balk on ball four...

[thumpferee]

Working a Junior Lil League game saturday. R2 with count of 3-1 on B1. Pitcher does not pause from the set with runner stealing. I balk him from the C and award R2 3rd. Pitcher does not pitch. Partner behind plate awards B1 1st saying it is ball four. HMMMMM I ask to speak to him to get his take on the ruling. He stated that a balk on a 3 ball count is a ball. I mentioned that would be the case with no runner/s on base, illegal pitch, award a ball to the batter. With a runner or runners on base, the penalty for a balk is to advance all runners one base. Has anyone else heard of such a rule or did he have a brain fart? Or did I?

[Gottagame2day]

I'm not well versed in LL. Here is the penalty for a balk (OBR).

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

I see nothing that entitles the batter to a BB.

PU blew it. (unless there is something in LL I'm not aware of).

M

[DG]

I think in OBR the ball is not immediately dead, ie the PENALTY says that "unless the batter reaches first on a hit...etc". Therefore if I balk the pitcher and he throws anyway, and the batter gets a hit, then the hit stands. I have never seen any rule, anywhere, that would award a ball on a balk.

[FVB58]

Pitcher does not pitch. Partner behind plate awards B1 1st saying it is ball four. [/B][/QUOTE]


Because the pitcher does not pitch I assume you killed the play. Awarding the base runners is it....no ball to the batter. OBR and NCAA you would allow the pitch to occur and wait for the result. That did not happen in your case. I am guessing here, but you probably said "thats a balk" and raised both arms for a dead ball which stopped the pitcher. That is the FED mechanic. OBR and NCAA you would point to the pitcher and say "that's a balk" and wait for any play to develop from the pitch. Then award bases accordingly.

[irefky]

there is no balk in LL baseball, illegal pitch. If there was an illegal pitch with the count 3balls, yes, there is a BB. An illegal pitch is counted as a ball.
But the original post stated it was a Jr LL, not sure what age group but LL is 9-12 year old. In this division, the BR should be awarded one base, no ball should have been given. Dead ball, runners move up one base. B1 has a 3-1 count.

[blueskysblue]

LL has, above the Major (9-12) level, Junior Division, Senior Division, and Big League. All three of these levels have "Balk".

With runners on base, the batter does not get a "ball"; the runners are advanced one base.

[DG]

In my part of the country, there is very little LL baseball, therefore, I am not well versed in LL rules. But I do have a LL rule book. According to the book "when a balk is called and the pitch is delivered it will be considered neither a ball or strike unless the pitch is ball four (4) awarding the batter first base and all runners on base to advance." This is a Junior League penalty (ie ages above 12). So it appears your partner was correct, for this age group. I am so glad I don't have another set of rules to learn, since I don't do any LL baseball in my area.....

[DG]

A BIG OOPS on my part. You said the pitcher did not pitch. The 8.05 PENALTY was "if the pitcher pitched the ball". Since he did not pitch I think we have runners advance and nothing to the batter. But hey, LL rules are new to me....

[3appleshigh]

In obr, it would also be a ball 4 if called as such and if all runners move at least one bag the Balk would be ignored (Eg R1 and R2). However, if memory serves this was an R2 situation where a walk would not effect them gaining a bag. So enforce the balk.

I had this happen in my Game #1 of the season in HS ball, Balk on a lefty, pitch was thrown and the guy hit it off the wall. Everyone got a bag, no Balk, but the sheer amount of confusion amungst the teams was funny.

P.S. Game 2 had a Batter interference on a throw to third. Nice calls to start the year eh!

[FVB58]

I had this happen in my Game #1 of the season in HS ball, Balk on a lefty, pitch was thrown and the guy hit it off the wall. Everyone got a bag, no Balk, but the sheer amount of confusion amungst the teams was funny. [/B][/QUOTE]

If I am reading this right, which I may not be, you balked a pitcher and then he threw the pitch which resulted in a base hit? A balk in FED is an immediate dead ball, no pitch. Which means the balk is the final action allowed. You would be correct for OBR or NCAA, but this is HS right?

Bob J., any thoughts here?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by FVB58
I had this happen in my Game #1 of the season in HS ball, Balk on a lefty, pitch was thrown and the guy hit it off the wall. Everyone got a bag, no Balk, but the sheer amount of confusion amungst the teams was funny.

If I am reading this right, which I may not be, you balked a pitcher and then he threw the pitch which resulted in a base hit? A balk in FED is an immediate dead ball, no pitch. Which means the balk is the final action allowed. You would be correct for OBR or NCAA, but this is HS right?

Bob J., any thoughts here? [/B][/QUOTE]

Assuming 3apples officiates in an area where the High Schools use FED rules (not Mass., RI, WY, ...), you are correct.

[3appleshigh]

I forgot again, I only have OBR games every level every age. I'm up in the Great White North and we have the luxtury of not having two sets of rules.

So up here it is a delayed dead ball situation.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by 3appleshigh
I forgot again, I only have OBR games every level every age. I'm up in the Great White North and we have the luxtury of not having two sets of rules.

Yes, but up north you have two languages. Are the rulebooks printed in both English and French?

Peter

[3appleshigh]

I only have english, but in Quebec it will be published in French too i guess. Do you guys have the Spanish copy???

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by DG
In my part of the country, there is very little LL baseball, therefore, I am not well versed in LL rules. But I do have a LL rule book. According to the book "when a balk is called and the pitch is delivered it will be considered neither a ball or strike unless the pitch is ball four (4) awarding the batter first base and all runners on base to advance." This is a Junior League penalty (ie ages above 12). So it appears your partner was correct, for this age group. I am so glad I don't have another set of rules to learn, since I don't do any LL baseball in my area.....

Perfect. Thanks! Seems we both learned somethin new. I am struggling with 3 different rule interps here, lil league, ASA, and Fed. Pray for me!