Player Ejection Volume II

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JEL
At least in FED, holding the bat over the plate is a strike as outlined in 2-8-1.

Read the last sentence of 7.2.1B and you'll see that your statement is in error.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
Thanks for the responses guys.

I realize that my view is slanted, as I was the first batter that was ejected. I realize that I am telling my side of the story, but I am also an umpire and I know the perspective from behind the catcher too.

Our league is age 19-21, and it gets pretty heated. We seldom have problems such as these, but it is not just our team. Opposing players have had confrontations as well. We actually have a lot of solid umpires up here, but in my opinion, this guy is not fit to do these games. In previous games, he messed up a few calls, and he never seems to sure of himself.

I know that these situations happen in baseball. In this situation, I felt that it was not handled properly by the PU. That is why I posted it on here. I wanted to get some other opinions on the situation.

And I realize that umpires are not going to be perfect (from being one myself for 6 years), but just as I expect a player to be pissed at me for screwing up, I do not expect myself or my teammates to let something like this slide without any argument. This was a big game too, we were playing the team directly ahead of us in the standings.

Thanks for the input guys.

Great. An umpire shows his behind when he's playing. Why don't you just tell everybody it's perfectly OK for players and coaches to be unsportsmanlike, just because they THINK the umpire is wrong.

You aren't an umpire. You are a rat who umpires once in a while. Big difference.

[Baseball_North]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Great. An umpire shows his behind when he's playing. Why don't you just tell everybody it's perfectly OK for players and coaches to be unsportsmanlike, just because they THINK the umpire is wrong.

You aren't an umpire. You are a rat who umpires once in a while. Big difference.

It takes a pretty big man to insult someone on an internet message board.

I didn't direct anything to you... I don't understand why you have to fire insults back?

You seem to have the attitude of an umpire that has never played the game before.... and does not know what it is like to be in the players' shoes.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by Baseball_North

You [Rich Fronheiser] seem to have the attitude of an umpire that has never played the game before.... and does not know what it is like to be in the players' shoes.

BN;

I believe that I have about the worst "attitude" here. My abrasiveness is continually criticized by the wimps and wannabes who inhabit the boards.

Rich's, Tee's, Carl's, WCB's and my attitudes (as well as numerous other umpires of accomplishment) are formulated because we know what were doing and have little patience with greenhorns and wannabes who think that they know what they are doing. You should listen more and write less. We know what were doing. An BS umpire like yourself, in an unruly bush league, has nothing on us.

BTW, I can't speak for Rich, but I played NCAA baseball. It was only D-III but it was real baseball. I have been hit by the pitch, engaged in cheating (at my coach's direction), and know exactly how to behave like a "rat." It is exactly why I have so little tolerance for BS.

Peter

[WindyCityBlue]

Whoa...There are a lot of us that compete in competitive sports. As a player, I have a better appreciation of what it takes to do his job. I can and do get infuraited by guys who just go through the motions, because it is an adult league/rec league or not up to his standards. I am paying his fee and expect a lot more than my teammates that may not know any better. BUT, I never take action on the field, court or ice. I don't tell my teammates that he blew a rule or a coverage, so that they can tear into him. self control is the name of the game. Secondly, you have mentioned that it is a small community of officials up there, keep that in mind. You may not want to work with him in the future, but he certainly will remember you and it will get around. We are bound by an unwritten code of ethics. Whether I am playing in a contest or watching in the stands, I scrutinize the officiating. But I do not contribute to the abuse we hate so much.

You may be correct about a call, ruling or mechanics, but you hate being shown up on the field, right? Buy him a beer (they do have an abundance of that up there) and shoot the sh*t. The topic will come up and you'll be better served on teh field as a player and umpire.

[Baseball_North]

I agree with everyone's comments except for Rich's. I understand that you guys call a higher level of ball, but maybe your ignorance about Canada makes you think baseball is nothing here. I don't intend that to be an insult. It is taken very seriously, and it is competitive. It's not a bush league where people do not know what they are doing. I played with a guy who got drafted by the Marlins a few years ago. My city has about 60 umpires, so it's not like we only have 5 or so to go around.

I respect your opinions, and I realize that you guys most likely have more experience and such than me. But it seems to me that some of you think that you are above the game and that any umpire that isn't at your level is automatically not a good official.

I do not mean to offend anyone, and if I did then I apologize ahead of time, but those are just my two cents on the subject.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Baseball_North

It takes a pretty big man to insult someone on an internet message board.

I didn't direct anything to you... I don't understand why you have to fire insults back?

You seem to have the attitude of an umpire that has never played the game before.... and does not know what it is like to be in the players' shoes.

But you know what it's like to be in an umpire's shoes and that means you know the right way and the wrong way to behave on a field.

People know you umpire, especially if you are from a small town. Those that see you act this way either (1) think it is the right way to behave because, well, you're an umpire, or (2) are umpires and see you act this way and wonder if you have their backs when they need you.

There is a high school coach around here that umpires. I've worked his team twice and restricted him to the dugout twice. I'd probably work with him if assigned, but I'd certainly remember his behavior and realize I might be alone out there when the chips are down.

[Baseball_North]

I realize that, and can appreciate what you are saying.

We are not in a small town where everyone knows I umpire... the only people that know are my family, friends, teammates, fellow umpires, and a few coaches throughout the league. But I understand what you are saying.

I understand that I have created a double-standard for myself. If a player said to me what I said to the umpire, I would have ejected him also. No question. I do have some regret on what I said, but stubbornly think the call was wrong.

But the thing for me is..... I try to separate my playing from my umpiring. I am not a player/umpire when I have my baseball uniform on. I am a player and a player only. It would be unfair to my teammates to do otherwise. When I umpire, I am not a player. I call the game using the mechanics and rules that I have learned over the years.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
I realize that, and can appreciate what you are saying.

We are not in a small town where everyone knows I umpire... the only people that know are my family, friends, teammates, fellow umpires, and a few coaches throughout the league. But I understand what you are saying.

I understand that I have created a double-standard for myself. If a player said to me what I said to the umpire, I would have ejected him also. No question. I do have some regret on what I said, but stubbornly think the call was wrong.

But the thing for me is..... I try to separate my playing from my umpiring. I am not a player/umpire when I have my baseball uniform on. I am a player and a player only. It would be unfair to my teammates to do otherwise. When I umpire, I am not a player. I call the game using the mechanics and rules that I have learned over the years.

It is unfair to your teammates to get yourself tossed no matter how bad the call was. As an umpire you should understand that you buy NOTHING with the umpires by showing your worse half. All you do is either get ejected or annoy them or both. Likely both.

[jxt127]

Once you don the blue you can no longer fully separate the roles you fill at a ball game. So many people know you as a blue and you must conduct yourself as you ideally expect others to conduct themselves.

I coach a rec team (12-13), play AA (empahsis on the first A) slo-pitch softball, umpire AA softball and umpire youth baseball.

As the way it happens I sometimes end up calling games in the same division I coach in. There is no way on earth I can fully separate my duties as a coach and the fact that I am also an umpire. As a coach I MUST act as I expect coaches to act when I am the blue. To do anything else is hypocritical. Granted I get a lot more emotional as a coach but I do not ever yell or direct side remarks at an umpire and I keep it short and simple.

As an aside to a previous posting I am watching a softball tournament across the screet from my office and on the near field the blue has his water bottle hanging off the baskstop right behind the plate and the only batting helmet is being worn by the pitcher (AA slo-pitch)

[Baseball_North]

I'm not going to disagree with you on that point, Rich. Being ejected only makes things worse for your team. I guess my bottom line is that just because I am an umpire, doesn't mean I am going to act A LOT differently as a player. Things happen in the heat of the moment. People get angry. That's the way sports go. They are emotional, competitive, and have an agressive nature sometimes.

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by Baseball_North
I guess my bottom line is that just because I am an umpire, doesn't mean I am going to act A LOT differently as a player. Things happen in the heat of the moment. People get angry. That's the way sports go. They are emotional, competitive, and have an agressive nature sometimes.

I am going to be brutally blunt for a moment, but I say this as advice and not condescending. Grow up. You are an adult, act like it. Treat others as you want to be treated. If you can't control your emotions, don't play the game. Set the example for others. That is leadership.

Funny thing about being an umpire, people all across the area that I live know that I am an umpire. Even people I don't know, know that I am an official, and they expect me to be even keeled when I am on the baseball field and off.

[sir_eldren]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
Rich's, Tee's, Carl's, WCB's and my attitudes (as well as numerous other umpires of accomplishment) are formulated because we know what were doing and have little patience with greenhorns and wannabes who think that they know what they are doing. You should listen more and write less. We know what were doing. An BS umpire like yourself, in an unruly bush league, has nothing on us.

Peter

Very nice. You've just insulted about 80% of all baseball players and umpires out there. As you said, you have about the worst attitude on this board, and I agree with you whole-heartedly. You are a lame punk who has no true respect for this game or else you'd understand one of the basic tenets of officiating: EVERY game is important because it's the most important game to the players that day.

And the next time you're in McDonald's and toilet seat is nasty, remember that the janitor has nothing on you because he works in an unruly bush-restaurant: either you clean the seat yourself or you hold it in and get cramps.

-Craig

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by sir_eldren

Very nice. You've just insulted about 80% of all baseball players and umpires out there.

Naw, more like 90%. In doing that, he did have to use up about 40% of his complete writing repetoire though- the parts where he says "I'm a Big Dog and anybody that disagrees with a Big Dog is an idiot, a liar and screws small farm animals".

Now, go to the top of the page and take a look in the Moderator's Section. Re-read the sentence that says personal attacks will not be tolerated. It doesn't really say it, but it actually means that personal attacks on Big Dogs and Contributing Writers will not be tolerated.

Now hurry out, y'all, and buy a paid subscription so you can get the other 60% of his knowledge.

"Umpires of accomplishment?". Gotta love it.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jul 10th, 2004 at 02:47 PM]

[oatmealqueen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jumpmaster

[i]Funny thing about being an umpire, people all across the area that I live know that I am an umpire. Even people I don't know, know that I am an official, and they expect me to be even keeled when I am on the baseball field and off.

jump,
This is such an important point and very well stated. Wish that officials in all sports could read your post.
barb