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SE Minnestoa Re Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:07pm

Weather
 
It is just lovely here in Minnesota today. Even in the southeast portion of the state, which is generally warmer than the rest of Minnesota, six to 15 inches of snow over the weekend. That follows a substantial snow on Easter weekend.

It appears ball will be shut down all week for sure. I have worked twice in April when I normally worked at least 10 times by now.

It is tough for AD's and umpires alike. One conference totally redid its schedule. The new schedule was supposed to kick in this week--that won't be happening.

Worst April in memory.

jTheUmp Tue Apr 17, 2018 08:45am

Hey, at least you got a couple of games in. I haven't had a game yet.

We've got about 15 inches of snow on the ground now, and another 1-3 inches of snow is forecast here tomorrow.

Maybe we'll get on the field in the later half of next week, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I have no idea how much our baseball/softball assigner gets paid, but I'm sure it's not enough for me to ever want that job.

Rich Tue Apr 17, 2018 09:08am

Well, I am the commissioner (I assign umpires, but it's quite a bit more than that) for a conference of 19 baseball schools and 20 softball schools, so let me tell you how it's going here:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArgh.

Thanks.

Truthfully, there's nothing I can do about this. 8 inches coming tomorrow to pile on top of the 6 already on the ground (and not melting). Warm temps not coming till Friday at the earliest, when the snow will melt and we'll have flooding. I can't imagine many of the fields will be playable for this week or next. Snow cover this week, swampland (from snow melting) next week.

We're likely going to adopt 5-inning DH for both baseball and softball. Our state allows this for softball and has issued a waiver for the NFHS rule that says all baseball DH must be 2 7-inning games.

An AD put forth an idea to rebuild the schedule -- an idea that I had as well. Instead of playing a double round robin, we'd go to a single round robin. No appetite for that yet, although last week a majority wanted to keep playing 14-inning DH.

My guess is that our postseason will not be moved, therefore we'll get in what we can. My priority is to ensure that we're able to crown conference champions with an equitable solution even if it means a reduced schedule.

CT1 Wed Apr 18, 2018 06:49am

Have any Northern states considered flip-flopping football & baseball seasons? Think about it.....

scrounge Wed Apr 18, 2018 07:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 1020874)
Have any Northern states considered flip-flopping football & baseball seasons? Think about it.....

Given that one is the major revenue sport for the school and the other is a cost drain, I doubt that thought will take very long to complete. :)

Rich Wed Apr 18, 2018 08:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrounge (Post 1020876)
Given that one is the major revenue sport for the school and the other is a cost drain, I doubt that thought will take very long to complete. :)

No sports are major revenue sports for small high schools.

This year is very, very different, for some reason. I hope it's an aberration. But as of right now, we've played 32 baseball/softball games out of 306 scheduled games. And our season ends on May 18.

And we're getting a pile of snow today.

bob jenkins Wed Apr 18, 2018 08:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 1020874)
Have any Northern states considered flip-flopping football & baseball seasons? Think about it.....

But then the baseball playoffs ae doing the worst (typically) weather.

Iowa plays in the summer instead of the spring to help with this problem (although I'm certain it creates some others).

Rich Wed Apr 18, 2018 09:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1020885)
But then the baseball playoffs ae doing the worst (typically) weather.

Iowa plays in the summer instead of the spring to help with this problem (although I'm certain it creates some others).

Our baseball schools here could choose spring or summer baseball. The number of summer programs has plummeted and they are eliminating it next year.

Most people want school sports during the school year. Kids/parents want to have an opportunity to play Legion or through some travel program.

CT1 Thu Apr 19, 2018 06:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1020885)
But then the baseball playoffs ae doing the worst (typically) weather.

You may be right, although I wouldn't think so.

Here, our regular season is about 2 months, with the state playoffs lasting another month. Assuming an early September start, that would put the championship games somewhere around Thanksgiving.

Also, the players would already be in shape for baseball, having played a summer schedule, which would cut down on the need for pre-season practice time.

bob jenkins Thu Apr 19, 2018 07:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 1020935)
You may be right, although I wouldn't think so.

Here, our regular season is about 2 months, with the state playoffs lasting another month. Assuming an early September start, that would put the championship games somewhere around Thanksgiving.

Also, the players would already be in shape for baseball, having played a summer schedule, which would cut down on the need for pre-season practice time.

I would think that in most areas we are talking about, the typical Thanksgiving weather is worse than the typical early June weather (which, I think, is when the state finals would typically be held).

SE Minnestoa Re Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:04am

Another 4 inches of snow yesterday. Just a lovely spring season.

Rich Ives Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:11am

Snow overnight.

udbrky Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:29am

Use the money from Spring Football for fall baseball. Accounting wise, it's accrued in the previous school year, but cash flow, put it in an interest bearing account and save for the fall/other sports.

Start in August, a week or two before school. We play just under 2 months, so it would be done mid-Oct.

Sectionals

Regionals

Semi-State

State.

Done 2nd week of November.


Isn't a single round round robin just a single elimination?

Rich Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:14pm

Nobody wants to play football in the spring.

Nobody wants to play baseball in the fall.

Next.

Altor Thu Apr 19, 2018 07:14pm

Game 7 of the World Series was scheduled for Nov 1 in 2017. You all are seriously suggesting high school kids want to play ball two weeks after that?!?!?

jTheUmp Fri Apr 20, 2018 09:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1020885)
Iowa plays in the summer instead of the spring to help with this problem (although I'm certain it creates some others).

I grew up in Iowa, so I can speak to this a little bit.

Pluses of high school summer baseball:
1) it allows athletes to participate in 4 school sports if they choose, which is a major plus for the smallest schools. At my high school it was: football or cross country, basketball or wrestling, track or golf, and baseball. On the girls side it was volleyball or cross country, basketball, track or golf, and softball. There would be a tiny bit of overlap between seasons, but usually only a week or two unless a particular team made a deep playoff run, which few of the teams at my high school ever managed to accomplish.

2) The weather is a lot better on both the temperature and precipitation fronts. Yeah, we'd get some evening thunderstorms, but in most cases our fields would be good-to-go by the next evening.

3) Longer daylight hours mean you can start a doubleheader at 4 or 5 pm and finish before sundown, even on a field without lights.



Minuses of high school summer baseball:
1) It interferes with summer jobs and family vacations.

2) It's incompatible with travel ball/legion ball. Neither of those were a thing for high school aged kids in Iowa when I was growing up, where in MN it's quite popular.

3) You end up in a situation where a student has already graduated, but is still on the baseball team. This happens with spring baseball too, but only for a couple of weeks rather than for the bulk of the season.

4) You end up with some graduated students deciding not to play baseball in their senior season for any number of reasons. In my case, I knew I was going to be playing football in college, so I skipped my senior baseball season to spend more time running and lifting weights. Of course, I wasn't that good at baseball anyway, so it was a pretty easy decision to make.

CT1 Fri Apr 20, 2018 03:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1020948)
Nobody wants to play football in the spring.

Nobody wants to play baseball in the fall.

Next.

Why not? If it weren't for "tradition", we in the South would already be doing just that.

Why? Few (if any) heat-related illnesses or deaths for football players. Few (if any) cold-weather related arm injuries for pitchers.

Everybody I talk to around here agrees with me. Unfortunately, they're not in a position to make such a drastic change.

Rich Fri Apr 20, 2018 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 1020981)
Why not? If it weren't for "tradition", we in the South would already be doing just that.

Why? Few (if any) heat-related illnesses or deaths for football players. Few (if any) cold-weather related arm injuries for pitchers.

Everybody I talk to around here agrees with me. Unfortunately, they're not in a position to make such a drastic change.

Tradition means something, obviously.

thumpferee Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:25pm

Times are changing! If we fail to change with them, we are destined to repeat the past!

Did I read that in a fortune cookie?

bob jenkins Sat Apr 21, 2018 07:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1020987)
Times are changing! If we fail to change with them, we are destined to repeat the past!

Did I read that in a fortune cookie?

If you keep going to Chinese restaurants, you'll read it again.

LRZ Sat Apr 21, 2018 07:18am

"It was so cold...."
"How cold was it?"

I posted elsewhere about a 10 y/o travel game I worked yesterday where one team's F6 started crying because he was so cold and had to be taken out. Then, when that team came to bat, three kids refused to take their turn at the plate and stayed on the bench under a blanket.

mattmets Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:31pm

Currently work in Iowa, so if I may chime in...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 1020974)
I grew up in Iowa, so I can speak to this a little bit.

Pluses of high school summer baseball:
1) it allows athletes to participate in 4 school sports if they choose, which is a major plus for the smallest schools.

Definitely a plus. Some 1A schools who bring 10-12 kids to a game couldn't during the spring.

2) The weather is a lot better on both the temperature and precipitation fronts. Yeah, we'd get some evening thunderstorms, but in most cases our fields would be good-to-go by the next evening.

It's hot as hell, though, and the humidity doesn't help. I've been fortunate over the last seven years, never had that much rain and almost never two straight days

3) Longer daylight hours mean you can start a doubleheader at 4 or 5 pm and finish before sundown, even on a field without lights.

Almost everything I work starts at 5 or 5:30 PM and we get into the second game with daylight left. We can also play mornings, so umpires can get a lot more games with 10:30 and 5:00 start times.


Minuses of high school summer baseball:
1) It interferes with summer jobs and family vacations.

At least in our association, we have a ton of teachers. If anything else, it helps our numbers compared to basketball season, which often has 4/4:30 starts.

2) It's incompatible with travel ball/legion ball. Neither of those were a thing for high school aged kids in Iowa when I was growing up, where in MN it's quite popular.

Yup.

3) You end up in a situation where a student has already graduated, but is still on the baseball team. This happens with spring baseball too, but only for a couple of weeks rather than for the bulk of the season.

Also yup, but never heard of it being an issue with anything except college orientation.

4) You end up with some graduated students deciding not to play baseball in their senior season for any number of reasons. In my case, I knew I was going to be playing football in college, so I skipped my senior baseball season to spend more time running and lifting weights. Of course, I wasn't that good at baseball anyway, so it was a pretty easy decision to make.

Honestly haven't heard much of this, but I'm sure it happens.

I grew up in Connecticut and played a 20-game season from early April to late May in some rough weather. I'd much rather work the way I do in the summer here, even though it was a culture shock initially.

Rich Ives Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1020983)
Tradition means something, obviously.

See "Fiddler on the Roof" to see how traditions can meet change (with difficulty but change can triumph). :)

jTheUmp Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:07am

Finally got a game in last night (on a fully-turf field).

I also learned three things from the visiting HC:
1) apparently if a catcher scoops a 3rd strike cleanly off the ground, it's not a dropped third strike.
2) If the catcher then sails the subsequent throw to first high enough that the first baseman has to jump to get it, if he's standing on the base when he jumps, then catches the ball and lands with his closest foot 18 inches from the base, the batter-runner should be out "because he was on the base when he jumped".
3) If I call an infield fly but he doesn't hear it because of crowd noise (and I don't have a quiet voice), it's somehow my fault if the second baseman accidentally drops the ball and R2 subsequently gets tagged out between 2nd and 3rd.

SE Minnestoa Re Tue May 01, 2018 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 1021114)
Finally got a game in last night (on a fully-turf field).

I also learned three things from the visiting HC:
1) apparently if a catcher scoops a 3rd strike cleanly off the ground, it's not a dropped third strike.
2) If the catcher then sails the subsequent throw to first high enough that the first baseman has to jump to get it, if he's standing on the base when he jumps, then catches the ball and lands with his closest foot 18 inches from the base, the batter-runner should be out "because he was on the base when he jumped".
3) If I call an infield fly but he doesn't hear it because of crowd noise (and I don't have a quiet voice), it's somehow my fault if the second baseman accidentally drops the ball and R2 subsequently gets tagged out between 2nd and 3rd.

It's good you learnt something. Coaches can be so helpful. :D


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