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-   -   HBP in strike zone (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/105383-hbp-strike-zone.html)

Altor Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:17am

HBP in strike zone
 
https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-walk-o...in-home-opener

Bottom 9, tie game, bases loaded, 1-out, 1-2 pitch appears to be in the strike zone but hits the batters elbow pad. Umpire starts to ring the batter up and then stops and indicates the HBP to end the game.

I understand that the only part of the play that is reviewable is whether it hit the batter or not. They could not review whether the pitch was in the zone or whether the batter made an attempt to avoid it.

But, since it was obvious Kulpa originally thought the pitch was in the zone, could Mattingly have asked him to change the call on the fact that the rule was misapplied. Can he protest if he still doesn't get the result he wanted after that?

bob jenkins Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altor (Post 1042754)
https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-walk-o...in-home-opener

Bottom 9, tie game, bases loaded, 1-out, 1-2 pitch appears to be in the strike zone but hits the batters elbow pad. Umpire starts to ring the batter up and then stops and indicates the HBP to end the game.

I understand that the only part of the play that is reviewable is whether it hit the batter or not. They could not review whether the pitch was in the zone or whether the batter made an attempt to avoid it.

But, since it was obvious Kulpa originally thought the pitch was in the zone, could Mattingly have asked him to change the call on the fact that the rule was misapplied. Can he protest if he still doesn't get the result he wanted after that?

You can always protest. Whether it will be allowed by the league office or upheld is a different matter.

Altor Mon Apr 12, 2021 08:21am

No other takers. Thank you Bob.

Let's ask it a different way and see if anybody else wants to opine:
If you had started to ring up the batter, then stopped because of the HBP, would you change your call when it was brought to your attention: "You were going to call it a strike, you obviously thought it was in the zone. Rule 5.05(b)(2) says this should be a strike."

ilyazhito Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:23am

Hit by pitch in the strike zone is a strike, end of story. The game should continue with 2 outs and the next batter up. As previous users have said, only the HBP aspect is reviewable. If the HBP is overturned, then the strikeout would be enforced, as that was the initial call by Kulpa. However, it should never have reached this point.

bob jenkins Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altor (Post 1042777)
No other takers. Thank you Bob.

Let's ask it a different way and see if anybody else wants to opine:
If you had started to ring up the batter, then stopped because of the HBP, would you change your call when it was brought to your attention: "You were going to call it a strike, you obviously thought it was in the zone. Rule 5.05(b)(2) says this should be a strike."

If a coach raises a rules issue, I am getting together with my partners to review the rule.

I don't know what was said in this instance, so I can't opine on the specifics here.

Altor Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1042784)
However, it should never have reached this point.

I don't disagree, but unfortunately it did, which is the premise of my question and you didn't answer it.

If this happens to you, do you change your call on the basis of a rules misapplication?

Altor Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1042792)
I don't know what was said in this instance, so I can't opine on the specifics here.

I don't know what was said either. I'm speculating what I would have said if I was Mattingly. He knows the strike zone is a judgement and can't be reviewed. He knows the attempt to avoid is judgement and can't be reviewed. BUT, it was obvious the umpire originally thought the ball was in the zone. That gives him rules backing to get the call overturned in my opinion.

robbie Mon Apr 12, 2021 05:52pm

I have only done girls fast pitch softball and at only at the travel level.

To the question of a protest:

If I were UIC at a tourney and was presented with the proposed protest, I would ask the Ump if it were in the zone. Assuming an honest answer, I would uphold the protest based on misapplication of the rule.
If the Ump lied or waivered or whatever and said "in my judgement it was a ball" i'd have to over rule the protest.

All that said, this is one on the most egregious Ump errors I have seen at the ML level.

How in the world didn't this discussion take place on the field?

thumpferee Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altor (Post 1042795)
If this happens to you, do you change your call on the basis of a rules misapplication?

Yes!

ilyazhito Tue Apr 13, 2021 01:27pm

I would call a strike, because the ball hit the batter in the strike zone. The batter would be out, and the next batter would come up to bat with 2 outs.


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