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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 11:42am
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rectifiable

Fed Rules permit umpires to rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision has placed either team at a disadvantage. However I know of at least one occasion where umpires have found what occurred not rectifiable. The Home team is batting in second to last inning and the Visiting team is up by 1 run. Bases are loaded with 2 outs. The field is unusual in the since that because space around the park is limited, so the netting extends from the area behind home plate all the way around to encompass the entire dirt infield. Batter hits a foul ball behind 1b. Everybody and his brother would have sworn on their mother’s graves that the trajectory of the foul ball was not only going to but would have to touch the extended netting. PU immediately calls batted ball dead. Ball comes as close to netting as possible without touching before being caught by F3. Yes he made a premature call mistake but I am telling you it was an act of God that this ball did not touch the netting. You guessed what happens on the next pitch, Batter hits a base clearing triple. Defensive coach argues that 3rd out should have been recorded on the foul ball caught by F3. Contrite PU explains that a Dead Ball cannot be made live again under any circumstances. Defensive coach argues that allowing the catch and out would not prejudice the offense since none of the base runners could legally have advanced on the play. To no avail, umpire tells coach the call even though wrong is just not rectifiable. I have repeated this story to several umpires and to date it is unanimous that the Dead Ball could not be made Live under any circumstances, despite the language “rectify any situation”. Would like to hear from the forum umpires.
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:08pm
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This is one of the few cases where an erroneous foul call can be reversed since the ball never touched the ground.

Rule 2-16-1:

A foul ball is a batted ball:

e. that touches the ground after inadvertently being declared foul by an umpire.

Case Play 5.1.1 Situation A, B and C all help support this ruling.

The defensive coach has a legitimate argument and that should be reversed for an out.
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benchcoach View Post
I have repeated this story to several umpires and to date it is unanimous that the Dead Ball could not be made Live under any circumstances, despite the language “rectify any situation”.
I agree with Welpe -- the catch should have been allowed and the ball should have remained live.

So now it's unanimous here (so far)
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:51pm
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Question from a basketball guy. Should this have been "rectified" immediately rather than after the ensuing base hit?
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benchcoach View Post
Fed Rules permit umpires to rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision has placed either team at a disadvantage. However I know of at least one occasion where umpires have found what occurred not rectifiable. The Home team is batting in second to last inning and the Visiting team is up by 1 run. Bases are loaded with 2 outs. The field is unusual in the since that because space around the park is limited, so the netting extends from the area behind home plate all the way around to encompass the entire dirt infield. Batter hits a foul ball behind 1b. Everybody and his brother would have sworn on their mother’s graves that the trajectory of the foul ball was not only going to but would have to touch the extended netting. PU immediately calls batted ball dead. Ball comes as close to netting as possible without touching before being caught by F3. Yes he made a premature call mistake but I am telling you it was an act of God that this ball did not touch the netting. You guessed what happens on the next pitch, Batter hits a base clearing triple. Defensive coach argues that 3rd out should have been recorded on the foul ball caught by F3. Contrite PU explains that a Dead Ball cannot be made live again under any circumstances. Defensive coach argues that allowing the catch and out would not prejudice the offense since none of the base runners could legally have advanced on the play. To no avail, umpire tells coach the call even though wrong is just not rectifiable. I have repeated this story to several umpires and to date it is unanimous that the Dead Ball could not be made Live under any circumstances, despite the language “rectify any situation”. Would like to hear from the forum umpires.
That's wrong - you can advance on a caught foul ball.
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
That's wrong - you can advance on a caught foul ball.
Yes, but -- "Bases are loaded with 2 outs."
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
That's wrong - you can advance on a caught foul ball.
I think he's referring to the catch being the third out in the OP.
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 01:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Question from a basketball guy. Should this have been "rectified" immediately rather than after the ensuing base hit?
I don't have a rules cite handy for this, but yes, you'd have to rectify this situation immediately.
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 02:08pm
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Thanks for all the useful replies. Based on previous times I had posed this question, I would have bet the answers would have gone the other way. Just goes to show "Ya never know."
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Old Fri Apr 22, 2016, 10:22pm
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To those who would rectify, would it make a difference if there where less than 2 outs since the offense coach could argue he would have had R1 at 3b tag an attempt to score had he thought the ball was live?
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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 02:16pm
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No, no difference on number of outs. Under FED rules, if the umpire declares a ball foul that is then caught legally, the batter is out and the ball remains live.

Since the ball remains live, the runners may advance.
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Old Sat Apr 23, 2016, 10:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john5396 View Post
No, no difference on number of outs. Under FED rules, if the umpire declares a ball foul that is then caught legally, the batter is out and the ball remains live.

Since the ball remains live, the runners may advance.
Rule/case play plz!
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 07:06am
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I believe y'all are missing the fact that the defensive coach's argument came *after* another pitch was made.
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 07:55am
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Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
rule/case play plz!
2.16.1
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Old Sun Apr 24, 2016, 07:57am
JJ JJ is offline
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It would have to be rectified before the next pitch. Much bigger can of worms could/would ensue if you waited.
If you waited, how many pitches could you let go before you changed the play? How many batters? How many innings?
Gotta do it immediately or not at all.

JJ
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