2-28-3: "Time of the pitch is when the pitcher has committed himself to delivering the pitch to the batter. For the windup poisition, the 'time of the pitch' occurs when the pitcher...(b)with both hands at his side, first starts any movement with both arms or leg(s) prior to the pitch..."

6-1-2: "...The pitcher assumes the windup position when his hands are: (a)together in front of his body; (b)both hands are at his side..."

6-1-2: "...After he starts his movement to pitch, he must continue the motion without interruption or alteration."

6-2-4: "If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitcher's plate is a balk...(d)failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion immediately after any movement of any part of the body such as he habitually uses in his delivery..."

I have seen many pitchers take the rubber for the windup with both arms at their sides. Shortly thereafter, they then raise both arms in front of their chest to another legal starting position, together in front of their body, and they pause again. It is difficult to say whether they take signs with both arms at the side or with both arms together in front because the pitcher is looking towards the catcher for both, and is pausing about equally.

Does the motion from the side to the chest satisfy the "time of pitch" because it is a motion with both arms? If so, does it require the pitcher to continue pitching to the batter without stopping? Would it be a balk if there were runners on? Would it be an illegal pitch (w/o debating the FED interpretation dilemma) if there weren't any runners on?

I say let it go. If F1 starts with his hands apart, then brings them together, that is fine with me. He does it every time, and therefore is decieving no one. Usually this is done because F1 takes the sign with his hands apart, then he brings them together and gets his fingers set for the pitch that he is going to throw.

Be careful here!
 

You didn't quote all of the rule in 2-28-3. Section (c) deals with this. The pitcher if he has one hand in front of the body, can then bring the other hand up, (hands together) and then when he starts motion its the TOP.

But, if as you stated in your original post, he starts with BOTH hands at his side, and then starts movement with both hands, he must continue to the plate - this is covered in 2-28-3a.

I have seen pitchers then bring up one hand and a time and I've let that go since this is covered in rule 6.

Also 6-2 covers the three positions that the pitcher may use in the windup position. But with both hands if he starts movement, he's committed to pitch.

Thanks
David

[Edited by David B on Jul 25th, 2004 at 03:21 PM]

LDUB....a FED pitcher in the windup who gets on the rubber
with both hands at his side, then brings both up and stops
has by Rule 6 balked. Now...I can see you not calling that
but let me ask you this then. If the runner is on third
and he is in the windup, he brings both arms up and stops
are you letting him step off then? That's my problem with it. I'm not wild about balking him either but I'm sure as
hell not letting him step off AFTER the Rule 6 TOP. I think
you put yourself in a sticky spot not calling it as it
reads in 6-2.

A FED pitcher who steps on the rubber with both hands to his side, and brings both together in front and stops, has balked. This "highly technical balk" is routinely ignored because none of the coaches know this rule (no complaints). But once a FED pitcher reaches this position legally (ie bring one hand up first, stop, and then the other), he can step off the rubber, if he does it correctly. So why would we not call a "highly technical balk" and then call a balk on a move that is not a balk if done correctly?

That's my worry...
 

I have routinely let it go for the reasons that LDUB stated: does it every time, deceiving nobody, would seem to be OOO to call the technical balk. But, then you run into the problem that if you have a smart coach with a runner on third, he sends the kid and wants a balk called.

Is this a scenario where we are reminded we just enforce the rules?

I can't see selling either call. A balk call on that is simply asking to cause trouble, and telling a coach that the pitcher isn't balking is equally as detrimental to the game.

So the coach sends a runner from 3b, expecting to get a balk that has not been called all day? I would not call him a smart coach.

Re: That's my worry...
 

So you let it go in your game, then a few weeks later he comes to my town and my game and the balk is called. Guess who the coach is going to want to ream.

If its a violation of the rule call it. Why? Because a good coach teaches his kids the rules. I'm coaching third and I see he's got his hands together so I tell my runner as soon as he moves we're okay. Then he steps back and picks my runner off.

What's your call then? You would have to call the out because you let it go the entire game.

This is only "highly technical" if you call all of the rules in Rule 6-2 highly technical. They have the three types of hand positions in the book for a reason. They determine the TOP.

I would let a lot of things go, but this pitcher needs to know the proper windup. Sure most coaches don't know the rules, but we do.

OTOH, if you don't want to call a balk, then tell F2 to tell him not to do that again, but do it with no runners on base so you don't have to worry about a balk. Call it a "don't do that again."

Still you are educating F1 on proper procedures.

Thanks
David

[Edited by David B on Jul 26th, 2004 at 09:24 AM]

I've never been able to figure out why Pro ball starting allowing this from the windup. It does make our job harder. I always figured if a pitcher wanted to stop during his motion he should be working from the stretch. Thanks, Pro ball - by the time interps trickle down to us they're usually pretty messy....

You don't generally see a pro pitcher start in windup with runners on base, because they work the set with runners on base. Maybe occassionaly if they have a situation where they are indifferent to the base runner, and if so, why have a rule to balk, when they are indifferent anyway?