trying to take their game back (according to Dale Scott the tradition of the plate guy wearing what he wants and the BU's to wear similar to each other BU is a thing of the past).

I don't care what they wear . . . I no longer think that all of us "cattle" need to follow the lead. Cream, White, Black, Sage "Grey" (never heard of that color till MLB) and it is up to all announcers to complain about something of which they don't understand.

I am more interested in the quality of the umpiring this year as compared to last. I would hope it continues to improve.

A "Met Color Commentator", huh? That's an oxymoron if ever I've heard one! (grin)

I think Mr Seaver is probably struggling for some color to comment upon, and so chose "white" (or cream) instead! (BIG grin)

There is NO WAY this should be distracting to the pitcher. He should be focused instead on the catcher, the catcher's glove, and the zone which normally frames the catcher's chest protector. The umpire and his cream shirt are outside of that area of focus. We are talking about MLB pitchers here, not little kids.

Think of all the noise, color and distractions that exist around an MLB home plate anyway! Some diamonds even have toughened glass windows behind the plate area, presumably protecting radar guns, cameras and pitch tracking devices. Imagine the reflections these could cause! We've even got UmpCam and CatcherCam to distract the pitcher, so what's a plain cream shirt in the slot going to hurt? After all, the pitcher isn't trying to see a white ball coming out of that block of color. If anything it might make the catcher's glove stand out BETTER as a target!

Nah! This is just a case of too little to say and too much time to say it in! (BIG grin)

Cheers,

I have it via a reliable source that the MLB umpires' uniforms are going to change yet again this year. They will be wearing a new color called "gray-camouflage"...the umpires will NEVER be seen. ;)

Blue, white, cream, what's next?
 

I did hear one story on ESPN the other night which kind of made sense:

I think it was ESPN2 which had a whole segment on the white/creme shirts making it harder for the SS/2B and the outfielders to pick up the ball coming off the bat.

They had some snapshots and video footage which showed their case; however, I won't give it much merit until I hear it from the players.

I haven't heard one thing negative from any of the players.

They are the ones who have to deal with it.

Thanks
David

The problem I see with the cream color shirt is a line drive back to pitcher. How is he going to pick-up the ball off a shirt that is practically the same color as the ball. I don't think it will distract him from pitching just fielding.

blue_18

Hmmmmm,
 

For over 50 years plate umpires wore white shirts.

For his entire career Lee Weyer wore a white chest protector.

It was NOT a problem then . . . why would it be now?

Simple: we over analyze EVERYTHING in this day-and-time.

2 yrs. ago in a LL game (I understand the talent difference) an umpire on a very hot day wore a white towel around his neck to keep him cool, the batter hit a playable line drive back to the pitcher who couldn't see the ball because of the towel. The pitcher luckily was only knocked unconscious and not killed. So you decide what you will, but as for me I will NEVER wear anything that even remotelly ressembles the color of the ball behind the plate!

OBR 1.11(b)(2). Every team has a white uniform that is worn in slightly fewer than half their games. It had been that way for 125 years or more. It's never been a problem. Now the umpires have an off-white shirt.

I'm with Tee on this one. We should get rid of/refuse to adopt the new WUA colors because they're ugly, not because of ball vision concerns.

P-Sz

Given how long most balls are used in youth games, I'd think white would be a contrasting color to wear -- certainly more so than the color of our skins -- especially when we get covered with the dust of the field on a hot day.

It's Not The Shirt But The Man Inside
 

For what it's worth I umpire with an association on Long Island that wears white shirts and has done so for quite a number of the 50+ years we have been in existence. I have never heard a complaint that we obscured anyone. We officiate everything from Little League to Connie Mack Regionals. Jim Simms/Long Island, NY

Even though I do not like the Cream shirts I still cannot follow the argument of some of the posts. You argue that the white color will make it hard to see the ball. Is it me or do we not realize that every major league team has a completely white uniform. That has never been a problem.

I agree Bob but you'll find that the thin minded morons who believe they are immortal and that solar heat does not affect them will jump all over you. Regardless, White wears white and Supermen can wear black in the noonday sun and I fully protect his right to do so.

How and why are you digging up threads that are 4 years old?

Consider multiple umpires but a true issue with three or four man schemes - creme or white shirts on the base umpires...

- this is more of a problem with a runner on and an umpire standing off the pitcher's shoulder. He will be looking at a large white mass directly behind the release point. I wouldn't want to be looking at that and I would not want my partner standing there when I'm watching the delivery.

[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Dec 13th, 2005 at 12:32 AM]

They are also smart enough not too stand where they will hinder the player's or umpire's vision.

I'm not going to wate the time, but I can't recall too many games this past season with base umpires in the cremes. I watched plenty of games and went to a few different parks but never actually saw them in person. Thanks to ESPN, I know they exist but they seem to appear infrequently.

If you want to wear creme and your organization permits it, have a go at it. Mine doesn't and I haven't melted yet.

Those same guys that can't do the bases in a light blue shirt will wear a navy blue golf shirt for 18 holes in 90 degree weather though! :)

Large,

More than likely, it's because he's exhausted his equipment inventory list, and now has nothing of value to add. It's a shame too, because if he was any kind of umpire, regardless of level worked, or experience, he could have learned quite a lot from this forum.


Tim

Re: Hmmmmm,
 

Tim,
50 years ago the games were not played under the lights. That is when I have been told that there is a major problem. In our conference we have been instructed that while we are allowed to wear the cream shirt it is for day use only.

Re: Re: Hmmmmm,
 

That doesn't make sense to me. What is the logic behind that?

Yeah, the PU's shirt is about as distracting to F1 as F1's white sleeve is to B1. If you are focusing on what you should be, none of this comes into play.

Hey how about fluorescent green shirts with battery powered LED's on the back stating what position you are working! :D

they appeared zero times the past season, zero the season before that

To paraphrase Tee: Stick to umpiring.

A white ball coming out of a white shirt background is very difficlut to see.

Fielders have problems with white backgrounds - most often F3 on throws, but sometimes the other infielders on line drives.

From the pitcher's perspective, if you want to stand 52 feet or so from a batter who might hit a screaming line drive right at you - and it's coming out of a white background - go right ahead. See how much fun it is.

Hitters have problems too, that's why there are batter's eyes.

As for the "old timers" in white shirts, they also wore dark plate coats and most often a "raft" protector that covered up the white.

There's a ML catcher that wears a gray chest protector. When the CF camera is showing the pitch, please note that the ball is somewhat more difficult to see as it moves into that background.

And lastly, do you really think a pitcher with any lick of sense is going to tell the umpire that he's a distraction?

Re: Re: Re: Hmmmmm,
 

The logic that was handed down to me was that at night the pitcher, SS and 2nd baseman, have a much harder time picking up the ball of the bat. Wether or not it is true, I don't know. I just know that if the boss man says do it this way that's the way it gets done.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmmmm,
 

Well why can't you wear cream at night? That is the part I don't understand.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmmmm,
 

Like I meant to say, the ligher colored shirt blends with the color of the ball especially at night which makes it harder to see.

Pitchers and fielders don't b*tch when their catchers whear white uniforms and light gray chest protectors, but it is a distraction when an umpire, standing behind the catcher wears a cream colored shirt.

Typical Rat bullsh*t.

Typical know-it-all bull****.

The white uniform doesn't mean a thing. It's either covered (for a catcher) or the throw isn't coming out of the shirt. The white uniform is not relavant to the discussion.

I've only seen the one gray catcher's chest protector in all my years around the game. It's not like it's a common thing that you could use to dismiss an argument.

Why did you ignore the comments from umpires that indicate there might be problems?

How was playing the outfield? If you were a pitcher or an infielder you'd know about white backgrounds.

I'll break my self-imposed ban on replying to your posts this one time. First, I played F3 in high school and college.

Second, I made a point to keep count of light gray catcher protectors in the majors last year and counted 5. And I didn't see all the teams play. It was more likely on any given day for a catcher to be wearing a light colored protector than a plate ump to be wearing a cream colored shirt.

Third, typical Rat-no-nothing, the b*tch isn't about the throw, it's about the hit and on a hit the background provided by the catcher is more in line than that provided by the umpire.

Fourth, I've not heard an umpire experienced with the issue state that there is a problem. On the contrary, I've heard an ML umpire say the issue is horsesh*t.

Now take the last word, as if anyone could stop you.

Just to clarify
 

The point that I was trying to make was not whether or not I agreed with the ruling from my superiors, it is simply this is what I have been instructed to do and so I will do it. I personally think that it is just another thing for the rats to take hold of and gnaw on.

Come on Rich, we've been down this road before. Keep the LL stuff in the LL world, okay? Many of your HS, NCAA and MLB wear white (yeah, some have pinstripes or the like) and this "white shirt" crap is just that - CRAP! I have never heard a player complain about a white shirt. Only coaches complain about them because it's another way to pi$$ off everyone. So go back to the dugout coach!

Originally posted by GarthB


<i>I'll break my self-imposed ban on replying to your posts this one time. First, I played F3 in high school and college.</i>

OK

<i>Second, I made a point to keep count of light gray catcher protectors in the majors last year and counted 5. And I didn't see all the teams play. It was more likely on any given day for a catcher to be wearing a light colored protector than a plate ump to be wearing a cream colored shirt.</i>

And I only saw 1

<i>Third, typical Rat-no-nothing, the b*tch isn't about the throw, it's about the hit and on a hit the background provided by the catcher is more in line than that provided by the umpire.</i>

Exactly what I was saying. Or in your zeal to trash my opinion did you purposely ignore my comments that said:

"A white ball coming out of a white shirt background is very difficlut to see."

and

"From the pitcher's perspective, if you want to stand 52 feet or so from a batter who might hit a screaming line drive right at you - and it's coming out of a white background - go right ahead. See how much fun it is."

My other comment

"Fielders have problems with white backgrounds - most often F3 on throws, but sometimes the other infielders on line drives."

was in reference to hits/throws with the crowd as a background, which I could have made more clear.


<i>Fourth, I've not heard an umpire experienced with the issue state that there is a problem.</i>

Go back and read the posts by DavidB, Blue_18, Windy, and umpbrian. I'm not the only one here that thinks it could be a problem.

<i>On the contrary, I've heard an ML umpire say the issue is horsesh*t.</i>

You aren't asking the right folks then. The umpire is in the shirt looking out - not looking in at the shirt. And what umpire would admit he's a problem anyhow?

Have a nice day.

Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate that you either didn't take the time to understand the issue or you can't.

The manager gamesmanship you referenced is about pitcher's LONG SLEEVE UNDERshirts distracting the batter. The manager does the complaining so the batter won't get a pitch in the ear. And if it is NOT distracting, why does LL and FED ban white and gray and NCAA ban white? The distraction IS an issue.

Why are batter's eyes required or recommented (depending on the rules)? Because having a white background makes it more difficiult to see the ball.

A white background IS an issue, whether you like it or not, and an umpire's white shirt can mask a line drive.

As to players, Pete Booth posted that Tom Seaver complained. He has "just a bit" of experience on the mound. And, at a game, no player or coach is going to complain to the umpire about the umpire's shirt, even if he really wants to. It's not a smart thing to do, as you and Garth are demonstrating.

Well,
 

Me thinks some protest too much . . .

If the PU is wearing creme there is very little actually visable from the infield side.

If the PU is wearing Light Blue there could also be a problem as baseballs, in my games, seldom stay pristine.

If the PU works Davis he is far back and mostly blocked by F2, if he is working heel-to-toe he would be leaning slightly forward -- end result as the small amount of creme exposed would make no difference.

I think the protestors are getting waaay involved in something that no one else thinks is even an issue.

OK, of course, all should be given their respect for the posts they make in this "give-an-ump a hug" day and age.

I think this thread is at least funny . . . something that has been missing here for some time.

Tee

What about catchers that wear light,light grey chestprotector and shin guards (I believe one of the LA Dodgers wears that) - I gotta believe it is more difficult for the infielders to pick the ball up against a light grey background than a creme shirt (which is most covered by F2 anyways).

As do the Padres catchers when in their road uniforms. Grey mask, CP, and shin guards. Like Tee said, Lee Weyer wore a white chest protector with his shirt mostly unbuttoned, as well as with his plate coat.

The color of the umpire's shirt has no practical bearing on screening a line drive. Prior to light blue, umpires wore white for many years. And while the balloon protector hid most of the shirt for American League umps, the NL used the inside protector, and all the white showed.

I don't believe that players give a rat's a$$ (pun intended) what color shirt the umpire is wearing.

Re: Well,
 

Careful, Tee. You're being logical and apparently you don't agree with whomever it is that Rats consider experts on this...apparently a couple of amateur umpires and a hasbeen Rat.

back in mike piazza's dodger days he wore the grey, and tim mccarver said he looked like a galvanized trash can.

Mmmmm,
 

I am surprised that this thread has gone this far without a Joe Pepitone reference.

It would be just as valuable as the Seaver statement.

Tee

Well no matter what is said, coaches will complain and in this case, they have a rule to back them. I still think that it is a bunch of BS but then Rich, I never took a pitch in the ear even when F1 wore white. I learned how to focus on my target - a sphere flying toward me at over 90 mph. Man, do I miss those days!

The only complaint that I ever heard my son make (HS F1) was when the PU wears a red shirt. He says that he has to focus a little more for a few minutes until he gets used to the color. It never seemed to affect his pitching or fielding. When I asked him about the cream or other colors, my son said that he had no problem with them. He also mentioned that none of the other players ever complained about umpire colors.

Re: Just to clarify
 

That was a very Princess TT like statement...

[Edited by jumpmaster on Dec 16th, 2005 at 07:44 PM]

If SS and 2B are having problems picking up a baseball off the bat because PU is wearing cream let them PLAY the outfied, Rich. All they have to worry about out THERE is a white-yellow ball coming out of white-yellow lights! Except day games when it's coming out of the sun.

Geesh. Get Winter over with and let the games begin!

Re: Re: Just to clarify
 

You should know, you two have been seeing a lot of each other lately.

Say, remember when Joe Pepitone put that kernel of popcorn in his..........? There ya go.

Perhaps we should take Charlie Finley's
idea for fluorescent-colored baseballs and
run with it. Would that not solve this
major problem ?

It's about the pitcher. Seaver started it. But what's he know?