I had been interested in purchasing a hockey-style helmet
to wear at the plate.I was discussing this with our state's
(Alabama) district umpire supervisor,when he told me "It's
hard to wear a hat under those".It seems the powers that be in our state require you to wear a hat regardless of your choice of headgear.
The supervisor said it was voted on recently,and his side lost.
I was wondering if any other states required you to wear
a hat beneath full headgear?

You have got to be joking? Are these people for real. Don't tell me their still using the powered blue elbeco shirt too.

A hat beneath the hockey-style helmet, thats hilarious, Ha ha ha ha ha. Are you allowed to use a inside protector or do they still use the balloon outside protector. How about the old beanie hat worn backwards, that should look cute.

Good luck. This is funny!!!!

Arkansas doesn't require a hat when wearing this type of mask.

I have seen people wear beanie style hats underneath the hocky masks. So if you really want to wear the hocky mask, just get a beanie hat.

In Indiana, you are not required to wear a hat under hockey-style headgear.

bandanas
 

One guy in our group(fearless leader) chose to wear a bandana under his. VER BAD!!! ASA, in my area, does require hat under, though.

Why not wear the hat on top of the helmet?

better yet - why not wear one of those little beanie propellers. That way you have a built in fan. :D

Beanie hat ????????
Would someone kindly explain what it is,and
where one could be found?

[Edited by umpduck11 on Oct 1st, 2004 at 08:59 PM]

Don't wear the beanie! Don't you remember what Jimmy Dugan called the umpire wearing one of those.

Ok, you've got to wear a hat. Let me play coach for a minute. "Show me in the rule book exactly where I've got wear my hat!"

Then stick it your ball bag, and wear it on your hip.

Do y'all get cable in Alabama?

Sure,great idea. I'm sure the district supervisor
would love to see my hat in my ball bag.

Yes,we have cable.We also have electricity,running
water, and telephones.Most of us wear shoes, are
literate, and don't marry relatives.Any other
misconceptions I can clear up for you?

Easy now.

My point is your organization is behind the times. Helmets are used, sans hats, in all levels of play. Pro, college and even the T-Ball World Series! You need to make a stand against this anti-helmetite organization, and free your head from the evils of wool caps!

Honestly, watch a few MLB games on the tube and see how many PU's have switched out to a helmet.

This same thing happened with inside chest protectors in the '60's. How many pillows do you see now? Bow ties, anyone?

See a beanie here:
http://www.honigs.com/detail.asp?Cat=2&Sub=37&Item=336

Depending on the helmet, you can wear a combo hat, with a little practice, under one. It works with my All Star helmet ok. It's doable, but very hot.

Yeah, Alabama's rules regarding this are pretty mundane, IMO. Although I prefer the regular cap and mask combo, any official who chooses a hockey-style helmet should not have to wear the hat underneath. If they are working a HS game in Alabama, everybody in the field already knows they are with the state and he doesn't have a need for the identifying cap.

I don't know why they insist on keeping this STATE rule (continuity?...uniformity?), but it's pretty lame. Every clinician I've talked to has said, "If you can get a hat underneath it, go right ahead." Some sympathetically say it, and then there are those who say it sarcastically because they're old school and don't care too much for change.

Whatever.

[Edited by Peruvian on Oct 2nd, 2004 at 11:56 AM]

It's because the MORONS down there hate helmets and this is their way of keeping umpires from wearing them.

I'm glad I live in a state where they leave the umpires alone.

--Rich

yeah,one choice of shirt color, no helmets without
a hat......pretty dull.

I wish they'd let us wear sleeves under our shirts. That's the most mundane of them all. It's barely cool enough (55-60 degrees) for a jacket but too cold for short sleeves and the jacket is the only option you have. The state approved jacket is just too damn hot for those days.

Long sleeve shirts? They're available in navy....

The +POS long sleeved shirt is nicest piece of gear in my extensive collection. Warm, it's semi-insulated, yet breathable. Perfect for plate work on chilly nights.

Peruvian said :

I wish they'd let us wear sleeves under our shirts. That's the most mundane of them all. It's barely cool enough (55-60 degrees) for a jacket but too cold for short sleeves and the jacket is the only option you have. The state approved jacket is just too damn hot for those days.



Not to mention that you just get a jacket broken
in, and the "powers that be" decide to change styles.

I'm curious. What's the worst thing that could happen if you wore no hat with your helmet, or long sleeves? Seems to me good umpires are at a premium. I'm asked to work at lots of organizations constantly. We're in demand, yet some organizations want to keep us down.

I understand the need for uniformity, but it does have it's limitations. Some organizations require a certain jacket, yet, if I roll out with my Fechheimer plate coat I'm sure nobody will complain (except the fashion police!).

Duck, my friend, you're being oppressed. Rise up, and take a stand. Fire off a letter, and include some pictures of MLB umpires without hats. Don't stand (box, scissors or GD) for this!

Now that one I understand. It looks God awful...similar to wearing long underwear with a short sleeve dress shirt.

Get a long sleeve uniform shirt.

Get a long sleeve uniform shirt.

I would, but it's either the short sleevevd shirt or the jacket.

It appears that my use of the word MORON was incorrect. What word is stronger than MORON?

Do not see the point.
 

I have never seen a uniformity code for baseball. You wear what is comfortable and what is allowed (right color shirt and pants). Everything else is personal. If you watch the Majors, you might find 4 umpires each with something different on. On might wear a jacket. One wears a turtleneck shirt underneath. Another official does not wear a hat because they use a mask. As long as you match with the basics, I really do not see the need to match your partner perfectly. This is not football.

Peace

You mean in Alabama you can't wear this shirt?

http://www.pluspos.com/product.asp?which=402

That's bass akwards, brother.

Go Rosa Parks on these knuckeheads. Wear the long sleeves, and your hat in your ball bag.

You mean to tell me that you can't wear a long sleeve shirt? Do they really have a regulation against wearing them? Or do they just say that short sleeves or the jacket is the ONLY acceptable uniform?

Geez, even the military wasn't that bad...

Are you kidding? I've been told they used to be required to wear only a certain brand of pants and evaluators would check the tags to check compliance.

Maybe it's still that way....

To the Umpires in Alabama;

You all need to organize a union and tell the state where they can stick their stupid rules. If you time it right, you might get their attention. Organize over the winter and get at least 40-50 umpires on board who are all from the same section of the state. The day before the varsity season starts, present your demands to the state. Do not show up for any games until they meet the demands.

Give up on high school baseball if they fail to deal with you. If 50 or so umpires quit all at once, right before the season starts, it will have an impact.

It is not worth working in a place that has no respect for its officials. Alabama clearly has no respect for you. You are better off not umpiring than to work under such conditions. Find another hobby or work only rec or college ball.

That is the direct confrontational approach. An alternative approach is for all of you to begin ignoring the regulations all at the same time. That gives them the nightmare of having to enforce them. Make them fire you one by one.

Peter

With my luck, they read this board, and I'd be
the first they let go,lol.

Has anyone talked reasonably with the Alabama High School Association about this? And approached them repeatedly? The more people that inquire the louder the "voice". Keep trying.

JJ.....

I spoke with our district director about the helmet,
and although he agreed with me,he made it plain that
the state required the hat.
I e-mailed him about the long-sleeved shirt,and I
and awaiting his reply.I will update this thread when
I have received an answer.

I've been told they used to be required to wear only a certain brand of pants and evaluators would check the tags to check compliance.

I just don't think I would be comfortable dropping my pants for an umpire evaluator.

Although, there was this one woman umpire....

You should post the address of your district and your state association.

I for one would be happy to send them a letter telling them that they need to re-think their regulations.

If it's good enough for MLB umpires, it should be good enough for them. (Atleast in this instance)

Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home Alabama
Lord I'm comin home to you....

Ain't America just great? We have the freedom to complain to our rules makers about whatever jerks our chain. It's kind of like a fan at a ballgame...

Just received e-mail from our district director.
Long-sleeved shirts are NOT approved for use by the
AHSAA. Any use of these, or wearing the helmet with
no hat can result in an immediate suspension.What a
country......

Perhaps I should not be amazed, but it is ironic to me, that so many umpires would object to the rules of the state association regarding attire, when one of our major obligations while performing our function is to make sure the game rules handed down to us by this same association are followed. None of us would allow the head coach to occupy the 3B box in bermuda shorts and flip flops, so why should we be too concerned about wearing a hat that's not needed, or being required to wear a jacket when it is cool enough to wear long sleeves which is not allowed by state rules? Quit working games in Alabama if you don't like it. This is America, you have a choice.

I would like to wear Powder Blue or Cream when it gets over 85 degrees, but the state association allows only the dark blue. Oh well, I will wear my Powder Blue or Cream for some other games not regulated by state association.

[Edited by DG on Oct 5th, 2004 at 10:01 PM]

DG:

I don't think anyone has said (well maybe HHH did) that the rules be disobeyed. But that doesn't mean they can't be complained about, and that the umpires may "petition" for change. Yes, we are umpires, and therefore should understand that following the rules is necessary. But we also understand that some rules need to be changed.

Rules evolve. The hat rule was made before helmets were considered. Now that helmets are becoming commonplace, maybe the hat rule should be reconsidered.

As for long sleeve shirts, personally I don't like them and don't wear them, and I think a crew should be dressed alike. But if all the umpires on a crew want long sleeve shirts, then asking for the right to wear them is not out of the question.

Yes, we need to follow the rules. But that doesn't mean following blindly, with a "take it or leave it" attitude. Change from within the association can be a good thing.

I was not going to point fingers, but HHH said "You all need to organize a union and tell the state where they can stick their stupid rules". Ronald Reagon had an answer for this kind of action and so did Major League Baseball.

The right to object and petition is undeniable. But don't let an asinine (I agree on this point) ruling warp your perspective. A hat not needed, or a jacket instead of long sleeves, these are not the subjects that merit a suspension.

I think I said I would like to wear Powder Blue or Cream when it's hot, but I don't...

DG:
I'm sorry that you feel we should be sheep,and blindly follow whatever edict is issued without question.HHH does
not,to my knowledge, umpire in this state, and he is
the only one I've heard mention a union.
I don't agree with everything our State requires of
us,but I won't stop working games because of it.The
point of my initial post was to get feedback from people
in other states,and to find out if these standards were
upheld elsewhere.I find it interesting that my state's
high school athletic assc. disallows some practices
which are common amoung major league umpires.
I'll not be garnering a suspension,because I agree
that I too must follow the rules,no matter my personal
opinion.Do not mistake my questioning for whining or
disention.

My state only wants dark blue shirts and they are pretty emphatic about that. I have not heard hats under hockey style masks mentioned and long sleeves are allowed also. However, some umpire associations have rules also. I once worked for one that required all black shoes, and the one I am in now does not, both in same state. I think you will find a wide variety of upheld standards depending on state and umpire association.

I think that there is a difference between rules with a legitimate purpose and rules for the sake of rules.

I understand the need for uniformity and I agree with it, to a point. Everyone should be wearing the same color shirt, agreed. But the when doing games with more than one umpire, you have the plate umpire who is wearing a bunch of protective gear and is moving around on every pitch. The base umpires move very little (when the ball is not hit) and have no additional protective gear. It would only make sense that the plate umpire might be perfectly warm while the base umpire is cold (and that is not taking into account different body types, ie. some people who are always hot or always cold).

Point is, why shouldn't umpires be allowed to wear long sleeves while the others aren't. Or be allowed to wear a short sleeves while others wear a jacket. I almost never get cold and haven't done a game this year in anything but short sleeves.

The hat thing I can understand for a traditional face mask. But the hockey style masks have many advantages over the traditional face mask. If umpires who get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year don't have to wear a hat under the hockey face masks, what sense does it make to require hats under them for guys just doing it on the side. Not making an exception to the hat rule is basically not allowing a mask that is safer, cooler, and gives a better view of the strike zone. And that doesn't make any sense to me.

wear a navy skullcap under the hockey mask.

Here is a hat you can wear under your hockey style helmet.

http://www.underarmour.com/ua2/ua/de...=0205&mscssid=

If they will not allow long sleeves then you are stuck with wearing a jacket or short sleeves. There are lots of lightweight jackets on the market that are not too hot, but warmer than short sleeves.

I think the point has been made by several contributors here - including me - that rules evolve. That process has to begin somewhere - the old rules came from a process. The state director may be passing along the ruling with little sympathy, but ultimately he's not the one who MAKES the rules. He's the "cop" who enforces the rules that others have made. Start the process. Write letters. Communicate with the powers that be. Emails. Petitions. Phone calls. More of the same. Eventually new rules will replace old rules. Don't give up. Who knows, about the time you get permission to wear hockey style masks without hats, hockey style masks may be passe... :)

I hope the braintrusts at the AHSAA were watching the Yankees vs Twins game Wednesday night. Long sleeves and a helmet with no hat.

THE HORROR!