This happened friday night at a high school baseball game in NC.
Team A is beating Team B 10-2 in the bottom of 5th.
Player from Team A hits a 2 run shot over the left field fence. All his teammates come out on the field to congratulate him. The umpire ejects every single player from Team A for coming out of the dugout. Therefore Team B wins by forfeit. There was no taunting or trash talking by Team A, just some high fives.
This is a new rule the NCHSAA has put into place this season. Does any other states have this silly rule and is it enforced by the umpires.

Here in Michigan, we allow teams to come to the plate to congratulate a home run hitter. No interference is allowed and players respect that. Don't think I could call a game a forfeit because of a stupid rule like that.

This is not a new rule, but it is a 2005 FED Point of Emphasis to remind players and coaches that players should not leave the dugout to "congratulate a teammate while the ball is alive." The rule that applies is the one that requires players to wear helments when in live ball territory. The proper response would be a team warning and ejections on the next occassion. However, the emphasis is for when the "ball is alive" and it's not after a home run.

EXACTLY. It's amazing how many so-called umpires don't realize that the ball is DEAD when it leaves the playing field.

Did the the NCHSAA get permission from FED to make this silly rule?

Bob

I don't think NCHSAA made this rule. I think it was an OOO going berserk on his mis-interpretation of a FED point of emphasis.

Y'all
 

Might think the POE is easy but wait:

"The Oregon Federation Rules Honcho" taught at two of the three rules clinics this season that teams were to stay in the dugout.

This of course was corrected when an umpire who posts on a private umpire internet group brought the issue up to his international umpire group. The USA FED umpires on that group strongly mentioned that the Oregon guy was just wrong.

I will say this:

For those of you that work soccer there was a previous POE in that rule book. It was written to eliminate activities after a goal was scored (i.e. shirts being taken off and organized celebrations). Soccer officials were given the same type order to control demonstrations. When FED decided officials did not do enough FED wrote a rule.

As umpires we are maybe two years max away from having a rule that restricts the actions of players after a home run.

10 Run Rule?
 

Does NC have a ten run rule?

This is not a rule
 

We do try to follow the guidelines of keeping all players in the dugouts during a live ball.

Every year at the first of the season we have to enforce it becuase duing the summer they must let players do whatever they want and we have to remind them.

We allow teams to come out and congratulate the players but it must be right in front of the dugout and must be quick, and during a dead ball.

But the bottom line is whether the ball is dead or live.

Following a HR the ball is dead. Also, in our state we are required to give a team warning and then an ejection.

And then, with a two run homer to end the game what's the PU doing staying around home.

Once he touches I'm at the truck.

Thanks
David

After a home run (out of the yard) the ball is dead. Players may come out of the dugout to congratulate the batter. No warnings, no ejections. Just make sure you see the runner touch the plate - perhaps by telling the congratulators "Let him touch - let me see him touch".

Live ball, different story. but you all know that....

But we must be aware of the other portion of the POE this year. FED is concerned about the behavior of the players coming out of the dugout. Regardless of the status of the ball, they must still behave appropriately. There have been many incidents in which the "congratulations" have turned to taunting of the opposing players.

This is what underlies Tee's warning. If this problem persists, FED will, as they threaten in the POE use "legislation" (read: rule) to keep them in the dugout even during a deadball. Guaranteed.

Just becuase the ball is dead, the PU can't turn a blind eye to what is going on.

When Bill Mazeroski hit that home run in the bottom of the ninth inning to win the seventh game of the 1960 World Series, the rest of the Pirates stood surrounding home plate to greet him.

The ump should have ejected all those Pirates and forfeited the game to the Yankees.

Garth, I didn't address the "extra-curricular" activities possible because they were not mentioned in the original thread. Matter of fact, it said there was no trash talk - only high-fives. Obviously, we need to be aware of unsportsmanlike activity at ALL times.

Greymule - good one!

Can't eject during action. Once Maz scored, the game was over. Nothing to forfeit (although I like the thought).

Re: 10 Run Rule?
 

Yes. This was a walkoff HR in NC.

[Edited by DG on Mar 14th, 2005 at 08:21 PM]

Oh my God! Very large cojones! Way to stick to book blue!

Wrong,
 

At least correctness was served.

http://www.hickoryrecord.com/servlet...81630817&path=

The call was in error and the State corrected it.

As I posted above even state interpreters can misstate the rule and cause great problems.

For those of you who had lost track of the ruling:

The original umpire had ejected players for a celebration during a DEAD BALL and that is not of what the POE speaks.

The article states it was ruled "no contest, play the game over"??? Did I read that correctly? Wow, they still got screwed, just not as bad.

Re: Wrong,
 

The State did not correct it. They chickened out. Since the gross misinterpretation of the rule came on a dead ball, West Caldwell should have been declared the winner, 10-2.

Bob

Well,
 

Bob whatever you think.

-sigh-

Re: Re: Wrong,
 

The article said the HR made it 10-2, but the original post said the score was 10-2 when the HR was hit. If the post was correct the final score should have been 12-2 and game over on the 10 run rule.

[Edited by DG on Mar 19th, 2005 at 03:24 PM]

Re: Re: Re: Wrong,
 

Exactly, it would have ended it per the original post. To me the fair thing would have been to pick it back up from the spot of the home run as this really sounds like a protest situation. Not sure if NC allows protests but, to any extent, justice was not fully served here.

Personally, I keep the kids off the dirt around home plate, I give the catcher a ball and tell him to take it to the pitcher and then let them have their celebration of the HR as long as no one does anyting directed at the other team.

Re: Well,
 

Tim,
What were you smoking when you made that response? The state didn't correct anything. The umpire made the wrong call, period. The correct thing to do would be to replay the game from 10-2 when the "forfeit" occured.

They completely chickened out.

What I said:
 

Kaliix:

Because in my opinion when an official makes this much of a gross error I believe that in fairness the game should be replayed.

It is my opinion and that will not change.

1..I misread the original post. The home run should have stood, making the score 12-2, and the 10-run rule put into effect. Game over.

2..To replay the game is a gross misjustice to West Caldwell. To replay the game from the point of the misinterpretation is also an injustice.

Bob

Re: What I said:
 

Tee:
Because he, in all probability, completely FUBAR'd the rest of the game?

O/W why not "fix" the error, which in this case would be BZ's outcome: 12-2, game over, W. Caldwell wins/ 10-run Rule.

Not arguing/ seeking to persuade: just askin'.

---Carter

Am I reading the same article as everyone else?

To directly quote the article "When a bunch of the Warriors greeted Scott Hodge at home plate after his two-run home run in the fifth put them ahead 10-2, all but three members of the team were disqualified under a national high school rule that says:..."

The HR Hodge hit put them ahead 10-2, then all but three players were disqualified.

The umpire screwed the pooch big time. He applied the rule incorrectly. Why is it so hard to fathom that the his error should be corrected and the game played from that point, with West Caldwell up 10-2?

Tim, thanks for responding. I respect you opinion, I just wholeheartedly disagree with it.

The original poster said the score was 10-2 when the HR was hit and the newspaper said the HR made the score 10-2 so I don't know which is right. But the best way to fix this error would be to play from the time of the error, game over if the HR made it 12-2, game continues if the HR made the score 10-2.

W. Caldwell is a 2A school less than a half hour away from S. Caldwell, a 4A school. So this was a non-conference game, and replaying it might not fit into future plans for either team.

All of these reasons that have been listed are in regards to a live ball. This is not a live ball situation. The ball is not in play. If a ball goes out of the field of play (i.e. in the stands, dugout, or over the fence) it is a dead ball. So all of those rules should be ruled out. If there is a rule in your association about leaving the dugout then there is nothin to discuss, they left the dugout and you took to appropriate action. But this has nothing to do with a live ball and sometimes a warning will suffice. The umpires are not supposed to affect the game, they are supposed to officiate it. Had the umpires not been there, a different team would have won with no objection. A 10-2 ballgame is a game that should just end on its own.

i don't think that it was the size of his balls but the lack of the size of his brain. around where i umpire there is a team that we call that rule for. this team will walk out and congradulate anyone for making any decent play pretty much, homeruns, sacs, rbi's and so forth. the umpires around the area tend to tell the players that the dirt is off limits or to hold back and let him touch the plate in view of everyone.

Welcome to the forum, but I can't help but wonder why your first post was about a 3.5 month old subject?

Maybe he wants to know who won the replay?

-LL

For TNBlu
 

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