This Board has been rather quiet of late so I will attempt to "stir up the pot" so to speak.

We all know the provisions of 9.02c in which no umpire shall reverse a call made by another umpire unless asked to do so.

My question? Have you ever overturned your partners call (without him asking you) in favor of justice. I have done this only once in my 12 yr. career thus far.

The Reason I did it is as follows:

Sitch r1,r2 1 out. I was working with an "old timer" who was the BU in the C position. B1 hit the ball to F3.

To my surpirse, my partner didn't move and actually turned his back on the play and was strictly looking at r2 go to third. As PU seeing this I moved up the first base line to make the call at first, since my partner was in no position to. F3 tagged the first base bag (Force now off) and threw to F5 in an attempt to get r2. I also made the out call emphatically so my partner would know that the force is off.

The throw beat r2 but F5 did not apply the tag but merely stepped on the base. My partner signalled out. To this day I do not know why he signalled out and also didn't even bother to check with me. I tried getting his attention but to no avail.

The offensive coach came out and questioned him. The coach even said to him "Please Check with the PU". My partner was very adament and then stated that a tag was applied (to cover his - you know what). Everyone in the park knew that there was no such tag applied. In fact F5 never even made an attempt at a tag.


The game was played by 2 good teams and the score was close. I know I'm not supposed to overturn his call but in interest of fairness I corrected the call. I did not mean to "show him up" but he didn't leave me much choice since he didn't confer with me in the first place.

Have you ever overturned your partners call without his permission? Also, was I correct in what I did or should I have kept my mouth shut and "bit the bullet"?

Pete Booth

Pete,

I can honestly say I've NEVER overruled a partner, so I won't address the first question. Instead I'll confine myself to the second one, which is quoted above.

NO, you were NOT correct and YES you should have kept your mouth shut and "bit the bullet".

There are a couple of important principles and issues involved here so please forgive me if I reiterate a them, if not for you then at least for the benefit of others.

I have talked about interpretation of legislation before, and I mentioned a concept of following the <i><b>specific</b></i> in preference to the <i><b>general</b></i> where there is an apparent conflict. That is clearly the case with this situation.

You have a <i><b>specific</b></i> direction NOT to overrule or criticise your partner in OBR 9.02(c). You have contrasted that with a <i><b>general</i></b> requirement to "get it right" that comes from the General Instructions to Umpires following OBR 9.05. Pete, the <i><b>specific</b></i> always outweighs and overrules the <i><b>general</b></i> in such cases.

NEVER overrule your partner without his request (except on one of Carl's 5 legitimately reversable calls - but that's another story).

The second issue concerns your responsibilities as an umpire. These are outlined primarily in OBR 9.01(a). You are charged with two (2) overall responsibilities:

1. Conduct of the game (in accordance with the rules)

2. Maintenance of discipline and order on the playing field (during a game)

These two responsibilities will often compete. If you want to know how to weigh them ethically and responsibly, you should be following my series on Umpire Ethics at <a href="http://www.eumpire.com/"><font color="red">e</font><font color="navy">Umpire.com</font></a> starting on Monday last. It will help you to deal with these apparent conflicts in an ethical way.

The fact is that in overruling your partner you compromised responsibility 2 above in favor of a more rigid and uncompromising enforcement of the rules <i><b>as you saw them</b></i>. Your partner disagreed, saying he saw a tag on the runner, and it was HIS judgement call. Whether you think he made the right call or not is NOT your decision to make. If he had merely misinterpreted or misapplied the rule, and a coach wanted to protest, THEN you could have discussed with him what to do. Once he claimed he saw a tag on the player, however, there was nothing you could do without his consent.

I will always maintain that responsibility 2 is far more important than responsibility 1, because of the consequences it carries. Make a hash of responsibility 1 and someone loses a game. No "biggie". Make a hash of responsibility 2 and people's health and welfare suffer. That IS a "biggie" in my book.

Now please, read my series on Umpire Ethics for a more detailed exposition and a set of guidelines, eh? (BIG grin)

Cheers,

Warren Willson

[Edited by Warren Willson on Dec 5th, 2000 at 09:40 PM]

Over-Turning your partners call
 

Our local Umpires association sponsers an annual pre season Umpires Tournament (this coming year will be the 16th annual).

The purpose of the tournament is 3-fold. We service 6 cities in our area and the tournament rotates between them. The intent is to use it as a training tool for us to train our rookie umpires (and shake off some of the rust of the veterans). The tournament fee is low and all umpires donate thier time (umpires who attend our regional school and call in this tournament are reimbursed for their school fee). After expenses, we return all profits to the host Association (they also get concession stand money). Also, the coaches that enter their teams get to see them on the field before the regular season starts.

Because of the training type nature of the tournament, the coaches are usually very understanding of the "rookie mistakes" that sometimes happen. Every game is called with one rookie and one veteran.

Last year, my rookie partner made a rule call that put a runner in jeopardy so I killed the play and corrected the situation. I thought (at that time) because of the laid back attitude and because we were using this to train our new umps I made the right call.

After much discussion with the other veterans in our association (and some of you on the message boards), I realized I made a big mistake in teaching this new umpire a valuable lesson. I should have let everything play out and let the newbie get a taste of handling a difficult situation. In the future, if something like this happens again, I will let everything play out just like it was a game late in the year that really means something.

Joel

I, too, have overturned my partner's call only once in my storied 20+ year career, and it was in a D1 game. Partner was on the dish, I was in the middle of the infield with a runner on third and nobody out. Batter hit a foul fly down the left field line - plate man's fair/foul, catch/no catch. The ball was clearly foul, and the third baseman, with his back to home plate, ended up on his rear with the ball in front of his body - in the glove. Clearly a catch that my partner did not see. He yelled, "NO CATCH!", and just as quickly I yelled, "YES IT IS - HE CAUGHT THE BALL!", which I was easily able to sell as I was moving toward third anyway (for a possible throwback to the pitcher covering). Third baseman, shortstop, left fielder, and third base coach knew it was a catch, so there was no discussion. After the game, my partner, a D1 Regional umpire, thanked me for keeping us out of a s***house, and added, "Don't ever do that again!"

Warren Wilson:

"NEVER overrule your partner without his request (except on one of Carl's 5 legitimately reversable calls - but that's another story)."

Warren, being newer than you to these boards I may have missed these 5 reversible items referenced. Could you take the time to explain these. If not, please feel free to email me if you would. Thanks.

Bfair from the Eteamz Board here is Papa C's FAB 5.

Five calls can be legally changed, according to rules and custom:

1. Two umpires make opposite calls on the same play;
2. An umpire misinterprets a rule;
3. A half swing called a ball is changed to a strike on "appeal";
4. After a tag, another umpire sees the ball on the ground; and
5. A fair/foul home run/double is reversed after consultation in/among the crew.


Pete Booth

Pete, thanks for these 5. I thought there may have been something I was unaware of. Apparently Carl summarized.

On item 2, correcting misinterpretations of rules, does UIC have final authority and should UIC step in UNREQUESTED if he feels BU has misinterpreted a rule, award/penalty, etc??

Absolutely not. [wait.. I am getting a vision of contrary opinions... so be it].

EZ example. Me UIC (I suppose we define that as plate). Partner calls a runner OUT on the bases due to a misapplication of rules. I know this as I observe.

"Retired" runner leaves field... next batter comes to box. Offensive coaches (bases and dugout) say NOTHING...

Play on! -> and partner gets instructed AFTER game.

Not so EZ example. SAME as above BUT... coach has a brain and recognizes the error. He comes out properly and discusses with partner. But partner is one of those Board-in-Ass Umps who thinks his @#% don't stink. BU argues with coach that HIS call is correct, and coach can pound sand. Coach does ask him.. "Would you please check with your partner? That's Mike B over there and he's forgetten more about rules than either of us will ever know!" Partner refuses to get help.. says call stands. Coach walks off steamed and frustrated.

AGAIN! -> same result.. play on. Instruct partner AFTER game. Call assignor... don't work with this motorhead again.

Final example. Same as above.. but as coach walks off he announces.. "I am going to protest!" and proceeds to do so properly.... now...... the horse has changed colors.... now.. I will (for the first time) go see partner and he and I will discuss privately what I know...(point is.. I do NOT want this game to get replayed.. and I will try to prevent that). I will convince partner to reconsider. He will of course, accept my interpretation.

But god forbid he will not... again... play on.. game protested. Partner makes my "list".

Bfair,

UIC usually does have "final authority" on the diamond, and it comes from OBR 9.04(c).

Should UIC step in "UNREQUESTED" is a much more difficult question to answer. It depends.

1. If, as the Moose says, there is a protest notified, then you don't need to wait for your partner to invite you to discuss this. The coach has just done that for him. You are required to get together and sort out what should have been called. You can even hold up the game and pull out the rule book, find it in black and white and then make a final decision together. If after all that your partner STILL objects, and you are certain the case is crystal clear, you should use OBR 9.04(c) and make the call. The UIC is responsible to resolve any protest situations <i>on the diamond</i> if possible.

2. If in the same circumstances as above using the rule book fails to produce a clear cut result, then you should let your partner's call stand and have the protest committee produce an interpretation. (If they do, remember to make notes for next time and advise your association).

3. In the absence of a protest or appeal, or any invitation from your partner to intervene, I certainly wouldn't "step in UNREQUESTED" unless I had a rule misapplication so obvious that there was simply <i>no other possibility</i>. Even then I would simply draw my partner aside and tell him what I saw and what I thought the correct rule application was; nothing more. Remember, you are seeing it from YOUR perspective. UIC or not, nothing says that YOUR perspective is necessarily right on any given issue. Discuss it afterward if there is no appeal from a manager and you can't discuss it right away at your partner's invitation.

Bottom line is that we can't be so sure of ourselves as UIC that we think we have all the facts. I'm not going to even "<b><i>seek</b></i> to reverse" or overrule my partner, much less actually do it. If I'm 100% certain he got it wrong on a rule application, then I'll tell him what I saw and what I think the correct rule application should be! That's all. It's up to HIM to take it from there. That's what the requirements of OBR 9.02(b) and (c) hold. Unless there is a protest situation, an appeal from a manager, or the misapplication is so patently obvious it requires I tell my partner what I saw, then I'll wait and discuss it afterward. A ball in the dirt on a tag would be obvious, but a rule misapplication is usually not. Remember also that OBR 9.02(b) is the precursor to OBR 9.02(c). They go hand in glove together.

If you DO decide to step in uninvited, on one of those VERY rare occasions when you believe you have to for the good of the game, be considerate of your partner in the way you do it and simply tell him what you saw. Then let HIM make any decision on rule application reversal, not you.

Cheers,

Warren Willson

[Edited by Warren Willson on Dec 6th, 2000 at 04:04 PM]

Warren, I couldn't agree with you more. It's not something you ever want to do, and you certainly don't want to get the tag that you're in the habit of changing your partner's calls. But, there are those very few occasions that cry for a remedy. If you ever haver to cross that bridge, it must be done in a professional manner.

In this case Pete made an emphatic call, tried to get his partner's attention, etc. but to no avail. He knew the whole world, partner excepted, saw the force removed. At that point, when all play had subsided he could have gone to his partner, face to face - no shouting across the diamond, with "Did you know the force was removed? We had an out at first."

Then it's up to the partner, and it's been done quietly.

"Oh? Then he's safe here at second," or "So? I had a tag.He's out," or "Yeah, I heard ya'. Go away."

End of conversation, either way, and the partner has changed his own call or not based on his own view (feelings) of the play.

There's not much else you can do. It'll be his cross to bear.

My opinion.

Thom Coste
Member UT

No argument, Thom, IF that point comes BEFORE the partner says he saw a tag. AFTER that point, then you have a judgement call and not a rule misapplication. Stay out of it once it's a judgement call. In Pete's scenario he didn't. That was the crux of my earlier reply to him.

If Pete could have quietly let his partner know the force was off before the partner claimed he had a tag, no problem. We both agree that he should have.

Cheers,

Warren Willson

FWIW, While once accused of an inappropriate overrule during a LL game with a parent from the stands doing bases (several years ago and I was not guilty), I've never sought to overrule another ump. But cupl years ago, I was bases in Summer over 30 ball. R3, 1 out, fly ball to F7 down the line. Caught after fumbling, R3 tags and scores. Defense appeals to PU that R3 left early. PU calls R3 out. Inning over, no score. Offense explodes in dugout and coach heads for PU. I hear their complaint, but didn't see R3 leave as I was checking BR for touch of 1st. PU had ball and R3. I intercepted the coach and walked calmly to my partner, and asked if R3 left at the first touch by F7. He said yes, and I quietly reminded him of the rule, he then reversed himself. Was that the proper way fellas? BTW, I'm balkman on McGriff's.

That sounds about right. You did not seek to overturn your partner's decision. You provided information to your partner and let him change his own call. That is acceptable.

Be wary of the partner who insists he knows the rule but doesn't, or insists that something that didn't happen did. You can do nothing with him, much less overrule one of his calls.

As Warren notes above, any rescue has to come before the hole is too deep.

I'm going to disagree with Thom and suggest that this could have been handled better. Don't get me wrong. The result was fit and proper in the circumstances. It's just that I don't believe you complied with the spirit and intent of OBR 9.02(b) and (c). Let's have a look at those provisions again in this context.

<ol>
<li>OBR 9.02(b) says the manager may appeal the decision, but ONLY with the umpire who made it. You short-circuited that by intercepting the coach before he got to your parter.
<li>OBR 9.02(c) says that the umpire making the decision, and therefore the umpire properly appealed to, "may" ask his partner for information. You short-circuited that by going to your partner before you were invited.
<li>OBR 9.02(c) says that no umpire should "criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with" another umpire's decision unless asked to do so. You breached this provision by taking the choice out of your partner's hands.
</ol>

There has to be a process for dealing with such situations. In your circumstance in LL, using a "dad out of the stands", that is especially important but it is no less so in Over 30 Summer Ball. In my league we have a signal that tells one umpire that the other umpire has information that may help. It is arms folded across the chest. You needed such a signal, and a pre-game discussion with both partners about what to do when it is given in the incidents you mentioned.

The principles that we described previously for dealing with an apparent misapplication of the rules do not strictly apply here. At the root of this call was a judgement decision. You couldn't be <b><i>sure</b></i> you actually had a rule misapplication until AFTER you intervened and found out precisely what your partner saw. That doesn't fit the circumstances described earlier for overturning a call on an <i>obvious</i> rule misapplication.

Since there was a legitimate "doubt" that your partner may have applied a rule correctly, the appeal under OBR 9.02(b) was appropriate. Once the manager started that process by calling "Time" and coming onto the diamond, you should NOT have sought to interfere until invited to do so in accordance with OBR 9.02(c). Instead, you should have given your "I can help" signal and let your partner break off and come to you for advice. If he doesn't, that's his choice. If and when it becomes a protest situation THEN you can discuss it, whether he asks you first or not. Not before.

Cheers,

Warren Willson

[Edited by Warren Willson on Dec 10th, 2000 at 06:01 PM]

Warren, thank you for your excellent assessment of the situation. Something that I've never heard discussed before (in 3 different assns.) was how to deal with the "I know something you don't know" or "I have info that may save your A__" circumstances. It will become a part of my pre-game, and I will suggest it to my local assn.