Request some opinions and/or rulings. Recently calling High School scrimmage, getting ready for the season. Situation is no runners, 3-1 count to batter, pitch in dirt bounces off catchers shin gear/guard and rolls a few feet up first base line. Batter-runner starts toward first and a couple steps out of the box reaches down grabs baseball and turns and hands ball to catcher before proceeding to first. After that half inning my partner ( I had plate) says That the batter-runner should have been out for touching a live ball/interferance.
Now admittedly when reading FED rulebook not everything is crystal clear but I did find the actual rule/definition for interference: the act by the team at bat that interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play.
Now to borrow a term from the OBR book, the Batter Runner is not "In Jeopardy" as he has earned the right to advance to first without a play being made, due to receiving four balls.

I can't find a reference to a offensive team member touching a live ball just interference. Now I agree with my partner that in most situations a member of the offense touches ball I would have interference, balls dead and someone is out. But I just don't see this as meeting any of the definitions.

I just want to get it right so any help appreciatted.

Oh yeah, did I mention that that walk turned into the winning run in extra innings?

Thanks from San Diego
Butch

To interfere, there must be a (potential) play. There wsa no potential play here. I'd let it go.

Consider interference as not only being "with whom", but also "with what."

With what did the B/R interfere? What was the catcher going to do with the ball...throw it back to the pitcher?

No inteference. Your partner is trying waaaaaaaay too hard.

If the batter-runner walks to 1st base and turns past the bag or steps off in any way, is he eligible to be put out if he is tagged? It was my understanding ( in NFHS )that on a walk that is not intentional, this is a live ball and the runner is guaranteed to acquire 1st base without danger of being put out - but not past it. If so, there could be a potential play if the catcher elects to throw the ball to F3. Does this change the call by PU?

Just curious what call could or should be made.

Glad to hear anyones response but TimC.

Thanks.

Let's review the facts. The B/R, after ball four, with no runners on, picks up the ball and BEFORE he heads to first, he hands it to the catcher.

Now then, is there a concern that the catcher, who is now holding the ball, can't throw to first should the batter runner, who is on his way to first, decide to go, bluff to go or merely overrun the base. (Which, according to FED 8-2-6 is not his right on a base on balls)

You're drilling that nostril too far to find a booger.

Or, as Tee might have reminded us: There has to be interference to call interference.

[Edited by GarthB on Mar 6th, 2005 at 09:58 PM]

Why, did'ums he hurt your widdle feelings?

In FED a Batter-Runner could be put out if tagged off the base after a non-intentional walk. Ball is dead during intentional walk. This would be BU call, not PU.

GB,
Thanks, You are right.
The catcher would still have plenty of time to make that play. There would have to be no interference. It just seemed odd that an offensive player was handling the ball before the defensive player was and it was still a live ball.
Thanks for your insight.

Rich,

Nah.
I just don't want to waste my time reading his replies anymore.
I find others to be valuable and non-judgemental.

Keep posting for me.

Thanks

You're making a mistake. Tee has more experience than I will have in 20 more seasons. Sometimes it's better to read between the lines and take out the parts that will help you than it is to ignore someone.

Butch,

The proper ruling in this play is, your partner should be shot.

Well, I think I shall not shoot my partner, he has a lot more time in the trench then I have and has helped me in many ways. Thanks for all the toughts on the subject. I still continue to stand by my "no call". Catcher could have gunned him down if he went past first so no interference as I see it. Can only call what I see afterall.

Butch

I would not keep the ball live. Once the BR picked up the ball intentionally, I have a dead ball. I forget the rule reference, but I believe somewhere near the rules regarding balls that get lost in an offensive jersey, you'll find enough reasons to call this ball dead the instant the offense controls it.

He's not out on interference, for all the reasons stated above. But the ball is no longer live (so no further play at 1B or anywhere else - nothing to interfere with).

I don't know that this is such a great idea.

Admittedly, if you want to, you can call Time for just about any reason: to clean your glasses, etc. But if you are looking in the Rule Book for a "reason", you are likely to find that most of the reasons have consequenses attached to them: penalties or awards.

If you holler out TIME as soon as BR picks up that ball, you are gonna have a hard time selling the "it's nuttin'" call to the defensive coach. If it's not interference, why'd ya' kill the ball?

On a practical level, if it's not interference [and I agree, it's not], and if there is no chance that the act will have any advantage/disadvantage results: what's the case for killing the ball? What do you gain by doing it?

It's a fairly benign bit of nonsense, but to me it looks like drifting into OOO booger-drilling territory, which I don't think is what you intend.

Why kill the ball? There are no runners on and the batter just walked. Leave the ball live because nothing can happen. Now if the BR decides to do the LL play and head to 2nd, guess what? He gets an assist on his own put out!

Obviously, if there were runners on and the BR picked up the ball, that would be a good time to kill the ball.

How can you NOT kill the ball? It is under the control of the offense. If someone asks me why I killed the ball, I say, "Because it was under control of the offense".

If you don't kill it, what happens if he holds onto it for a second or two, then drops it, and then catcher (who had to travel a few more steps than he would have otherwise) boots it when picking it up and BR successfully takes 2nd base? Obviously the play was affected by BR. Can you retroactively call interference? No - because interference is a dead ball at the moment it happens, and you didn't call a dead ball.

What if, instead of handing it to the catcher, he lobs it to the pitcher. You killing it then? No? What if pitcher flubs the catch and boots it, and BR heads to second?

You even say... "Now if the BR decides to do the LL play and head to 2nd, guess what? He gets an assist on his own put out!" What if he's SAFE?!?!?! He "assisted" his own advancement. That is, to put it bluntly, WRONG.

You CANNOT leave this play live - anything that happens after BR picked up the ball is tainted by that act. Nothing good can come of leaving the ball live here.

And even though Tee was disqualified from responding by the original poster ;) , I'm curious to see if he agrees here. (Although he may not comment at all, as we started in boogerland are rapidly approaching TWP-land).

Back-to-front: please note that the TWP's are the ones in your post suggesting that things will go south if the ball is not made dead. In the overwhelming majority of the few instances where this issue will arise, NOTHING bad will happen unless you kill the ball:

As our scene opens: BR, after being awarded a free pass to 1st, reached down, picks up ball, hands it to F2, and continues to 1st, where he stands, casually removing his batting glove and talking to his coach ...

Ump[mc]: [As BR picks up the ball] Time!

D Coach: Huh? Why? [BR continues to base as described above ..]

mc: Ball was controlled by the offense.

DC: That's interference!! He's out on interference! Call him out!!!!!

mc: No, it's not interference, the ball's just dead 'cause there MIGHT be interference.

DC: [sputtering and starting to foam at the mouth]: Whddya mean it's not interference, he touched the ball!! You called time!! Ain't no rule for a dead ball if there might be interference: it is or ain't!! He touched a live ball on the field of play and you called TIME!! He's gotta be out, you said so yourself, it could be interference!!

mc: Now, coach .....[Off. coach arrives on scene, already sputtering ...] [at this point, there is a timely failure of the lights, and we leave our players as the scene fades from black to darker ...]

[Edited by cbfoulds on Mar 9th, 2005 at 12:40 PM]

Woa there mcrowder! Don't go off the deep end here! If we have no one on, and the batter draws a walk and the BR simply picks up the ball and tosses it to the catcher we have NOTHING! No interference, no "lost ball in the uniform" no NOTHING! If you call interference, your MUST call an out! There is nothing the BR did (in this case) that warrants being called out.

Now, same situation but the BR pickes up the ball and pitches it into the dugout, THAT's interference!

"TIME! Leave the ball alone." Nuff said. No explanation needed, but if one was asked for I'd say the batter should not handle a live ball. There was no interference, so I'm not calling any. I've had this scenario: Runner on first, pitcher pitches, ball pops out of catchers glove and batter reaches out with his foot (or bat)to stop it. Runner going nowhere. I did NOT call time, but I did say, "Leave the ball alone.". Batter said, "Oh. OK." If the runner takes off when the ball pops out, and the batter touches the ball, NOW I have interference.

Hmmm,
 

. . . then there was the time when I was on the dish, with r1, and CAUGHT a straight fastball (with BOTH hands mind you) oops! Sorry I am not supposed to answer this thread!

"Woa there mcrowder! Don't go off the deep end here! If we have no one on, and the batter draws a walk and the BR simply picks up the ball and tosses it to the catcher we have NOTHING! No interference, no "lost ball in the uniform" no NOTHING! If you call interference, your MUST call an out! There is nothing the BR did (in this case) that warrants being called out.

Now, same situation but the BR pickes up the ball and pitches it into the dugout, THAT's interference!"

My question - why do you have interference on him throwing the ball into the dugout? You might have USC, but what play was he interfering with in that case that he was not interfering with in the initial case.

Someone's putting words in my mouth. I, too, have no interference at all. All I have is a dead ball.

MC - TIME!

Stop here - 90% of the time, nothing will happen here, and catcher will merely throw the ball to the pitcher.. but for the other 10%:

Coach - Why'd you call time?
MC - Offense had control of the ball.
Coach - That's interference!
MC - No, it's not, there is no play to be interfered with, and without a play you can't have interference. I called time simply because offense had control of the ball.

End of discussion.

I steadfastly maintain that NOTHING good can come of leaving the ball live. I still have not seen any compelling argument why you would WANT the ball to remain live. I also maintain that nothing BAD can come of calling it dead. The most negative thing anyone's coming up with so far is that you might have to explain your ruling to someone. Big deal.

Even in the tamest of situations, not TWP, if the BR handled the ball, handed it to the catcher, and then through some subsequent set of actions successfully made it to 2nd (regardless of what happened in between to cause him to be able to make it to 2nd), you can't get past the fact that BR may have affected the play by handling the ball, and it is POSSIBLE that his handling the ball in some way gave him some advantage. Since you can't call interference retroactively, you're now left with a BR gaining advantage from handling the ball, and no recourse to fix it.

I know Tee doesn't want to get involved ... but I'm curious - what did you do in the case you described? Dead Ball?

[Edited by mcrowder on Mar 9th, 2005 at 01:49 PM]

Well,
 

It was asked:

"I know Tee doesn't want to get involved ... but I'm curious - what did you do in the case you described? Dead Ball?"

Nah, I acted like nothing was amiss and just tried to throw r1 out as he tried to steal second.

mc:
Hope you realise, I'm not putting words in your mouth.
Nor am I real upset about your suggestion- just don't happen to agree with it; & having a little fun. I guess I usually just handle stuff like this more along the lines of what JJ does; not usually going beyond "Hey, Bubba, leave the ball alone, ok?". If the excrement hit the air-moving device [it never has, so I can say what I did] on one of these, I think I'd find a way to deal with it that everyone would buy. Now, in Tee's sitch, I'd probably call Time, since the ball is dead by rule when handled by an umpire, and no mandatory penalties or awards.

BTW, Tee: did you get him?:cool:

Tee,

Actually had one better than that.

Third game of the day, very hot one. 13 -14 yr olds. Lop-sided score, top of 7th, 1 out. Hm team ahead by about a million runs, (well almost). R3. Visiting batter hits to SS who throws hm to get runner that leaves on the crack of the bat. Catcher tags and turns around and tosses ball to me. I throw it back and tell him batter-runner is headed for second. It must of been hotter than I thought. Runner is thrown out and everybody packs up and goes home.

True story.

NO interference, no DEAD BALL.

I did'nt dare ask for the assist. Although I think it is scored U1-F2-F6.