How do you handle dugout chirping?

Tonight I was asked repeatedly, "Where was that pitch?"
I also overheard the coaches wondering why I wasn't giving their pitchers the same calls the other team got.

That all depends on what's being said.

Usually I ignore this comment unless the catcher gets asked. Then I turn to the coach and tell him "It was in the ball zone, coach" as I point my finger at him. That usually shuts him up. If he keeps it up or asks the catcher again, I handle it directly. Never tell them where the pitch was.

As long as this is just a comment you over-hear, bear down harder and make good calls. If this comment is clearly directed toward you, dump him. Never allow a coach to accuse you of cheating. That is what this comment infers - you are giving 2 different strike zones.

Probably the first time, I MIGHT reply if asked politely. After repeatedly questioning, I will call time and tell the coach "don't ask anymore", the pithch is whatever I call it and leave it at that". For which I will usally get the reply, "well how do I tell my pitchers how to adjust"? To which I reply, "thats your problem coach, just don't ask".

The ONLY reason that question is asked is because they thought it should be different than what you called. THE ONLY REASON!

Put an end to this early and you will set the tone of the game. If the coach can't fogure that out, well than he deserves the consquences.

In my limited time as an umpire, it has become even more apparent that baseball does not have any official warnings like other sports. There are no yellow cards, no two minute unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, no 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct flags, and no technical fouls.

I have used "The Stare" with good results. The first or second time you hear "chirping" just look over and stare hard at the coach. Usually they get the message.

You could also call time and nip it in the bud the first time it happens and tell the coach that he needs to drop the comments.

Or you could just toss the first person from a team who makes a second comment of any type. That will just about always get the message across.

Your mileage may vary.

better yet...
 

A lot of good umpires use the catcher.
A coach chirps, "Where was that?"
Tell the catcher, "Show him outside." When he does, say "Thanks for keeping your pitcher's head in the game." Since your mask is on and you are saying it discreetly, it appears that the catcher is nipping it in the bud. If he doesn't want to assist, tell him, "Hey, I could call "Time" and explain every pitch to your bench, but you and I know where it was - he just missed. Let's keep the game going."

The best catchers know that they don''t want to piss off the guy behind them. Most are polite to a fault and think that if they are helping you, you'll help them.

If the bum still won't stop questioning pitch locations, dump him as he walks by you to go to the coaching box. Dumping a guy in the dugout is low class and calling "Time" to go to him is for rookies. No one will know the words exchanged when he is walking by, and you aren't perceived as looking for it.

They don't get to argue balls and strikes - even when you've kicked it.

Ignore them.
 

I just ignore the bench. I do not even start to answer question from the bench. I only talk to the catcher and let him tell them. You start answering questions early from the benches, you will continue to answer questions the rest of the game. Most good catchers will help you out and clearly speak for you. But if they do not, you inform them of their duties and it is not to question your calls.

Now I will say this, if I have not heard anything all day and we have a really close pitch much later in the game and the bench says something (I am talking about head coach here). I might nod my head my head if they ask, "was it low blue?" But that is if they have acted like they have some sense most of the day. That is just something you have to have a feel for.

But for the most part I just ignore them and they get the message.

Peace

BIG :D

Re: better yet...
 

I would like to see you write up a report on that ejection. It would go something like this. Well the coach was questioning my strike calls, I told him to stop but he kept going. He went too far, and I decided that he must go. But then I thought to myself, if I eject him now, I will look like a low class rookie, I better do it later. So between innings, as the coach walks by me about 15 feet to my right, minding his own business, I yell "that's it, you're gone!" and I eject him. He asked me what he did, but I refused to talk to him because he has to leave the field.

I have a question also. How would you handle this situation if the coach who is yelling does not coach 1st or 3rd? Do you toss him when he comes to you with a subsitution?

Glad you like my advice :)

I wish I'd have gotten "The Stare" ;)

You thought my advice was bad, this has to take the cake.
 

And you have the nerve to question my advice?

No crap!!!

Now I see why you are offended by being questioned as a "Big Dog."

Peace

Wake up!
 

Jeff, I posted before you.

How could I possibly have known that you were going to say what you did? Look at the timeline. Who's kidding who?

BTW, go to professional school, graduate, work a couple of years of Minor League baseball and then you can question my technique. The way I handle coaches was taught at Brinkman-Froemming for years. Tossing a coach in the dugout is bush. Baiting him by approaching his dugout is worse.

"Big Dog" comments are just an extension of your mentality.
Work the games I do and you'll see that those of us that work there don't pick battles we can't win. Getting your first big game is easy, getting annual schedules is the true accomplishment. If you consider that arrogant, too bad. The advice I give is backed by more than a few years of calling high school baseball.

BTW, "The Stare" doesn't work past high school. It just indicates that you heard him and won't react. That we did learn in the Minors.

[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Jun 18th, 2004 at 01:56 PM]

Re: Wake up!
 

You mean they actually teach you to throw out a coach a half inning after a comment was made for no other reason other than walking by you?!? That just doesn't sound right?!?

I have seen coaches in the the Major Leagues get tossed while sitting on the bench. Are you telling me those umpires are bush league?

What do you do with a coach that is chirping from the dugout who doesn't come out of the dugout? If you shouldn't throw him out on the bench because that is bush and you shouldn't approach the dugout because you don't want to bait him what exactly are your options???

I'm definitely confused???:confused:

As far as I'm concerned, chirping is part of the game... to a certain extent.

You can't let every little word coming out of the bench get to you, or else you look vulnerable. As long as they aren't screaming or swearing or personally attacking you, just live with it.

When I'm playing, from the bench we always yell "leave it up there!" on borderline high strikes... and so on...

Just deal with it.

Please read it again
 

You mean they actually teach you to throw out a coach a half inning after a comment was made for no other reason other than walking by you?!? That just doesn't sound right?!?

Okay, when did your go to school? Besides learning mechanics, technique and rules, you are taught how to handle situations. The first rule of umpiring is to not lose control, second is to maintain a professional appearance. Staring into a dugout (when no one can hear what he is saying) or stopping the game and approaching him are bush. Depending on the comment, I have tossed guys who have been in the dugout while never moving from behind the catcher. I have also walked to the dugout and dumped guys. Every time, I received a sheet that told me how bad that looked. Rabbit ears? Baiting him? No more.

I have seen coaches in the the Major Leagues get tossed while sitting on the bench. Are you telling me those umpires are bush league? Depends...I don't know which play you are referring to or what was said. But I can say that just because they are working there doesn't mean they don't make mistakes...I saw the homerun call between the Expos and Twins...seems that bad judgement does make it on their fields.

What do you do with a coach that is chirping from the dugout who doesn't come out of the dugout? If you shouldn't throw him out on the bench because that is bush and you shouldn't approach the dugout because you don't want to bait him what exactly are your options???
I think I explained it and you took exception. It works for our level of ball, you may not like it, okay. It is advice from someone who has used it successfully. Like many techniques and mechanics, use what serves you best.

I had a coach ask me between innings, "where's my pitcher missing on the low outside corner pitches?" His pitcher was trying to hit that location all inning and kept getting ball calls.

The problem was that on the low outside pitches, the catcher for some reason would stab at the ball with his glove and pop up in front of me just as the ball got to the plate. I couldn't see the plate at all when he did that and since his glove ended up outside the zone by 3 feet, I was calling ball.

I told hte catcher this once or twice and it kept happening. So when the coach asked, I told him what was going on and he switched catchers.

Re: Wake up!
 

Call me crazy, but I did not read your post until I saw the response of LBUD. I am sure that will not be the last time that will ever happen.

This is what I am talking about. I am not going to pro school. I am not going to pro school. I am not going to pro school (did I say I am not going to pro school :rolleyes:) I do not want to go to pro school. Pro schools are usually held in January and February, in the middle of the most important season to me. I am not going to pro school, so I really could give a damn what they teach. There are a lot of successful umpires that never go to pro schools. If you ask me, most that go to pro school do not learn so much about umpiring that gives them such an advantage when they come home. Some of the umpires I have seen go to pro school, cannot umpire a LL game without problems coming their way. It is also called "pro school," for a reason. It is for those that want to learn the game from a pro perspective. It is the very reason that many other sports officials do not attend camps that the NFL or the NBA hold. There is a different philosophy and unless you are wanting to progress to that level, the "pro school" is probably not your bag. So enough with the freakin pro school. This was not a minor league game. If it was, I am sorry. But someone trying to look for advice about chirping is probably not at the pro or major college level. But that is just a guess. ;)

Then qualify your statements. I have no problem with you sharing your experiences at the "higher levels," but we are not talking about that kind of game. The focus is totally different at the pro level. And even if you say that is the way it is done, I can see you have not watched very many pro games on TV (that would be Major League Baseball). They dump guys all the time on the bench. They look at the bench all the time. Just watch <b>Baseball Tonight</b> for a week, you will see a ejection of a coach sitting on the bench. I have never seen what you suggest as happening. Of course I am not there and do not hear the words, but it is a rookie move to eject someone sitting on the bench? :eek:

No, really? For one the coaches at the college level do not pull the same crap either. And if they do, they realize what is going to happen. HS and lower tend to get away with a lot of stuff and keep trying to push the envelope. It is that way at all sports. So what the hell is your point? I am so happy that you have reached the Minors (which we all are not aspiring to do by the way)

Just keep posting. Your boy is not here to support you here. ;)

Peace

Oh no,no no! I really like your advice-especially from door #3. Yup. Toss the first person that makes a <b>second</b> comment of any type. That should take care of all the coaches who like to "work" umpires, shouldn't it? Or maybe the best way might be door #2 instead, where you call time the very <b>first</b> time it happens and warn the coach. Of course, I am taking for granted that if the coach doesn't wanna listen to that very <b>first</b> warning, you're gonna haveta dump him then. Correct? And door #1, am I correct in thinking that you're also gonna unload the coach if he ignores the "stare" that you use after the coach chirps "the first or second time", and continues his chirping?

Great advice. I'd personally recommend it to ALL of the basketball officials I know. They can adapt it to the coaches in that sport who like to "work" officials. :D :D

To: Jurassic Referee

Cool!:p

My question is this - How do I (or the poster) know who to listen to? We have 2 umpires that are arguing back and forth, and both make good points - but which is more right?

Rutledge says it is sometimes necessary to dump a guy from the bench if he doesn't respond to the stare or the catcher telling him your thoughts. I agree with that, though I have never had to dump anyone, yet.

WindyCityBlue says it looks unprofessional to dump a coach that is on the bench, or to call time to warn him. I agree with that too.

What other options do we have? We can look unprofessional and dump a coach on the bench or look unprofessional and dump a guy who is walking by and not talking to you. Either way, you lose. Dumping somebody unless they are in your face screaming and kicking dirt on your shoes is probably going to make you look at least a little unprofessional because you (or I) couldn't control the situation.

I would think for the people in lower level that dumping a guy walking to the coach's box not talking to you would look even more unprofessional. I do not know about college, minors or even majors. I have not been to any clinics, yet, so I don't know if that is recommended or not. I will take your word that it is. But do you agree that walking up to a coach, in between innings, initiating contact and dumping him looks more unprofessional than dumping a guy yelling from the dugout?

I do not know, I am trying to get some advice because I do not know the right answer. I am trying to look at it as unbiased as I can. Let me know what you guys think.

In order:

1) Ignore the bench until the chirping gets excessive, or irritating, whichever comes first.
2) A long Stare into the dugout after 1) is good and may be enough to get it stopped.
3) If after delivering the Stare, another chirp comes up, then a warning is appropriate. Do the warning, emphatically, and then take the time to write it down on whatever game sheet you are keeping. Look into the dugout one last time after writing it down before returning to the plate.
4) If it happens again, dump somebody, even if they are in the dugout. 3 strikes and you are out. the stare is one, the warning is another...

I had a DH 2 weeks ago in an adult league. I was on bases for first game and my partner allowed quite a bit of chirping in the first game. In the second game I am PU and the chirping started almost immediately. I ignored in the first onning and stared and warned in the second inning and did not hear another chirp the rest of the game. The warning was emphatic, I made eye contact with every player on the bench and the coach. It was not to be mis-understood.

First piece of advice
 

Wobster;

The first piece of advice that I can give you is to ignore Rut. If two umpires are arguing and one of them is Rut, then the other umpire is the one that's right. I've watched Rut for almost 4 years, enough said.

You might want to take a holistic approach to your game. By that I mean that instead of seeing each game all by itself, consider establishing a reputation that will see you from one game to the next. When I dump someone, I am doing it not only for that game but for games in the future.

When you dump a lot of coaches and players, word gets around and people leave you alone. You probably still suck, but now the rats learn to live with it. When people leave you alone, you feel good about yourself and probably do a better job. Gradually you improve. However, most people can never improve at something if those around them are whining, screaming, or complaining. It's too distracting.

You mentioned that you have never dumped anyone. It's time to lose your virginity. Make it a point to dump someone within the next two games. Ejections are a skill that requires practice.

In 1995, my career was stalled and I was having no fun at games because of all the low-level BS going on all around me. Nothing real bad was happening, just chirping, snide comments, and other mild unpleasantries. In 1996 I went to pro school and after that I decided to see how many people I could throw out in a season. I practiced dramatic ejections, quiet ejections without a word, and all manner of ejections in between. I selected targets early in the game and went after these guys. Sometimes I attempted to fire them up so that I could eject them and other times I lay in the weeds. I did not care about all of the complaints rolling in to the assignor; I was have the time of my life.

I had over 30 ejections in 110 games. I behaved myself at real good games or games with laid back coaches. No sense starting trouble when none is brewing. But if any trouble started brewing, I brought it rapidly to a boil. There was little preventative officiating that year. Prior to this, I had a sense of failure at an ejection. Now it was a matter of success. This positive attitude is critical to maintaining your composure under pressure.

One thing that I quickly discovered was that you got a lot more mileage out of an ejection in the second inning than one in the seventh. That way, you don't have to put up with the little b@stards for all those innings. It's a lesson that proved invaluable.

By the end of the season, everyone left me alone. Instead, I had to concentrate on mechanics and balls and strikes. But to this day when I step on a baseball field and minor BS starts happening in the first inning, I resurrect my Mr Hyde personality from the past and dump 'em quick. They are always very surprised but it has the effect of making the last 7 or 8 innings go pleasantly.

For now, don't worry about looking unprofessional. That will come in time. All you need to worry about is getting started.

When my thirteen year old soon started umpiring at the same time, he fell in love with ejections. Those adults are shocked when a pre adolescent teen runs them out of a game. With the reputation that he garnered, his games went smoothly and he was doing Legion ball at age 17. He was able to rapidly improve because he was not dealing with all manner of BS.

He is 22 now and works just a couple games a year with me. We have a father's day ritual where we do a Legion game together. This Sunday, he has the plate. He is looking forward to the ejection, if possible.

The head assignor and I have discovered that if an umpire is a pussy, he can never get good or grow any gonads. However, if he is a well developed red-a$$, we can tone him down some. So---develop your reda$$.

Peter

The first time you hear "where was that pitch?" dump somebody, even if you don't know who said it. Dump the coach, the bat boy or the nearest player (the catcher), or get the hot dog vendor. Just get somebody. Then you will have all the respect you need to continue the game without argument, at least from one half of the field. If someone from the other side argues about anything, get somebody (the hot dog vendor may already be gone). Geez... some advice ain't worth having.

I have 2 games saturday....
 

I am not going to look for trouble, but when I hear the minor BS tomorrow, I will dump someone, just for the hell of it. I will see how it works and see if the BS calms down.

On a related note, somewhat, one of the umpires I try not to work with had to eject someone wednesday, and he called me to take his assignment for the same coach next wednesday, because he thinks the coach will have it out for him. I told him he should do the game and dump him again....he is afraid of the guy. Any advice for him other than to grow gonads?

Thanks HHH.

Re: I have 2 games saturday....
 

Wobster;

It is generally a poor idea to go back to a team where you have recently dumped somebody. If you have problems again, it looks like a personality problem instead of a coach with an attitude problem. That hurts your reputation.

It's better to go somewhere new and dump THAT guy, if and when he acts up. It's the reda$$ reputation that you are looking for, NOT a personal list of enemies. Give your umpire compatriot that advice.

Make sure, if at all reasonably possible, that you dump the same coach that the other umpire dumped when you do the game that you took from him. The umpire will be indebted to you. It will make the coach look like he has a problem with authority, rather than a problem with a specific umpire. Any league president worth a nickel, takes notice of a coach that gets dumped by two different umpires in a short period of time.

Start making a list of coaches and players that other umpires have dumped. You don't want to get into a habit of ejecting too many people that no one has ejected before. OTOH, if you eject people that others have had problems with, it looks like you are only doing your job. You get a reda$$ reputation with none of the bad side effects.

I recall a player that I started umpiring when he was 12 years old. He developed into a serious head case on the field. Before he was 15, he had put three players in the hospital by engaging in malicious contact. Umpires warned him and gave him all sorts of leeway but rarely ejected him. He waited for a warning as his first free shot.

Not me. I dumped him at every opportunity. He was free ejection. No matter how inconsequential his actions, it was assumed that I was right because of his fearsome reputation.

Two years ago as an Industrial League player, (adult league) this head case came after an umpire with a baseball bat. A real judge in robes finally put an end to his baseball career. The umpires, leagues, and coaches never had the stones to do it.

Peter

HHH

My apologies...

I used to think that you were just an a**hole.

After dealing with coaches of travel teams that argue any close call and then seem to incite their players & fans against me through their actions & the game just turns into a sh**house....

Well, I see your point. YOU ARE RIGHT!!! Even if you're friendly for 4-5-6 innings or games, they leap on you like a vampire in heat for one "blown" call!

I'll be looking for an ejection soon!

tornado

That is not what I have said. I would just ignore a coach that is running his mouth from the bench. I do not answer questions from coaches sitting on the bench as a general rule. And I surely do not <b>try</b> to listen to what they have to say in those positions. If they have something to say, they can come and say something directly. And we know that is not happening on balls and strikes.

Peace

HHH, this umpire does all town league games for a town, so he cannot avoid this coach, as he is the home coach from his town. I am working the game wednesday, and I will look for a reason to dump him.

Rut, I take advice from all. I do not discount anyones thoughts. I am full of crap 50 percent of the time, but the other 50 I am right on. You guys are probably 99% right and 1% crap. I'll take my chances that what you are all telling me is not that 1%.

I do have great respect for what you, windycity, and everyone else does at that level. I hope to be there someday. Right now I am just at the small time doing LL and trying to get some advice. It is a little frustrating when umpires constantly argue with each other and cloud the facts. It makes it harder for us little guys to learn.

I am attending a clinic next month in texas with carl, I hope to learn a lot there.

And that is what you should do anyway. I would even tell you to take what you like, throw out what you do not like. Not everything someone tells you is going to apply to you personally. I know if I listen to HHH personally, I would never have achieved the things I have at this point in my career. So you have to have wisdom to know what works for you. ;)

Unlike those others, there is nothing wrong with doing LL. That is where many got their start and learned the basics of the game. But I am sure that making the jump to HS would not be too much of a stretch. They throw the ball a little harder, the bases are longer and despite what many will say here, it is real baseball. If it was not, most Major League players would have never started there.

Have fun.

Peace

Happened last week
 

MLB must have changed their stances in their pro schools since Bobby Cox was ejected the other night while sitting in the dugout.

Umpire looked at him on pitch before, and then made a "huge" ejection following the next pitch. If was really funny looking since he did it as part of his strike/ball call.

Of course I think MLB's umpires eject guys now just to add a little excitement to the games. (kind of like hockey fights)

Thanks
David

Ignore it and bear down -- the chirping is seldom too bad unless you're really missing more than usual.

A certain amount of chirping is part of the game, especially on a near miss ball or borderline low strike late in a close game.

If it gets personal or obscene, the mask comes off and someone goes. I agree with Windy City Blue that ejecting from the dugout is bush, but so is the action of a player or coach who abuses the security of the dugout by crossing way over the line.

If I'm not sure who it is, I'll generally dump a player who has already been subbed for. Then I'll tell the manager I just did him a favor, and that he can return it by gettin a grip on his team.

I had to dump a guy today, my first.

Here's the sitch. R3 comes home on a shot to right. F2 standing in line with 3rd baseline about 3 feet on the other side, well out of the way, in my opinion. R3 had plenty of space to avoid him.

R3 steps before the bases, misses it, and drills the catcher. When R3 enters dugout, I call him out for missing home, appeal not required in our LL. Hilarity ensues. After that dies down, next batter takes a pitch. THEN the first base coach catches on. He says appeal is required, catcher was in the way, he saw him touch it, everything to try and fight it. I ignore him and get ready to play. Then a guy in the stands starts in. Yelling, and screaming. I go over and ask his problem. He said I am horrible and that was a ridiculous call. Boom, he's gone.

It's amazing how much the coaches stopped chirping after that. Thanks HHH.

I didn't hear one question on a strike or ball call the rest of the game!

ummmmm..........

So you dumped a spectator, but left a player in the game who "drilled" the catcher 3 feet on the other side of home. Ayayaya...

Correct Mechanics?
 

Is there a correct mechanic for tossing someone?

While at first I thought this post would be for giggles, I have changed my stance on it and am phrasing it as a legitimate question.

Is there a prescribed manner in which to dump somone? Are there various methods depending on the severity of offense?

And finally, what is the "mechanic" for restricting somone to the dugout (FED)?

Re: Correct Mechanics?
 

"You" (right undex pointing at the offender), "are gone" (followed by a sweep of the right hand from right to left). That is an ejection.

"You" (right index pointing at the offender), "are restricted to the dugout" (followed by a stiff point to the dugout). That is a restriction to the dugout.

ok, I may have phrased that wrong. You guys are probably thinking high school and college drilling, lowering the shoulder and plowing. This was kind of a shove, could be taken as not having time to stop, since catcher was right on the other side of the base. He didn't hit him very hard. I use drilled very loosely. I can't remember is the catcher even hit the ground, as I was watching the runners feet, and I looked up in time to see him hit the guy. I then watched the runner to see if he was going to come back and touch the plate. That, to me, was not the issue here.

I did let the coach go who was on me about it, and I let the first outburst of fans go. This guy was still giving me hell after I was trying to restart the game.

Drilling = malicious contact in my vocabulary. What is described is not a drilling. Give the coach "the message" if you don't want to hear anymore about the non-call.

My BU told me after the game that I am too thin skinned!

This guy had 3 strikes against him, so to speak.

He insulted me,
He questioned my call,
He held up the game, since the players were all watching him.

My mother, who used to be in charge of all local traveling leagues, said it was a bad ejection, I shouldn't have done it.

I have asked a few other umpires, they said it was good. My father, who coached for 10 years and was in charge of traveling at town leagues for a time said it was a good ejection.

What do you guys think? From what he said was it grounds enough to eject?

Wobster;

You must learn to ignore most of the advice that you are getting within the league where you are currently located.

I am making the assumption that you want to get better and move up to high school, NCAA or something like that. If your goal is to stay in LL and work with kids, then it WOULD be a good idea to listen to those guys. They know what they are talking about in that arena only.

However, they have no clue about what it takes to become a top level umpire. If they knew anything about "real baseball", they would probably not be working in LL.

Real baseball at high levels is about control. One of the skills that you must master is ejections. (This is one of about half a dozen control skills that you must master, but master it you must and the other skills flow from its mastery. Therefore, it is pointless to learn much about these other skills until you have mastered ejections.)

It is simply not relevant at this stage of your career as to whether it was a good ejection or not. Or whether you handled it properly.

You must practice ejections to see the results and learn for yourself the positive and negative results of ejections. You must learn to manage the adrenalin and exitement that goes with an ejection. Only by studying the effects on the players, coaches, and fans, can you truly understand the power of an ejection.

You ejected someone. You noted that the whole game calmed down and people behaved. Let's assume that it was a "bad" ejection from everyone else's point of view. Let's also assume that you handled it improperly.

OK, so what. It produced the desired results and you learned something about ejections. From your point of view, it was the right move. Peace and harmony was restored and your game knowledge advanced. F$$$ everything else.

The kids are there to learn baseball and they make a ton of mistakes. Why shouldn't you be there to learn umpiring? And make a ton of mistakes?

WindyCityBlue was telling you about looking professional. With all due respect, WCB has a ton of experience and his experience may not be relevant to you right now. He was trying to teach you how ride a unicycle when your bicycle still has training wheels. You have to learn how to ride a bicycle before you can ride a unicycle. After you learn how to ride a bicycle, then you learn how to do wheelies. After you have mastered wheelies, you are ready for WCB's training on how to ride a unicycle.

The point is, that much of the advice that you are getting in your league is wrong. Much of the advice that you are getting on the Internet is irrelevant to where your game is at. You must develop a game plan to get from where you are to where you want to be. Find a local high school group to join in your area.

Peter

I agree with Peter.

I ejected a Legion coach on Friday night. He's a high school coach during the season (I really don't understand the no-contact rule here for HS coaches in the summer with their HS teams, but am assuming that none exists) and his team reached the regional finals before losing to a near-.500 team that amazingly went on to win the state title.

Many of the HS kids couldn't make this tourney, so he got pounded twice. He got dumped in the 7th inning down 4 runs in the second game when he sent his runner from second before the pitcher started his motion home and a rundown ensued where he wanted (1) obstruction, or (2) the runner at third called "safe" for some reason.

After telling him that neither was going to be called and that we were starting the game up (so I could get the final 2 outs and get out of Dodge), he calls out to the BU that he needs to help me and starts walking slowly towards him in right field (I had come up to take the front end of the rundown and called the out at third) and I told him not to go out there.

He ignored me and walked toward the other umpire. I repeated myself when he was about 10 feet away still walking toward the other umpire and kept walking as if I wasn't even there. THEN I dumped him.

Moral of the story is that I didn't really feel my heart race or my blood pressure increase as I was ejecting him. Unfortunately, being a new coach used to umpires kissing his backside (since coaches essentially determine assignments here) he probably still doesn't understand why he was run, but someone did talk to him afterwards and explain why he got dumped -- and that person understood and tried to impart some wisdom on the coach.
--------------------------

The lesson from the above is: If you tell someone to do something and they openly defy you, they gotta go. Otherwise you've just shown everyone that you're not in charge.

Also, try to keep your ears inside the fence. If someone is being truly offensive or goes beyond the standard for behavior, find a game manager to get rid of the idiot. Or if none exists, call time and tell the coach to take care of the guy -- if he refuses, see the paragraph above (in other words, lose the coach and find somebody that WILL take care of the fan or end the game). Remain calm and try not to battle with a fan -- it's a confrontation that makes you look bad regardless of how justified it is.

--Rich

PS - There are 3 guys in my area that I work with regularly. These 3 guys are the only umpires in the area I would take anywhere and know they had my back. All four of us dumped somebody this weekend. It's that time of the year (summer baseball) and teams in general act up in the summer, especially coaches of traveling teams. If you need to run somebody, do it, and like Peter said, learn something from it.

I don't believe in our area that we have a high school group. Our area is so small that once an umpire gets high school certified, he is contracted directly by the school, not an organization. I may be wrong, but I have never heard of an association around here.

If anyone knows of one in Northeast Indiana, let me know, please.

A lot of the umpires I get advice from also do high school games. Most of them are very experienced in high school, but do LL in the summer to earn a little extra.

So I should have went to the manager and had him get rid of the fan? Come to think of it, that would have been more professional, but I am not sure it would have gotten the point across that we are there to play baseball, not argue with the umpires call. What do you think? I do not know, personally.

Maybe I should have taken out the 15 year old coach on first base giving me hell, and had the manager take out the fan? To me, the coach didn't cross the line, but he was an assistant, so he doesn't have the same rights as a manager.

Any ideas how I could have handled this better?

I might add that my BU was not certified, nor has he ever done a plate game. He is a board member that does bases to save the league money.

I hope this helps.
 

Not sure that this is the best information, but here is a guide to find an association. Looks like there is at least one in your area. There is a PDF file at this site with contact information.

Indiana Official's Association Information

Peace

THANKS!!
 

There is one in my area, about a mile from my work! Thanks, Rut.

Wobster;

Yes, it was a poor idea to confront the fan directly. Make a coach do it. However, you have more important things to worry about right now.

Start thinking like Saddam Hussein or Joseph Stalin. You wrote: "To me, the coach didn't cross the line,..." Your mind is on the wrong track.

Joseph Stalin did not worry about whether his actions were justified or whether his subjects deserved the Guglag or worse. Joseph Stalin and Saddam Hussein were trying to instill terror in their subjects and they selected the handiest targets. If no one was guilty of anything, then they made something up and punished someone for it. Everyone else got the message and behaved. Joseph Stalin was thinking about the future of his reign. He couldn't have care less about justice or whether someone deserved what he got. You need to start thinking along the same lines when it comes to coaches.

At that moment in your game, the coach that you mentioned was the handiest target for your learning experience. He was also the handiest target to establish your reputation as a reda$$. Take it. Dump him. Sometimes it's better to dump someone for a minor indiscretion than it is for a major sin. By dumping someone for extremely minor BS, you send a message to the serious head cases that you are an irrational a$$hole.

That's not a bad reputation to have when you are trying to get started in umpiring and are making a lot of mistakes. If they know that you will dump them for something minor, that all other umpires would ignore, you can bet they will be on their best behavior.

That gives you the opportunity to work on mechanics, balls/strikes, and other important things that you must master to move up the food chain. You simply cannot get better at umpiring if you are constantly fighting brush fires about behavior.

Peter

Now I've learned something!
 

Thanks HHH, I never thought of it that way. So I should have handled it like this -

First base coach argues, I tell him to be quiet and play baseball, he doesn't, he is gone.

Fans start giving me BS, I tell manager to remove him. If he does, great, if not, toss the head coach.

Sounds more appropriate than the way I did it.

Re: Now I've learned something!
 

Wobster;

Now you are getting it. You've made great progress but remember this:

You would not have learned anything if you had not tried and made some mistakes. The mistakes that you made are simply irrelevant in the big scheme of things anyway. After all, it's a game, not a girl getting pregnant or a drunk driver killing somebody.

Go eject some more, make some more mistakes, analyze your errors, and continue to improve. With that kind of progress in 5 or 10 years, you will pass me by and most of the other posters here as well. At age 53, I am on the downhill slope.

Peter

Re: Re: Now I've learned something!
 

That is not because you are 53. :rolleyes:

Peace

I usually indicate location by moving my head. If a pitch is inside to a left handed hitter I pause turn my head to the right and say ball. Etc Etc Etc...

Most people in the stands have no clue, but a coach who knows the game and has seen me work knows what I'm doing and for the most part I rarely hear the, "where was that at?" Same people say not to do it, but it's my style and it's got me to where I am today.

Chirping from the dugout is nothing. Unless they question my integrity. For the most part chirping is apart of the game...heck the fans are good at it. =)

You need better role models than Joseph Stalin and Saddam Hussein. How about Chesty Puller or George Patton?