Carl,

I have been reading the messages quite a bit. And I see where there is no penalties enforced (i.e., stepping off with wrong foot, holding ball infront with both hands) but a "Don't do that!" was said.

My question, if an umpire says, "Don't do that!", should a rule back that up? Can an umpire just tell a player not to do something if it is not in the rule book?

What happens if the coach/manager comes out and says, "what did he do wrong?" Then the ump says, "nothing illegal, just don't want him to do that?"

I think that the coach will tell the ump "to not coach his players, call balls and strikes!"

So I am not grasping how, if something is not in the rule book, the ump can say not to do it?

Just a thought

Max

I just attended my second umpire clinic this weekend and the term "preventative umpiring" was thrown around a lot. Is the the phase "Don't do that" part of "preventative umpiring"? Is "preventative umpiring" handled only between the umpire and the coaches? Any insights on the subject would be appreciated.

[Edited by Mike M on Feb 14th, 2001 at 03:04 PM]

Sure, it was "probably" illegal, or could be
 

I don't really think things will progress as you say. Your examples ARE acts that "could" be punished. Thus, "Don't Do That!" simply becomes a WARNING... and if this is how you want to deal with an early season technical balk.. so be it. Is the coach going to complain.. I don't think so.

Ex: Kid steps off with wrong foot, or "bounces", or applies a very half hearted fake tag (FED).. and you tell him, "Don't Do That!" I couldn't imagine a coach dumb enough to argue with that gift horse... "OK, fine, here's the real penalty, coach!"

In a past life...I watched Skippy work LL. Skippy and I do NOT allow bat windmill disco dance waving. It's a loud and clear DON'T DO THAT. Any coach who argues that... well.. I can come up with a host of PENALTIES that are allowable, in my judgment. They won't argue it again.

Point: I don't think there are many (any?) instances of Don't Do That (or preventative umpiring) where some technical violation and penalty could not be found and imposed.

Mike Branch (aka "The Brainless One!"
Member
EWS

No, "Don't do that!" is not a warning. It's the words umpires use to force a pitcher to follow the regulations as a pitcher.

Take a look at 8.01. There we find that the pitcher: <ol type=a><li>must have one hand on his side;</li><li>shall come to the stop without alteration or interruption;</li><li>may not pitch off the side of the rubber;</li><li>when he disengages the rubber must drop his hands to his side;</li><li>must take his signs from the catcher while on the rubber.</li></ol>When the pitcher doesn't follow those regulations, he's not legal. But those infractions <b>are not</b> balks. The penalty: "Hey, Bubba, don't do that!" Pitchers who continue after numerous warnings to break the rules (without balking) are subject to ejection.

Let's be clear: <b>"Don't do that" said to a pitcher is not a warning.</b> It's an order to correct his faulty mechanics.

I hope everybody is on the same page now.

But, Max, it IS in the rule book. Try OBR 9.01(b) which says in part, "<i>Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules...</i>"

Carl is right that a "don't do that" is definitely NOT A WARNING but instead normally connotes a legal direction to cease breaching a rule that carries no specific penalty for that breach, usually a pitching rule. The legal authority for that "direction" is in OBR 9.01(b). So you can tell the coach to buzz off and mind his own business and cite OBR 9.01(b) for THAT, too! (grin)

Cheers,

[Edited by Warren Willson on Feb 14th, 2001 at 05:37 PM]

shall come to the stop without alteration or interruption;

Carl, this one interests me. I have seen it happen, but never balked it. However, when discussing this "action" with my PONY assignor it is a balk.(I've seen him call it on 12 year olds) One guy I spoke with about this is a WAC official, he explained that in order to call a balk for an "interupted stretch to set" was to look real freaking hard for intent to decieve, I agree. Not to be confused with stopping after a commitment to pitch