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[Edited by Tim C on Apr 7th, 2004 at 09:28 AM]

Last thought
 

One last thought from me on this....who needs to be tagged and/or is there a force at 3B?
Thanks again to all.

IT'S A FORCE PLAY. TAG EITHER R2 OR 3B.

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[Edited by Tim C on Apr 7th, 2004 at 09:28 AM]

Sorry, I don't get it.....why would R2 be out under any circumstance? If R1 is forced to 3B, how can he stay on 2B and make R2 vulnerable?

If the issue that I'm raising bothers you, I don't know what to say!! Everyone here seems to give a slightly different answer to the original question, and that proves my point that the issue is unclear!

I have to say, yet again, that someone is going to be out....instead of everyone (defense, offense, and umps)hanging around trying to figure out whose vulerable, who's safe, etc., why not just call the front runner (R1) out?


[Edited by gumpire on Apr 4th, 2004 at 01:54 PM]

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[Edited by Tim C on Apr 7th, 2004 at 09:29 AM]

Because the situations are different. If the lead runner's not forced off the base by a batted ball, he's entitled to stay there. Then the other runner, when tagged would be out, but you could tag the lead runner out as much as you want and he would not be out.

You simply can't make things up. And opinions mean little -- the rules (properly read and interpreted) are what matter.

The lead runner was forced off the base....therefore he was vulnerable to be put out whether he left the base or not!!! I got all that....

The question remains, can they both stand on the base? The OBR says they cannot, so when they're both standing there and nothing is happenning, someone needs to make something happen!

Since the offense wasn't moving, the defense didn't know what the H was going on, I called the lead runner out!

So, why such an argument about "I don't get it"? I get it just fine...I simply wanted to know if you thought a tag was necessary....we can't seem to resolve that issue!

I have seen several posts on here (including in this thread) where people want to refer to the fact that the rules aren't clear on what to do (i.e., thrown bat, etc.) and not seen where anyone tells that person they don't get it.

So just relax and look at the facts, and please, stop just trying to prove me wrong and answer the initial question.

As far as my comparison to the infield fly rule, I was told that the intention was to prevent defense from gaining an unfair advantage..same thing here. If I'm defense and I can leave 2 guys on every base...you can bet I will!!! That's 6 runners and 1 batter I can get out all on the same play!!!! Triple play, nothing!!!!

"Since the offense wasn't moving, the defense didn't know what the H was going on, I called the lead runner out!""

YOU CAN'T DO THAT! THE DEFENSE HAS TO ACT!

If the defense chooses to not make a play, just let them stand there. It's not your job to fix it.

The lightbulb will eventually go on in someone's head (but don't let it be yours) - then all he** will break loose.

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[Edited by Tim C on Apr 7th, 2004 at 09:29 AM]

7.03 says two runners can not occupy a base, but there is no penalty listed. The penalty, of course, is when the defense tags the one who does not belong there. There is no advantage to the defense to leave 2 runners on a base on purpose, so it is not the same as the protection provided by the infield fly rule. For example, if the defense left a runner on each base, they could be subject to a 7 run homer, or a 6 run base hit. This is not an advantage. The defense is out there to retire the side, without runs being scored if possible.

While leaving 2 runners on base is possible, I have never seen it, and as I mentioned earlier, I would stand there looking at both of them until the defense made a play. They will figure it out. There is no reason for calling one of them out until the defense makes the play.

Part of the confusion might be over the abbreviation -- for everyone EXCEPT FED, R1 is the runner who starts on first, R2 on second, R3 on third.

So, in the play at hand, R2 is forced to third. That's why he's out when he's tagged (or when third is tagged).

THANK YOU ALL!!!! I appreciate the information and look forward to participating more!!!!!

Could you not, given a decent amount of time, call the runner out for abandonement. Just a thought. I would avoid it and just wait for the defense to get with the program, but its a possibility.

How has the runner "abandoned"?