The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Baseball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/)
-   -   Balk?? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/103458-balk.html)

Umonblue Fri Feb 02, 2018 08:03am

Balk??
 
Scenario: Runner on 1st and 3rd with a Right handed Pitcher in the set position. As the Pitcher is ready to come to the plate, runner on 1st takes off... the pitcher then does the spin mode where he kicks his leg and left knee points toward 2nd and stops his delivery to try to get the runner going to 2nd...wouldn't this be a Balk? I heard different answers to this but not any clarity. I always believed you cannot throw to an unoccupied base but someone said they heard as long as the pitcher is making a play he can do this...I thought he would have to step off the pitchers plate in order to make a play on this runner and not be in motion in his delivery to the plate then all of a sudden do the typical "spin move" as if there was someone on 2nd Base leading off. Any help???

bob jenkins Fri Feb 02, 2018 08:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umonblue (Post 1016164)
I always believed you cannot throw to an unoccupied base but someone said they heard as long as the pitcher is making a play he can do this

"someone" is right.

I'm having trouble following the rest of your description, but if the move would have been legal with an R2, then it's legal with an R1 attempting to advance (and, in FED, even if R1 is feinting an advance the move is legal. OBR does not contain those words, the effect is the same at all the levels we do).

That said, it's very difficult for a pitcher to change his mind mid-stream without balking.

Umonblue Fri Feb 02, 2018 08:39am

Balk?
 
So as the right handed pitcher who's in a stretched position is getting ready to throw to the batter lifts his left leg (as if he is going to deliver the pitch to the batter) then spins toward 2nd to throw (essentially stops his motion) because the runner from 1st Base was going... this is legal?

LRZ Fri Feb 02, 2018 08:47am

Look at the Comment to Rule 5.07(a)(1):
From the Windup Position, the pitcher may:
(A) deliver the ball to the batter, or
(B) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick-off a runner, or
(C) disengage the rubber (if he does he must drop his hand to his sides).

bob jenkins Fri Feb 02, 2018 08:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umonblue (Post 1016171)
So as the right handed pitcher who's in a stretched position is getting ready to throw to the batter lifts his left leg (as if he is going to deliver the pitch to the batter) then spins toward 2nd to throw (essentially stops his motion) because the runner from 1st Base was going... this is legal?

So as the right handed pitcher who's in a stretched position notices R2 taking a large leadi lifts his left leg then spins toward 2nd to throw, this is legal?

(And, to be clear, the answer is YES in both cases).

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey by lifts his leg as if he is going to deliver a pitch" -- how that is separated from "lifts his leg as if he is going to throw to second",

And, I am not sure what you are trying to convey by "essentially stops his motion" -- any reversal or stop would be a balk, but I don't think that's what you really mean.

Umonblue Fri Feb 02, 2018 09:08am

Balk?
 
This has nothing to do with a runner leading off 2nd it has everything to do with a runner on 3rd base and a runner on 1st base and the Pitcher in the STRETCH position (not wind up) Pitcher is in his motion on delivering the pitch to the batter when the Defense yells "runner going" he then instead of continuing delivering the pitch home, the Pitcher abruptly spins toward 2nd to make a play on the runner.
I have had different answers one saying it is a Balk because 2nd base was not occupied and then another response saying it is not a Balk because Pitcher can legally spin to make a play on the runner from 1st going to 2nd. I am leaning towards the 1st response as it being a Balk.

LRZ Fri Feb 02, 2018 09:14am

"it is a Balk because 2nd base was not occupied"

No, wrong.

LRZ Fri Feb 02, 2018 09:28am

Rule 6.02(a) talks about balks while a pitcher is touching the pitching rubber, without distinguishing between wind-up and set position. Rule 6.02(a)(4) allows what you describe; look at the comment that follows:

It is a balk when
(4) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

Rule 6.02 (a)(4) Comment (Rule 8.05(d ) Comment): When determining whether the pitcher throws or feints a throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making a play, the umpire should consider whether a runner on the previous base demonstrates or otherwise creates an impression of his intent to
advance to such unoccupied base.

umpjim Fri Feb 02, 2018 09:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umonblue (Post 1016174)
This has nothing to do with a runner leading off 2nd it has everything to do with a runner on 3rd base and a runner on 1st base and the Pitcher in the STRETCH position (not wind up) Pitcher is in his motion on delivering the pitch to the batter when the Defense yells "runner going" he then instead of continuing delivering the pitch home, the Pitcher abruptly spins toward 2nd to make a play on the runner.
I have had different answers one saying it is a Balk because 2nd base was not occupied and then another response saying it is not a Balk because Pitcher can legally spin to make a play on the runner from 1st going to 2nd. I am leaning towards the 1st response as it being a Balk.

If you lean that way you will fall over. The rule states that the pitcher, in contact with his plate, cannot throw or feint to an unoccupied base, EXCEPT for the purpose of making a play. Throwing to an unoccupied base to get an advancing runner, drive back an advancing runner, get or drive back a runner who has demonstrated or created the impression of his intent to advance is a purpose of making a play.

bob jenkins Fri Feb 02, 2018 09:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umonblue (Post 1016174)
This has nothing to do with a runner leading off 2nd

I understand the play is different -- but the rule is the same. If the move would have been legal with R2, then it's legal with R1 stealing. If not, then not.

Quote:

I have had different answers one saying it is a Balk because 2nd base was not occupied and then another response saying it is not a Balk because Pitcher can legally spin to make a play on the runner from 1st going to 2nd. I am leaning towards the 1st response as it being a Balk.
Three things:

1) Get a rule book or look it up on line
2) Read the rule -- the entire rule -- do not stop after the first clause
3) Lean the other way

Rich Ives Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umonblue (Post 1016174)
This has nothing to do with a runner leading off 2nd it has everything to do with a runner on 3rd base and a runner on 1st base and the Pitcher in the STRETCH position (not wind up) Pitcher is in his motion on delivering the pitch to the batter when the Defense yells "runner going" he then instead of continuing delivering the pitch home, the Pitcher abruptly spins toward 2nd to make a play on the runner.
I have had different answers one saying it is a Balk because 2nd base was not occupied and then another response saying it is not a Balk because Pitcher can legally spin to make a play on the runner from 1st going to 2nd. I am leaning towards the 1st response as it being a Balk.

Sorry that your runner got thrown out. :)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1