Checked Swing - 4th out appeal? 2 situations

[BJ Moose]

A pro pal shared a question from his exam. I will share it, and a similar sitch. Category is: Can a Checked Swing Appeal be a valid 4th out appeal??

1. R1, 2 outs, 2-2 count. Batter is Mighty Brutus, .850 hitting he-man. R1 Stealing, batter checks swing, Batter Interferes with catcher throwing, but throw RETIRES R1 at second anyway, 3rd out. (We know that Interference is now negated, there is NO interference.) Defense still wants to APPEAL the checked swing, not wanting Brutus to lead off the next inning. Finally, to clarify the "vision", imagine Brutus really screws himself into the ground on this checked swing, PU just MISSED it.

IS the appeal of the checked swing valid? The inning is OVER. Any way for Brutus to be rung up? Or is he going to lead off next inning no matter what?

Now consider similar sitch:

2. R2 R3, 2 outs. 2-2 count. Checked swing. Pitch goes to backstop. R3 scores. R2 comes home, and is TAGGED OUT!
3 outs. Now defense wants to appeal the checked swing. IF Batter "struck out" obviously no run scores.

Is this an valid appeal? This is tougher than #1 because it certainly seems FAIR. But if allowed, where does OBR or NAPBL make this valid?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by BJ Moose
A pro pal shared a question from his exam. I will share it, and a similar sitch. Category is: Can a Checked Swing Appeal be a valid 4th out appeal??

1. R1, 2 outs, 2-2 count. Batter is Mighty Brutus, .850 hitting he-man. R1 Stealing, batter checks swing, Batter Interferes with catcher throwing, but throw RETIRES R1 at second anyway, 3rd out. (We know that Interference is now negated, there is NO interference.) Defense still wants to APPEAL the checked swing, not wanting Brutus to lead off the next inning. Finally, to clarify the "vision", imagine Brutus really screws himself into the ground on this checked swing, PU just MISSED it.

IS the appeal of the checked swing valid? The inning is OVER. Any way for Brutus to be rung up? Or is he going to lead off next inning no matter what?

Now consider similar sitch:

2. R2 R3, 2 outs. 2-2 count. Checked swing. Pitch goes to backstop. R3 scores. R2 comes home, and is TAGGED OUT!
3 outs. Now defense wants to appeal the checked swing. IF Batter "struck out" obviously no run scores.

Is this an valid appeal? This is tougher than #1 because it certainly seems FAIR. But if allowed, where does OBR or NAPBL make this valid?

I think they're both allowed. The check-swing appeal is not a 7.10 appeal -- usually when the word is used, that's what we think of. Here, though, we must look to 9.02(c) notes -- it's more of a "decision reversal" than an "appeal" -- even though the defense "appeals" to the umpire to ask for help.

What's the "pro" answer?

[BJ Moose]

Davey... there is alot going on. PU cannot be looking out at his parter to CHECK with the ball rolling around the rotten wood of the creaky backstop, and runners headed home...

This one "scares" me a bit.. because there doesn't seem to be ANY way to answer this one way or the other...

I mean, 3 outs, the inning is OVER.. right. (except..?)

But I could be swayed to allow, as a sort of Orwellian Revisionist Interpretation, I mean, he struck out, he had always struck out... yikes........

Where are the EXPERTS when you need 'em??
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Originally posted by Dave Hensley
The second situation shouldn't happen with proper mechanics, as the plate umpire should go to his partner immediately, without waiting for an appeal.

[SamNVa]

Since the ball went to the screen in situation 2, the batter isn't out even if the checked swing is ruled a strike. There was a question on McGriffs about what to do if a batter did not run to 1st in this situation and I think the consensus was that the run scores no matter what since the 3rd out was made by R2.

I think is situation #1, the check swing appeal would be a valid strike out since it occured before R1 was thrown out at 2nd. This is consistent with the notion that on a checked swing on a 3-2 count, the runner and the catcher must be alert to the possibility that the ball call may be reversed and the runner can be thrown out at 2nd.

[BJ Moose]

Originally posted by SamNVa
Since the ball went to the screen in situation 2, the batter isn't out even if the checked swing is ruled a strike.

Oooops, absolutely right. I withdraw the SECOND situation!