If you ascribe to the theory taught in J/R, then yes, you are correct.

First Base
 

The only missed base that a force cannot be removed is First Base.

Example: Bases loaded, 2 outs. The batter rips one off the fence. All three runners score and then the BR is thrown out at third for the third out.
But wait, the defensive coach saw that the BR had missed first base. So he wants to make an appeal. The ball is dead. So the PU informs the Offensive team to put a batter in the box. The pitcher toes the rubber, backs off and throws to first base. The FU declares that the BR did indeed miss First Base.

Results: Fourth out, the BR being called out twice in the same at bats, and since it would have been the third out by force, NO RUNS!

Whew! Try explaining that to a coach!!

Re: First Base
 

Especially since a play at first is technically not a force out. Sure, it's OK to think of it that way, but there is a specific rule that deals with the third out at first base.

Rich
Is the batter runner not forced to run to first by rule?

No the play at first is not a force.

2.00
A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

[Edited by LDUB on Jul 20th, 2004 at 02:33 AM]

OK.
I found these.

6.08
The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when_ (a) Four "balls" have been called by the umpire; A batter who is entitled to first base because of a base on balls must go to first base and touch the base before other base runners are forced to advance.


7.10

PLAY. (a) Batter hits ball out of park or ground rule double and misses first base (ball is dead)_he may return to first base to correct his mistake before he touches second but if he touches second he may not return to first and if defensive team appeals he is declared out at first. PLAY. (b) Batter hits ball to shortstop who throws wild into stand (ball is dead)_batter runner misses first base but is awarded second base on the overthrow. Even though the umpire has awarded the runner second base on the overthrow, the runner must touch first base before he proceeds to second base.



7.12
Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding runner's failure to touch or retouch a base. If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following him shall score. If such third out is the result of a force play, neither preceding nor following runners shall score



[Edited by teacherspit on Jul 20th, 2004 at 03:18 AM]

No, the batter-runner forces other runners. I'm not certain why the writers of the rule book wrote it this way, but they did. See 2.00 FORCE and 4.09.

It doesn't hurt to think of it as a force play, as it is handled the exact same as one. But I don't think it hurts to be as precise and familiar with the rules as possible.

--Rich

Rich is correct, TECHNICALLY the batter is not forced at 1B, by rule.

I have also been told at higher level clinics that if you try to split this fine hair you will be laughed out of the clinic. Umps <B>treat</b> the batter at first as forced, even if that is not TECHNICALLY what the rule says.

But I do disagree with teacherspit's assertion that the only base to which the force of a missed base cannot be removed is 1B. If you submit this question to WUA, Rick will tell you that if the base was a forced base when missed, then it is still treated as a forced base when appealed.

There is definitely a lesson here. Trying to show how smart you are at a higher level clinic is a bad move. If you are there to learn, keep your mouth shut and learn. If you are there as a clinician, pick whatever nits you want.

I don't disagree with that at all. And i still think you should be as precise as possible when writing about the rules.

--Rich

The BRD notes that in OBR (and Fed), if the runner was forced at the time he missed the base, an appeal would be a force. In NCAA, the appeal would be considered a force if the force was on <i>at the time the play began.</i> (That difference allows the construction of at least one very strange game-ending play.)

Umpires who also do ASA softball have to remember yet another difference: whenever the batter is put out, no subsequent out can be a force out, and whenever a following runner is put out, no out on a preceding runner can be a force out. In ASA, the original play on this thread would <i>not</i> be a force out.

Rich:

From Jim Evans Rules of Baseball Annotated, otherwise known as JEA:

<I>Bases loaded.. .two outs. The batter smashes a hot liner past the third baseman. The ball hits the third base umpire in the foot and deflects to the shortstop. The runner from third crosses the plate...but...the batter-runner is thrown out at first. Does the run count?
RULING: The ball is alive and in play. Since the third out is a <B>force out</b>...no run scores.</I>

I agree, TECHNICALLY, he’s wrong, it’s not a “force out”. He is right in that the run does not count as the 3rd out came before the BR touched 1B.

Just posted to show that even the “big dogs” get a little sloppy in calling this a force out at 1B.

Apparently the out at 1B is a force out in everything but name. I seem to remember a thread a couple of years ago in which nobody could come up with anything that would change if the rulesmakers announced that from now on the out at 1B would be considered a force out. (freix was a main contributor—where has he been lately?)

That's why I still maintain that a batter-runner who touches 1B and then retreats in the direction of home plate has reinstated the "force" and can be put out by tagging 1B, just as he could be put out for retreating from 2B or 3B after arriving safely. Opinion was divided on this, but I don't think anyone found anything definitive.

Force @ 1B?
 

Greymule,
Yes, technically BR is not forced to 1B by a following runner, but BR never has a base he can return to, so he is "forced" to 1B.

In the case where BR obtains 1B but retreats back to home, the force is back on, just as it would be at 2B or 3B if a runner retreats back from the base that he was forced to. In all three cases, the runners have no where else to go except to the next base.

Re: Force @ 1B?
 

Is this correct? I had this come up in a game last month and I posted the a question about it. All the responses came back that the defense can not just tag first base to get the out, BR has to be tagged out.

Re: Re: Force @ 1B?
 

I would think that, since he's touched first base, it would likely fall more under whether there was abandonment or not -- once touching first, a BR has no reason whatsoever to head back towards the plate.