I ususally stay in the softball board but I was told about a situation that happened in Dixie baseball that I wondered about.
R1 on first, defense playing behind the bag. Batter hits a soft popup toward first base, in front of the defense. R1 steps off 1st with one foot, then brings foot back to the base. R1 is has both feet on the base and the ball hits his leg and caroms toward second base as the defender is coming in. BU calls R1 out because he was hit by the ball.
Seems to me that vacating the base to avoid interference would put him in jeopardy of being tagged out or doubled up if catch was made. Isn't the base considered a safe haven?

R1 is out, batter is awarded 1st. The only time being on a base protects a runner is on an Infield Fly (R1, R2 or R1, R2 & R3 - both with less than 2 out).

Depends.
 

The runner has every right to stay on the base. I'd need intent by the base runner before I called interference. I would consider it intentional if the runner made no attept to avoid the ball while touching the base. G.

Then you'd be calling it wrong, Gee. If the runner is hit by a batted ball when an infielder has a play, he's out. The rules make no provisions for a player remaining safe on the base. He certainly could have remained on the base and not gotten hit by the ball, if he had chose to do so (foul ground, perhaps?).

Don't think so.
 

"He certainly could have remained on the base and not gotten hit by the ball, if he had chose to do so (foul ground, perhaps)?."
---------------------------

Didn't see the play but I covered the fact that the runner should make every effort to avoid the ball and in general J/R agrees with me. G.

Re: Depends.
 

Since when does INTENT determine interference by a runner hit by a batted ball?

Gee, if you're saying that for some reason, this particular ball was hit in such a way that the runner absolutely could not avoid it without getting off the base ... well, then - he needs to get off the base. But if that's truly the case, then it sounds like a fair ball that was not going to be caught anyway, and he needs to get off the base and run to 2nd.

Perhaps I need a better description of the ball in question, but the point remains that the runner is REQUIRED to avoid getting hit by the ball while it's still fieldable by a fielder. The base doesn't even enter the question. Intent doesn't enter the question. He simply MUST get out of the way.

(I fail to see, in any case, why the runner could not have gotten into foul ground and touched the base on it's side, or gotten himself out of the way of the ball in some manner. The base is 4-5 times the width of the ball, after all.)

PS - Who's J/R?

I think J/R refers to Jaska/Roder...

Try reading OBR 7.08: "A batter is out when (b) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball..........If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire's judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional."

What more can I say. G.



[Edited by Gee on Jun 28th, 2004 at 02:30 PM]

The rule you quoted references interfering with the FIEDLER.

In the play in question, the runner "interferred" with the BALL. The rule that applies is 7.08(f)

Different plays, different rules, different results.

Gee,
Reading comprehension skills are a wonderful thing. 7.08 States that "Any RUNNER is out when-- (b)He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or HINDERS A FIELDER attempting to make a play on a BATTED BALL. The rule is talking abouta runner hindering a FIELDER on a batted ball. Not about a ball hitting a runner.

7.08 states "Any RUNNER is out when-- (f)He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder...." It goes on to note the exception for being touched by an infield fly while standing on base.

I wasn't there but as I understand the situation, the first baseman did have a possible play on the ball but was unsuccessful. The runner had started to step off when the ball was hit but was told by the first base coach to come back because it was a fly ball. There was no intent to interfere.
Seems to me if he had left the base to avoid and the ball had been caught, he was dead meat. Has to be something other than a no win situation.

Kaalix stole part of my thunder, in that you are using a completely wrong rule here, and the rule that matters is the one that pertains to being hit by a batted ball.

The other problem is that your rule is OBR, and the situation was Dixie.

The original question was whether staying on a base is a "safe haven" in baseball, as it is in softball, if a runner is hit by the batted ball. The answer is NO, except in the case of IFF as noted by rule.
I would expect that every youth code (LL, Babe Ruth, Dixie, AAU, etc...) follows the OBR ruling 7.08f. I think even FED stays true on this one.

Wow, you guys will take any port in the storm to show you are right, Interfered with the ball not the fielder, not OBR, Dixie, yadda, yadda yadda.

When a runner is hit by a batted ball and interference is called is it because he interfered with the ball or interfered with a fielders attempt to field the ball? Come to class. With that I'll A2D.

You're getting grumpy in your old age, Gee. Try to be more gracious when it's pointed out the you made a mistake.

This IS NOT "any port in a storm." This is in the Official Rules of Baseball:

7.08 states "Any RUNNER is out when-- (f)He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder...."


And. you've been around to along to be surprised that there are different interference rules and references in the OBR. If you A2D, you're diagreeing with reality.

You're better than that.

What Garth said.

Whereas a base is a safe haven in softball, it is NOT in baseball. Get hit while on a base by a fair batted ball and you are out, unless the ball passes a fielder that is within a step-and-a-reach.

I called this a few years ago on a runner hit while standing on third. It hit him in fair ground, so he was out. 7.08 (f).

--Rich

If you read the original post it did not straight out say that a first baseman was making a play on the pop up but it inferred that when it said that the runner feared taking his foot off the base because he might get tagged out. If the F1 was not there where was he? Is that an unrealistic assumption? I think not.

With that said, it is my opinion the runner interfered with the fielder making a play on the pop up and under OBR 7.08(b) which is an obvious exception to OBR 7.08(f) the runner is not out providing he convinced the umpire he made a reasonable effort to avoid interfering while staying on the bag.

If you feel there was no fielder in the area to make the play use 7.08(f). I happen to think that's a stretch so I'm sticking with OBR 7.08(b). I don't think that is too hard to understand. G.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
[B]What Garth said.

Whereas a base is a safe haven in softball, it is NOT in baseball. Get hit while on a base by a fair batted ball and you are out, unless the ball passes a fielder that is within a step-and-a-reach.

I called this a few years ago on a runner hit while standing on third. It hit him in fair ground, so he was out. 7.08 (f).
----------------------------------------
I totally agree with your call, providing F5 wasn't right there trying to field the ball.

Different sitch. Runner on first, F3 probably holding him on or in close proximity.

Pop up to first base, runner feared leaving the base as he might be tagged out(after the catch by F3 and the ball hit him. I have nothing, assuming he convinced the ump he was trying to avoid the interference, OBR 7.08(b). G.

[Edited by Gee on Jun 28th, 2004 at 06:29 PM]

How the heck do you get interference with a player when the runner is hit with a batted BALL?!?!?!?!?!?!

That makes no sense at all!

Being hit with a batted ball falls under 7.08(f), not freakin (b)!

If a runner is touched with a fair batted ball he is out, whether or not he is on a base, unless the ball has passed by a fielder and no other infielder has a play on the ball, with the exception of an infield fly.

Why are you trying to warp the rules to fit your false premise? :(

You're making up the interference, Gee. Nothing in the original play says this -- all it says is that a batted ball hit a runner on a base in front of a fielder. That's it. And that, in baseball is interference with the ball, and is an immediate dead ball out.

Your opinion is conjecture based on nothing mentioned in the original post.

In softball, the base is a safe haven, as far as I know.

Wow, I think I'll mosey on back to the softball board; you guys are pretty intense!!
I didn't really try to present things in a comparative way to softball. I realize that's apples and oranges.
A coworker's daughter plays softball as does my DD and we usually talk softball. However, her younger son plays Dixie baseball and she mentioned this sitch. Not being knowledgable about OBR is what brought me here.
Thanks for all the input.

See what all the arguing does? It chases the newbies away. Imagine if instead he'd stumbled on one of the other recent threads.

Intense is not the word for it. I don't know what the softball board is like, but I hear the basketball board is hell. So ya'll come back now, you hear... The posts are not always that lively. Sometimes you get a question followed by a straight answer.

I'm so ashamed. These delicate flowers must just wilt when a manager comes out of the dugout with steam coming out of his ears.

emaxos
 

careful guys - emaxos is a retired navy guy, don't be too quick to judge. What is called a Master Chief Petty Officer - In other words, when John Kerry was earning his medals, a guy like emaxos was making sure he didn't hurt himself and bringing everyone was coming home alilve. Guys like this ARE the military and our young men and women literally owe them their lives.

Appreciate your words, Al.
I don't believe that softball addicts like me are any less intense about that game as you all are about baseball. Was blessed with three daughters so baseball wasn’t an option.
Got one playing at the college level now and wouldn’t hesitate to say she plays the game as hard as any athlete in any sport, any gender, any level. Just like her Dad did things in the Navy!!

Keep our service men and women in your hearts and prayers.

I didn't think this was that intense, at least not between Gee and I.

Gee - just because you aren't going to call him out for interfering with a fielder (which, in this case, you wouldn't since he was touching a base), you still have to call him out for being hit by a batted ball. They are two different rules, either of which could cause the runner to be out. You can't use the exception from one rule to infer an exception to another rule. If you get hit by a batted ball, you're out. Period.

<b>If you get hit by a batted ball, you're out. Period.</b>

Unless, of course it's a foul batted ball, or an infield fly and you're on a base, or it has passed an infielder who has a chance for a play or, etc.

Or your partner overturns your call. Oops, wrong thread...

I took my sons to a AAA game today and saw R3 get hit with a fair ball in foul territory. The ball bounced on the line and hit him a foot or two outside the line. Ump called dead ball and sent him back to base.

The whole park was screaming that he was out because he was hit. My 8 year old asked me why he was safe (he'd been hit with a batted ball in Little League this season). When I explained why, he said "oh, that's why they run from third base in foul territory then."

You mean "a foul ball."

Nope, I meant fair ball. The last time it touched the ground it was fair. It didn't become foul until it hit the runner. The park apparently thought it was fair because it was on the ground in fair territory. I suppose I should have called it a "fair" ball.

Woa there. If the ball hit the line and then the runner in foul territory before it reached 3B it is foul. If it hit the bag and then bounced up and hit the runner in foul territory it is fair. That's about the only way I can think of off-hand that you can get hit by a fair ball while in fair territory.

I think you mean foul territory. :) Apparently this is equivilent to a toungue twister.

No, I'm sure you meant to say foul ball.

If the last time it touched the ground was prior to third base and then touched the runner in foul territory, it was foul.

Yes, I understand that. My point was that it appeared fair to the casual observer, thus my placement of the word fair in quotes in the second post on the subject. The ball was bouncing down the line and hit a runner standing at that line.

The word fair was intended as sarcasm. I suppose my original post should have read...

Notice the word fair is in quotation marks to denote sarcasm.

Nahhh. We're umpires. We're too literal . It wouldn't have helped. ;)

Apparently. :)