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yankeesfan Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:55pm

Balk
 
OBR. Bases loaded. Pitcher in windup with both feet on the rubber. He touches his hat before he starts his motion. Umpire calls balk. Is this correct?


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bob jenkins Tue Jun 13, 2017 08:39am

If his hands were joined, and he separated his hands (to touch his hat) and didn't continue a motion to pitch, then it's a balk.

Rich Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:01am

Right. Once his hands are together, I expect him to disengage legally if he wants to adjust his cap.

MT 73 Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:52am

Thanks.
I was not too sure about that one.

umpjim Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1006880)
If his hands were joined for more than a moment, and he separated his hands (to touch his hat) and didn't continue a motion to pitch, then it's a balk.

Red added at least in OBR.

JJ Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:41pm

If a pitcher in the windup position reaches up to adjust his cap, or scratch his ear, or brush away a bug, I have nothing UNLESS the motion I see can be construed as the beginning of his pitching motion. The movement of his arm alone would not cause me to call a balk. In the windup position.

JJ

MT 73 Wed Jun 14, 2017 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ (Post 1006960)
If a pitcher in the windup position reaches up to adjust his cap, or scratch his ear, or brush away a bug, I have nothing UNLESS the motion I see can be construed as the beginning of his pitching motion. The movement of his arm alone would not cause me to call a balk. In the windup position.

JJ

Similar to the pitcher momentarily breaking his hands to quickly adjust the ball in his glove?

bob jenkins Wed Jun 14, 2017 03:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT 73 (Post 1006964)
Similar to the pitcher momentarily breaking his hands to quickly adjust the ball in his glove?

I don't think you "momentarily break" your hands to adjust the ball -- I think you "momentarily join" the hands to adjust the ball. And, it's not what I was talking about above.

JJ Wed Jun 14, 2017 06:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1006880)
If his hands were joined, and he separated his hands (to touch his hat) and didn't continue a motion to pitch, then it's a balk.

I'm visualizing the pitcher on the rubber, looking in for the sign or just standing on the rubber BEFORE bringing his hands together at the beginning of his windup (in other words, standing there with his hands apart), and then he reaches up to adjust his hat (or scratch his ear, or brush away a bug).
I would not automatically call a balk.

JJ

bob jenkins Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ (Post 1006973)
I'm visualizing the pitcher on the rubber, looking in for the sign or just standing on the rubber BEFORE bringing his hands together at the beginning of his windup (in other words, standing there with his hands apart), and then he reaches up to adjust his hat (or scratch his ear, or brush away a bug).
I would not automatically call a balk.

JJ

I agree, that's not a balk.

I was envisioning the pitcher standing there, with his hands together (more than needed to momentarily adjust the ball), either before or after getting the sign, and then reaches up to adjust his hat (or scratch his ear, or brush away a bug).
That is a balk.

JJ Sat Jun 17, 2017 08:28am

Agreed. Once he brings his hand together he'd better either start his motion or step off. Separating his hands would be a balk.

JJ

Middleman Wed Jun 21, 2017 04:44pm

Not a balk
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1006880)
If his hands were joined, and he separated his hands (to touch his hat) and didn't continue a motion to pitch, then it's a balk.

What rule set are you using? This is legal in FED, as long as the movement is "not associated with the pitch."

See Casebook 6.1.2 Situation D.

Rich Wed Jun 21, 2017 05:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Middleman (Post 1007163)
What rule set are you using? This is legal in FED, as long as the movement is "not associated with the pitch."

See Casebook 6.1.2 Situation D.

Look at situation F. Once the hands are together (and not just to momentarily adjust the ball), he can disengage or pitch. That's it.

bob jenkins Thu Jun 22, 2017 08:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Middleman (Post 1007163)
What rule set are you using? This is legal in FED, as long as the movement is "not associated with the pitch."

See Casebook 6.1.2 Situation D.

I was assuming OBR, as specified in the OP. This particular ruling, though, is (substantially) the same.

In the case you cite, we must assume that the hands were not yet joined, otherwise the separation would be a "movement associated with the pitch."

See also rule 2-Pitch where "any movement" after the hands are joined is the TOP.


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