For the purposes of awarding bases on a ball thrown out of play. Is a catch comsidered the first play?'

R1, 0 out, Line drive (pop up, soft fly ball) to F6.
F6 makes the catch (1 out), F6 throws to F3 trying to get R1 before he returns to retouch 1st bas. Ball goes out of play.

Yep, tho' it really wouldn't matter in the instance you provide. R1 is awarded 2 bases from the last legally occupied base at the time of the throw, so put him on third.

Hugo,

From BRD, section 24,

""Off interp 12-24: "A play or attempted play...(original emphasis) shall be interperted as a legitimate effort by a defensive player who has possession of the ball to actually retire a runner. This may include an actual attempt to tag a runner, a fielder running toward a base with the ball in an attempt to force or tag a runner, or actually throwing to another defensive player in an attempt to retire a runner. A fake or a feint to throw shall not be deemed a play or an attempted play."....

From BRD, setion 25,

..."For purpose of measuing awards, the act of fielding is not a "play".
(end quotes)

Therefor the act of catching a ball, grounder or in flight, would not be a play. The fielder must then make some attempt to retire a runner after the catch.

3rd base would be the proper award for your R1, two bases from time of pitch.

Roger Greene,
Member UT

Edit: see also NAPBL section 3.1.

[Edited by Roger Greene on Nov 4th, 2000 at 05:49 PM]

John: A catch is not a play for purposes of determining the first play by an infielder. A fielder cannot <b>make a play</b> unless he is in possession of the ball.

You are right, though, that in Hugo's play, it doesn't matter. It's two bases measured from the time of the pitch: first goes to third.

Oops. Now that I've uncrossed my eyes, I can see I was incorrect. Hey, I'm an umpire. I'm only right 99% of the time!

Thanks for replies. I realize that it wouldn't have made a difference in the example I gave but it had come up in conversation. Thanks especially for the BRD and NAPBL references.

BTW, Roger, are the sections in BRD actually "setions" because the book was written by someone from Texas???
:-)

Hugo,

I quote Andrew Jackson, the great president from North Carolina (or maybe South Carolna, thats a bit fuzzy; and he probably should have been charged with crimes against humanity for the Trail of Tears):

"It's a narrow minded man who can only spell a word one way"

Roger Greene
(spelling and French were my worst subjects, but my French teacher was from Tennesee)
Member UT

Andrew Jackson
 

Hey Roger,

Comment ca va? Your French teacher and Andrew Jackson have something in common. Andy was from Tennessee too! He'd undoubtedly have something salty to say (in French or otherwise) about being thought to be from N.C.

Regardement,

Charlie Breuninger

Andy Jackson
 

Charlie,

Andy Jackson was born 3/15/1767 on a farm in Waxhaw settlement. No one is sure if the cabin was in NC or SC.
The farm was on both sides of the road that formed the border between the states. He joined the SC milita when he was 13years old after British Troops invaded SC in 1780.
After the war he taught school for a while, and was admitted to the NC Bar as an attorney in 1787, and in 1788 was appointed solicitor for the region in the western mountains that now forms Tennessee.

Tennesee was North Carolina at that time. However, his birthplace was in the area near present day Charlotte.

Roger Greene

Did he bat left or right? Can we get back to baseball?
Thanks...

Back to baseball: It's unlikely Andrew Jackson batted at all. Baseball was a townies game, and Andy was pure country. He died in 1845 (aged 78, pretty old for those days), only three years after the Knickerbocker Club in New York City arranged the first games using Alexander Cartwright's rules.

But IF Jackson did play "rounders," he would have batted left. He was, after all, the FIRST modern-day Democratic president.

Carl said
He was, after all, the FIRST modern-day Democratic president.

-----------------------------------------------------------

And the last good Democratic president save JFK.
JFK was ok only because he was Irish and he shook hands with me once.

You can convince me on alot of things Carl, but wanting Democrats in office ain't never gonna be one of them.

Don't ya just love an election year.

rex

Well, I shoook hands with Harry Truman. You'd have to offer me one John Kennedy, two Jimmy Carters, and one Bill Clinton for my Truman "card." I believe he was the greatest president of the 20th century, not because he shook hands with me (he was in his 80s), but because he made the key decisions that saved the world from totalitarianism after WW II. Bravo, Harry!

When Harry decided to drop "THe Bombs" he saved hundreds of thousands of American servicemen's lives. I personally know of some WWII Marines who were prepared to die if Japan had to be invaded. And also saved untold Japanese lives.

Bob

Same here...I THOUGHT I was wrong once. Turns out I was right. Guess I was wrong.

Vern